How long before Irish reunification?

munsterlegend

Runaways wrote: »

All over northern Irish Twitter this morning the usual Unionist mouthpiece hpieces are somehow blaming this east west border on Sinn Fein and it was a goal of nationalism apparently

None of them have mentioned it was aarlenne And her stubbornness and incompetence and lack of vision actually brought this about somehow it’s a big nationalist plot nothing to do with Boris Johnson

Unionists are like the pope. Infallibility is their cornerstone.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I remember well after the last census this very discussion on the radio with Pat Kenny, who tore the whole (I can speak Irish) argument to pieces in that anybody who wanted Irish to survive ticked the Yes box.

I want Irish to continue, but if ticked the Yes box I would be telling an untruth, although that's what many people do anyway.

I am for retaining the Irish language, but not under artificial means.

Most Irish people have some Irish.
The fair way to do it would be a 'what level of Irish have you'.

For me answering No would be a lie, because I can speak it, but not to native speaker level. I can also read it to a fairly good standard.

FrancieBrady

Runaways wrote: »

All over northern Irish Twitter this morning the usual Unionist mouthpiece hpieces are somehow blaming this east west border on Sinn Fein and it was a goal of nationalism apparently

None of them have mentioned it was aarlenne And her stubbornness and incompetence and lack of vision actually brought this about somehow it’s a big nationalist plot nothing to do with Boris Johnson

I'm seeing nothing by way of what action they are going to take to overturn it.

They were told things would move on again without them, and here we are.

munsterlegend

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Most Irish people have some Irish.
The fair way to do it would be a 'what level of Irish have you'.

For me answering No would be a lie, because I can speak it, but not to native speaker level. I can also read it to a fairly good standard.

It’s not all about speaking. I would have been quite proficient and when someone speaks to me would have very good understanding though speaking it I wouldn’t as fluent nowadays.

munsterlegend

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm seeing nothing by way of what action they are going to take to overturn it.

They were told things would move on again without them, and here we are.

What can they do? Shafted by tories with a huge majority. Ben Lowry will write a piece in the newsletter. Jim Allister will say bring down mandatory coalition. Jamie will have a meeting or two claiming it was a huge success. DUP will keep mute.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

A students vote is a vote, worth exactly the same as anyone else's. Do you want to take it off them just because they use it in a way you don't want them too?

Where did I say that?
You find things in posts that are not there. It was a simple explanation of the big change. Normally general elections in this country are held on a weekday. Students don't get the chance to vote because they are registered at home and away in college.
How do you make that out as me wanting to take their vote away?
Of course SF supporters have a habit of accusing others falsely.

FrancieBrady

munsterlegend wrote: »

What can they do? Shafted by tories with a huge majority. Ben Lowry will write a piece in the newsletter. Jim Allister will say bring down mandatory coalition. Jamie will have a meeting or two claiming it was a huge success. DUP will keep mute.

True so far about the DUP...not a word on their tweet machine about it. A bitter statement on Gerry's win in the Supreme Court though from Gregory Campbell., completely missing the irony (although I doubt he missed it tbh) in taking comfort in the rightness of the government to be subject to the rule of the law. Would that they had been when it was important.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

Where did I say that?
You find things in posts that are not there. It was a simple explanation of the big change. Normally general elections in this country are held on a weekday. Students don't get the chance to vote because they are registered at home and away in college.
How do you make that out as me wanting to take their vote away?
Of course SF supporters have a habit of accusing others falsely.

Because you are trivialising the vote as a 'protest vote'.

It was the vote of the electorate, end of. Stop diminishing it by making excuses.

If the electorate are 'disillusioned' they aren't faking it and it most certainly is wrong to trivialise or criticise them for wanting to change.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

If the electorate are 'disillusioned' they aren't faking it and it most certainly is wrong to trivialise or criticise them for wanting to change.

I just laid out very basically how SF's increased vote came about. It was a mixture of disillusionment with the two major parties and students being able to vote. Oh and one more very important thing that I forgot, the fact that Adams and Ferris were not standing for election.

Runaways

10-15 years

Just on the radio earlier that the British government could be facing hundreds of cases looking for reparations from both Republican and Loyalist factions

Good old British justice will see them right

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

I just laid out very basically how SF's increased vote came about. It was a mixture of disillusionment with the two major parties and students being able to vote. Oh and one more very important thing that I forgot, the fact that Adams and Ferris were not standing for election.

