How long before Irish reunification?

downcow

blinding wrote: »

You are the Irish part of Northern Irish. Do you deny that you were born on the Island of Ireland ( if you were ) ? ?

So does that make Canadians Americans - or is this just more hypocrisy?

downcow

eagle eye wrote: »

I did say if you were born on the island you are Irish whether that be Irish or Northern Irish. You have the right to call yourself one or both. I don't agree that you are British though. You are a Unionist, that's not a place though it's a multi-state organisation and you are perfectly entitled to believe in that.
Britain though is the island that encompasses Scotland, England and Wales. Northern Ireland is not part of that.

I think you will find the United Nations, International Law, and the British embassies abroad will disagree totally with you - but sure you probably know best

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

If they want to refer to themselves as British, its no skin off anyone's nose, though going back to referring to themselves as Ulster-Scots might be a better description as no one will dispute that with them in the event of a UI and it would distinguish them as having a different identity to people who consider themselves to be just Irish.

Look at how the Anglo-Irish fit in here.

Now you are really getting mixed up. A huge number of the Unionists living in Northern Ireland are not of Ulster Scots descent. The Ulster Scots are mainly the Presbyterians. Few of the Anglicans are Ulster Scots.
This is entirely different from being British. You will find almost all Unionists in Northern Ireland refer to themselves as British, but I am not sure even 50% would refer to themselves as Ulster Scots..

So I know you are trying again and again to get the people who have lived on this island for at least 400 years to fit into your little box, so that it is nice and tidy and works for you. Some day you will wake up and have your cornflakes

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

Rest of U.K. aren’t automatically entitled to an Irish passport or born on the island of Ireland. This is basic stuff Rob.

So are you telling me that if the French government offered everyone in Northern Ireland a French passport if they wanted one. You would then tell us we were all definitely French?
It really is irrelevant to me what the ROI government offer me with regard to passports. It does not change who I am

RobMc59

10-15 years

jm08 wrote: »

If they want to refer to themselves as British, its no skin off anyone's nose, though going back to referring to themselves as Ulster-Scots might be a better description as no one will dispute that with them in the event of a UI and it would distinguish them as having a different identity to people who consider themselves to be just Irish.

Look at how the Anglo-Irish fit in here.

What does that mean?

yrreg0850

To answer the original question -- Never

As things stand the vast majority of people both North and South have no problem with each other .
It is only certain politicians who are trying to justify their existence .

Also, can the South afford the millions that would be needed to replace what London puts into the North.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

Didn't we do this all a few thousand posts back?

(Almost) everyone on here claims to be a firm supporter of the GFA. That gives Downcow the right to identify as Irish OR British, or both. Both governments agreed to this, as did the people of both states.

Despite the British government's poor handling of the DeSouza case, this either or both is a fundamental strand of the GFA, which should be respected.

71% of voters in NI and 96% in Ireland supported it, so lets not devolve back into the nastiness of undermining it.

I fully support and stand behind Downcow's right to identify as solely British, and I would expect to receive the same respect for my stance that I am absolutely not British.

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

So are you telling me that if the French government offered everyone in Northern Ireland a French passport if they wanted one. You would then tell us we were all definitely French?
It really is irrelevant to me what the ROI government offer me with regard to passports. It does not change who I am

Any time I have met a Scottish English or welsh person, they never define themselves as British. Just scots or welsh or English. As Brexit is proving there really is no British identity. It’s just a catch all phrase for a union of countries.

Northern Ireland to me means people who are Irish from the north of this island. I was watching the 82 World Cup game between Spain and the north and the bbc commentator kept calling you the irish. That and the tricolour as the flag would have had you in despair Downcow.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Didn't we do this all a few thousand posts back?

(Almost) everyone on here claims to be a firm supporter of the GFA. That gives Downcow the right to identify as Irish OR British, or both. Both governments agreed to this, as did the people of both states.

Despite the British government's poor handling of the DeSouza case, this either or both is a fundamental strand of the GFA, which should be respected.

71% of voters in NI and 96% in Ireland supported it, so lets not devolve back into the nastiness of undermining it.

I fully support and stand behind Downcow's right to identify as solely British, and I would expect to receive the same respect for my stance that I am absolutely not British.

absolutely. In my eyes you are Irish

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

Any time I have met a Scottish English or welsh person, they never define themselves as British. Just scots or welsh or English. As Brexit is proving there really is no British identity. It’s just a catch all phrase for a union of countries.

Northern Ireland to me means people who are Irish from the north of this island. I was watching the 82 World Cup game between Spain and the north and the bbc commentator kept calling you the irish. That and the tricolour as the flag would have had you in despair Downcow.

Munster legend. You are demonstrating that you just don't get it.
I describe myself as Northern Irish in exactly the same way as someone from England, Scotland and Wales. But the vast majority of us are also very proud of our Britishness.
When my football team are playing I am Northern Irish (and still British), on remembrance Sunday I am British (and still Northern Irish). I don't expect you to fully get it as you are clearly neither.

FrancieBrady

munsterlegend wrote: »

Any time I have met a Scottish English or welsh person, they never define themselves as British. Just scots or welsh or English. As Brexit is proving there really is no British identity. It’s just a catch all phrase for a union of countries.

Northern Ireland to me means people who are Irish from the north of this island. I was watching the 82 World Cup game between Spain and the north and the bbc commentator kept calling you the irish. That and the tricolour as the flag would have had you in despair Downcow.

Simple fact is, as long as the landmass is called Ireland, anyone born on it is Irish.
If they want to identify as British work away, it doesn't bother me.

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

Any time I have met a Scottish English or welsh person, they never define themselves as British. Just scots or welsh or English. As Brexit is proving there really is no British identity. It’s just a catch all phrase for a union of countries.

Northern Ireland to me means people who are Irish from the north of this island. I was watching the 82 World Cup game between Spain and the north and the bbc commentator kept calling you the irish. That and the tricolour as the flag would have had you in despair Downcow.

Just thinking and trying to help you.

I gues you regard yourself as both a Munsterman and an Irishman. Saying you are a munsterman doesnt diminish your Irishness, and saying you are an Irish man does not diminish your love for munster.
I would guess that if Munster were playing in the all Ireland, you would be a munster man that day, but still of course Irish. And I guess if ROI were playing football you would be an Irish man first and foremost.

I am struggling to see your difficulty with getting your head around this

munsterlegend

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Simple fact is, as long as the landmass is called Ireland, anyone born on it is Irish.
If they want to identify as British work away, it doesn't bother me.

Yep. You can call yourself a Martian if you want but as you say the Island of Ireland is Irish.

jm08

20-30 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

[/B]

What does that mean?

That there is a class of people in Ireland who remained in Ireland despite it becoming a republic but who retain much of their English heritage but consider themselves to be Irish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Irish_people

For example, Henry, the Earl of Mount Charles, who went to Harrow and who used his home, Slane Castle for rock concerts. He contested a seat for Fine Gael in an election and I think he was also a member of the Senate at one stage.

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

Just thinking and trying to help you.

I gues you regard yourself as both a Munsterman and an Irishman. Saying you are a munsterman doesnt diminish your Irishness, and saying you are an Irish man does not diminish your love for munster.
I would guess that if Munster were playing in the all Ireland, you would be a munster man that day, but still of course Irish. And I guess if ROI were playing football you would be an Irish man first and foremost.

I am struggling to see your difficulty with getting your head around this

Well all i feel is pity for a lad who lives on the island and thinks Munster can play in the biggest sporting event on this island every year.

Hamsterchops

munsterlegend wrote: »

Yep. You can call yourself a Martian if you want but as you say the Island of Ireland is Irish.

Unless you're born in Northern Ireland (UK) in which case you're automatically British

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Unless you're born in Northern Ireland (UK) in which case you're automatically British

You have to choose to identify as British.
You don't choose what landmass you are born on.

Like North Americans can be American's or Canadians...they are still North Americans.