What is wrong with that though?
That's what happens at change of government.
There is nothing unusual or noteworthy about it that lessens the result.
Well they tried to breathlessly expose the fact that Adams was still there and still SF's vote surged. They tried everything.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

What is wrong with that though? That's what happens at change of government. There is nothing unusual or noteworthy about it that lessens the result. Well they tried to breathlessly expose the fact that Adams was still there and still SF's vote surged. They tried everything.

Did I say there was anything wrong with it?
It just points to the fact that there's a huge opening for a new political party.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

Did I say there was anything wrong with it?
It just points to the fact that there's a huge opening for a new political party.

Why would there be a need for a new party?

People voted, if you don't like their choices...form that new party yourself?

munsterlegend

eagle eye wrote: »

Did I say there was anything wrong with it?
It just points to the fact that there's a huge opening for a new political party.

How many new political parties have we had? Sinn Fein are here to stay. FF much more likely to go by the wayside.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

munsterlegend wrote:

How many new political parties have we had? Sinn Fein are here to stay. FF much more likely to go by the wayside.

FF should be gone already, only FG's horrendous management of the country kept them alive. They won't die now though, they'll actually grow when they get rid right of Martin. He has the stench of the banking crisis off him and he is holding them back, much like Adams and Ferris and their links to the PIRA were holding back SF.

munsterlegend

eagle eye wrote: »

FF should be gone already, only FG's horrendous management of the country kept them alive. They won't die now though, they'll actually grow when they get rid right of Martin. He has the stench of the banking crisis off him and he is holding them back, much like Adams and Ferris and their links to the PIRA were holding back SF.

I doubt it. Only room for one or the other now with SF leading the left/centre left vote. There is no difference between FF and FG and civil war voting reasons are long gone.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

FF should be gone already, only FG's horrendous management of the country kept them alive. They won't die now though, they'll actually grow when they get rid right of Martin. He has the stench of the banking crisis off him and he is holding them back, much like Adams and Ferris and their links to the PIRA were holding back SF.

Sure the usual anti-Shinners are throwing the same nonsense at O'Neill and Mary Lou...see thread on Adams Supreme Court win.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

I'm sure that thread is a cess pit of hidden agenda and professional haters so I'll give it a miss.

Mary Lou certainly should not be likened to Adams and Ferris. I really don't know enough about O'Neill to make a comment.

FrancieBrady

As per the conversation a while ago De Sousa wins her case. Not a great week for Old Blighty in the courts.

https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1260900083035496454

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As per the conversation a while ago De Sousa wins her case. Not a great week for Old Blighty in the courts.

Blighty (England) I thought it only applied to NI?

...but I'm open to correction.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Blighty (England) I thought it only applied to NI?

...but I'm open to correction.

Well, I never took part in the fallacy that anyone but England ran the UK, HC.

Hamsterchops

Seriously, does the ruling only apply to NI?

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Seriously, does the ruling only apply to NI?

Yes, as far as I know. Because of the GFA.

Hamsterchops

So Blighty is not affected.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

So Blighty is not affected.

No.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

The disinformation in this post is remarkable.

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Regarding the Irish language act up North, well the problem with that is that the language was hijacked & weaponised by the Republican side a long time ago

The original weaponisers were the colonists who used actual weapons and ethnic/cultural cleansing.

the Irish language ... has been used as a tool to eat away at the "non indigenous" Anglo culture

Amazing, you're literally flipping history on its head here. The non-indigenous Anglo culture purposefully ate away at the indigenous culture, as it did the world over, often accompanied by disease, slavery, mass starvation, and mass-murder.

The Irish language (like the 12th) is being used as a way to mark out ones turf, lifting the hind leg and getting "one over" on (against) the other side.

The Irish Language is not comparable to marching around where you're not wanted. Nobody is going to be forced to speak or learn Irish in the north.

Irish it scare the Nordies

Note how the above conflates 'nordies' with 'unionists' perhaps exposing who he believes rightfully owns the six counties.

Unionists are a minority in the north, a minority in Belfast, a minority in Derry and a minority in four of the six counties currently under UK jurisdiction. A majority of political representatives in the north have no issue with an ILA.

Fr D Maugire

Hamsterchops wrote: »

For me here in the South, the 12th is not something I've ever witnessed, although I gather it's big in Ulster and parts of Scotland & the North of England. It's a regional thing, a blast from the past, an ancient tradition & a marking out of turf from ye olden days of Orange Vs Green, it's s funny old thing I'd like to see some day, big drums & funny walks, flags & bowler hats

Regarding the Irish language act up North, well the problem with that is that the language was hijacked & weaponised by the Republican side a long time ago (during the latter stages of the Troubles), the Tricolour was also hijacked by them and God knows it took a long time to get it back.

For many years the Tricolour was seen as an "IRA flag" and the same then happened with the Irish language, whereby it has been used as a tool to eat away at the "non indigenous" Anglo culture, which is a shame really, because Irish has a place in the modern world, even if bugger all people need it for business & commerce. The Irish language (like the 12th) is being used as a way to mark out ones turf, lifting the hind leg and getting "one over" on (against) the other side.

That's what I perceive from it....

Talking about Irish generally. They/we need to chill a little on the old language front, no need for such a mandatory enforcement of Irish in schools, as not only does it scare the Nordies, but it has does untold damage to the heritage of the language, with generation after generation rebelling against mandatory Irish since it was artificially reintroduced in the early 1930s into ROI schools.

But that's for another thread on another day

I get that some see people see the Irish Language as being weaponised, but the OO/12th is weaponised to its core, and always has been. I asked already, but can you point to a similar 'culture' anywhere else in the world? The question is why is the OO/permitted, but the Irish language act not permitted?

You mention eating away at the "Non-Idigenous" Anglo culture, are you suggesting that only the "Non-Idigenous" people should be allowed to express their culture despite there being two cultures in NI, because that is sure what it sounds like. Downcow mentioned Basque Country, Catalonia before, yet their languages and cultures are recognised, Brittany in France, Trentino-Alto Adige in Italy, also places where different languages/cultures are recognised. Surely they are all weaponised if they go against the main culture of the Country they are in, yet most are officialy recognised by the main Country.

As for the Irish flag, Unionists always hated that flag, long before the IRA ever existed. They hated what it stood for, peace, unity, equality between Catholics and Protestants in an independent Ireland. Based on the French flag, and brought to Ireland by a group from various religious backgrounds, who were inspired by the ideals of the French Revolution.

Or the 1798 Rebellion which was inspired by the ideals of the American revolution, democracy, freedom, equality for all men. Opposed by Unionists. See a theme yet?

Anything that remotely suggested democracy, equality or sharing power with Catholics. Opposed by Unionists. Home Rule, Ireland remains part of UK, with limited self government, Unionists would still be part of UK. Opposed, because it meant democracy and equality. Indeed, they threatened to rebel against a Democratic process if it went ahead.

So in summary OO/12th July? All Good.

Irish Language Act? All Bad.

Is this not just a continuation in the unwillingness of Unionists to recognise basic ideals of fairness and equality which seems to be the main raison d'etre for their existence.

Fr D Maugire

downcow wrote: »

I am up for serious discussion and learning but then we can’t just avoid the hard questions.
The key reasons we are against an ILA is (1) that there is no clarity around what it is or what the parameters are. I guess it’s a fear (maybe not the correct word) that it will be used and abused by a small group to get more and more (no doubt what was in Arleen’s mind when she used the feeding crocodiles). (2) The other problem is, as another poster just said on here ‘lauding it over us’. (3) marking territory and majority decide where it happens.
If you could genuinely put these concerns to bed for me it would be helpful. I am not at all against the IL, it’s the ILA I am concerned about in a very devided society

We listen to IL supporters with huge demands eg court cases held in Irish whilst every single person in the courtroom including defendant is more proficient in English.
Statements that IL signs must go up on the Shankill road whether locals want them or not.

Help me with the 3 points

My post was not about the in and outs of the Language Act. My point was why do Unionists get to laud it over Catholics with OO/12th of July. You said yourself, Irish Language Act and OO/12th are both weaponised, so surely both should be treated equally. Recognise both or do not permi either.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

The parades only get notice because some people hate them. If people had enough cop on to ignore them the numbers parading would dwindle year after year.
It kinda reminds me of meeting the guy on the sports field who'd insult your mother, father or anybody he thought he could get to you by insulting them and many fell for it. I always just smiled at those guys and told them I've no interest in their beliefs. They'd give up pretty quickly when they realised they couldn't get to me.
The Irish language is a totally different thing but I think it should be available as an option alongside other languages for education.

Fr D Maugire

eagle eye wrote: »

The parades only get notice because some people hate them. If people had enough cop on to ignore them the numbers parading would dwindle year after year.
It kinda reminds me of meeting the guy on the sports field who'd insult your mother, father or anybody he thought he could get to you by insulting them and many fell for it. I always just smiled at those guys and told them I've no interest in their beliefs. They'd give up pretty quickly when they realised they couldn't get to me.
The Irish language is a totally different thing but I think it should be available as an option alongside other languages for education.

Is that not like telling footballers who are racially abused by fans to just ignore them.