RobMc59

10-15 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Unless you're born in Northern Ireland (UK) in which case you're automatically British

Yes and even Ireland acknowledges that NI is part of the UK.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

downcow wrote:

I think you will find the United Nations, International Law, and the British embassies abroad will disagree totally with you - but sure you probably know best

Well I would say that there are some me dumbasses making decisions these days.
If you are born on an island that's where you come from.
I have no say issue with you calling yourself British but I think it's incorrect, calling yourself Northern Irish seems right to me or just simply Irish.
I don't see that as affecting your union standing in any way.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have to choose to identify as British.
You don't choose what landmass you are born on.

Like North Americans can be American's or Canadians...they are still North Americans.

So what is the DeSouza (sic) all about and what is the current legal status of those born in NI?

munsterlegend

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Unless you're born in Northern Ireland (UK) in which case you're automatically British

You can call yourself individually whatever you want but the Island is Ireland.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

So what is the DeSouza (sic) all about and what is the current legal status of those born in NI?

The DeSouza case is about your right to 'identify'.
It has nothing to do with where you are born.
The GFA allows the people of Northern Ireland the right to identify legally as Irish or British. The British are not allowing her to identify legally as Irish causing a crisis for the GFA.

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

Now you are really getting mixed up. A huge number of the Unionists living in Northern Ireland are not of Ulster Scots descent. The Ulster Scots are mainly the Presbyterians. Few of the Anglicans are Ulster Scots.

Anglicans are Anglo-Irish.

They [Anglo Irish] mostly belong to the Anglican Church of Ireland, which was the established church of Ireland until 1871, or to a lesser extent one of the English dissenting churches, such as the Methodist church, though some were Roman Catholics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Irish_people

This is entirely different from being British. You will find almost all Unionists in Northern Ireland refer to themselves as British, but I am not sure even 50% would refer to themselves as Ulster Scots..

The use of British is relatively new though. Ulster was the identifier - i.e., ''Ulster will fight and Ulster will be Right''. You referred to yourselves as Ulstermen up to the abolition of the Stormont Government I think and after that started using British, and more recently Northern Irish.

edit: Here is a speech by Edward Carson in the House of Commons. See how he refers to Britain.

But I say to my Ulster friends, and I say it with all sincerity and solemnity: Do not be led into any such false line. Stick to your old ideals of closer and closer connection with this country. The Coalition Government, after all, is not the British nation, and the British nation will certainly see you righted. Your interests lie with Great Britain. You have helped her, and you have helped her Empire, and her Empire belongs just as much to you as it does to England. Stick to it, and trust the British people.

So I know you are trying again and again to get the people who have lived on this island for at least 400 years to fit into your little box, so that it is nice and tidy and works for you. Some day you will wake up and have your cornflakes

Are you trying to abandon your Scottish/Anglo heritage DC?

Whats your problem with actually acknowledging your actual heritage which I thought you were proud of?

FrancieBrady

The only people confused about this are some people who actually live here. Trust me, go anywhere in the world and you'll be seen as Irish...you will have to tell people you identify as British...even in Britain.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The DeSouza case is about your right to 'identify'.
It has nothing to do with where you are born.
The GFA allows the people of North Ireland the right to identify legally as Irish or British. The British are not allowing her to identify legally as Irish causing a crisis for the GFA.

So DC is factually correct.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

So DC is factually correct.

How so...has the name of the island changed?
Downcow choose his identity...he could change it in the morning, as I could change mine to British.

I would still be Irish though because I was born on an island called Ireland.

Unionists had no issue with this until the conflict/war, I am not sure why they are now in denial...I think it is the insecurity thing...they eschew anything Irish, the flag, anthem, language.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

In the census a large majority of Unionists described themselves as 'British Only' despite living in Ireland for generations. That shows the level of hatred for anything 'native' Irish and its hard to imagine it doesn't include a awful lot of bitterness derived from being a people without a country.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The only people confused about this are some people who actually live here. Trust me, go anywhere in the world and you'll be seen as Irish...you will have to tell people you identify as British...even in Britain.

The payslip in sterling for the SF MLA's i'm sure is a painful reminder of the reality of the situation.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

The payslip in sterling for the SF MLA's i'm sure is a painful reminder of the reality of the situation.

Do you believe we were all British then, up to independence?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do you believe we were all British then, up to independence?

It's a loaded question but i will answer if you concede that DC was factually correct in his assertion.