How long before Irish reunification?

FrancieBrady

_blaaz wrote: »

Except we were ruled by ourselves entirely (ie utd)....why you want to change goalposts is your issue to deal with mate

As if all this was going to factor into the debate anyway.

It's just partitionist pedantry by markodaly and completely irrelevant in reality.

RobMc59

10-15 years

_blaaz wrote: »

Except we were ruled by ourselves entirely (ie utd)....why you want to change goalposts is your issue to deal with mate




The ultimate irony being i wouldnt vote for sinn fein....but keep.lashing labels on people to run away from debate

Could you provide a link to when Ireland ruled itself without first the Anglo-Normans and later English being there?I ask as everything I can find on the subject says the British ruled Ireland from the 12th century.Prior to that Ireland was splintered,although the vikings were also present.

_blaaz

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

Could you provide a link to when Ireland ruled itself without first the Anglo-Normans and later English being there?

Who anywhere has claimed this?.....im refering to parlimwnts of 1700s (which predate union),which were irish run over whole island
(Complete sham parliment mind,which caused 1798 rebellion)

James Brown

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

Could you provide a link to when Ireland ruled itself without first the Anglo-Normans and later English being there?I ask as everything I can find on the subject says the British ruled Ireland from the 12th century.Prior to that Ireland was splintered,although the vikings were also present.

Is this a badly worded apology on behalf of the Empire?

Riddle me this, why was/is it called Ireland and not just another part of England, say county Ireland?

RobMc59

10-15 years

_blaaz wrote: »

Who anywhere has claimed this?.....im refering to parlimwnts of 1700s (which predate union),which were irish run over whole island

You claimed it in your post#841

_blaaz

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

You claimed it in your post#841

Nowhere have i memtioned the 1200s....thats all on you mate

blanch152

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Anyone bringing the case for judicial review would see it backfire spectacularly I reckon. It would have the opposite of the intended effect in the public’s view.
You know it would be some staunch unionist and they are adept at one thing only. Shooting themselves in the foot. Frequently.

Raymond Crotty was told the same thing and he won a spectacular victory in the courts.

blanch152

_blaaz wrote: »

Who anywhere has claimed this?.....im refering to parlimwnts of 1700s (which predate union),which were irish run over whole island
(Complete sham parliment mind,which caused 1798 rebellion)

If that’s what you mean by reunification, I am sure that once we surrender to the Queen, we can be granted some form of local sovereignty.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Raymond Crotty was told the same thing and he won a spectacular victory in the courts.

Where was he told it 'would backfire spectacularly'? He took a case and won.

You still have to outline what would be 'unreasonable' about a SOS deciding his/her opinion that a Border Poll was 'likely' or 'unlikely' to proceed?

_blaaz

10-15 years

blanch152 wrote: »

If that’s what you mean by reunification, I am sure that once we surrender to the Queen, we can be granted some form of local sovereignty.

Meh.....except its not??

But keep.filibustering away with irrelevant (and mindnumbingly poorly interpeted) points....im not the one claiming ireland was never utd and run by the irish

Dyr

_blaaz wrote: »

Meh.....except its not??

But keep.filibustering away with irrelevant (and mindnumbingly poorly interpeted) points....im not the one claiming ireland was never utd and run by the irish

You're dealing with a fella who claimed the UK could and would walk away from the GFA whenever they felt like it. Don't expect too much.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

This whole derailment is really pedantic. Speaks to the lack of tangible argument from those opposing a UI in here. Least there’s one who sticks to his fake nonexistent polls and 37% > 63% nonsense

RobMc59

10-15 years

_blaaz wrote: »

Meh.....except its not??

But keep.filibustering away with irrelevant (and mindnumbingly poorly interpeted) points....im not the one claiming ireland was never utd and run by the irish

If you`re referring to the 1700s Ireland was run by Protestant Anglo-Irish families

_blaaz

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

If you`re referring to the 1700s Ireland was run by Protestant Anglo-Irish families

Exactly....unless your claiming anglo-irish arent actually irish??


Which im sure the unionists of ireland would love to hear (also slightly racist viewpoint)

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

I’ve never known Anglo Irish to say they aren’t Irish.
They do however see themselves as somehow better than us and there’s an insidious and stealthy but obvious looking down on us which is just part of their upbringing I can only surmise
Recently spoke to one I know that has land and some title. They see themselves as a people with no place. Never recognised as Irish by us but no at all regarded as British in Britain. They’re totally lost historically. But in such small numbers now it’s of no matter generally.

FrancieBrady

To get back to the topic, could someone explain how this, from the previous Judicial Review of the SOS's power could give anyone a case of 'unreasonableness' if he/she decides to call a poll:

The statutory framework does not specify the matters which must be taken into account or left out of account in deciding whether a border poll is or is not appropriate. In essence it must be for the Secretary of State to decide what matters should be taken into account on the political question of the appropriateness of a poll.

BTW: I do not discount some belligerent Unionist mounting a challenge, more than possible, I am discounting the possibility of them winning.

RobMc59

10-15 years

_blaaz wrote: »

Exactly....unless your claiming anglo-irish arent actually irish??


Which im sure the unionists of ireland would love to hear (also slightly racist viewpoint)

Anglo is the clue....

_blaaz

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

Anglo is the clue....

Ok mate....are we take it yous dont regard anglo irish as irish?



Your posts arent clear??

RobMc59

10-15 years

_blaaz wrote: »

Ok mate....are we take it yous dont regard anglo irish as irish?



Your posts arent clear??

They were referred to as the "New English" although perhaps you are correct, they can be viewed as Irish.

James Brown

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

They were referred to as the "New English" although perhaps you are correct, they can be viewed as Irish.

Everyone on the island of Ireland is Irish. They can identify with the Dutch, English or whichever royalty tickles their fancy and is convenient at any particular time but they are geographically Irish although free to use a variant.
Like the Queen, she's English but could easily consider herself German, but she'd still be English, made up surname or not.

Annd9

Not sure if it's been covered already but its a subject that nobody really brings up .Would any southern parties campaign against unity ? Would we have new parties specific to a border poll in the south ? I'm aware nobody can know these questions but what are you're opinions ?
Having seen the campaign during the Scottish referendum with Cameron and Co traveling north for influence would it be in any way similar here ? Could we see unionists canvass down south and visa versa ? Not being familiar with rules regarding boarder poll's is making this all the more intriguing to me .

FrancieBrady

Annd9 wrote: »

Not sure if it's been covered already but its a subject that nobody really brings up .Would any southern parties campaign against unity ? Would we have new parties specific to a border poll in the south ? I'm aware nobody can know these questions but what are you're opinions ?
Having seen the campaign during the Scottish referendum with Cameron and Co traveling north for influence would it be in any way similar here ? Could we see unionists canvass down south and visa versa ? Not being familiar with rules regarding boarder poll's is making this all the more intriguing to me .

None of the main parties will oppose a unity referendum and most of them will be fully committed to it. (I'd have only doubts about all of FG)

You will get UUP and DUP spokespeople down here giving their views without a doubt and they are welcome.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Annd9 wrote: »

Not sure if it's been covered already but its a subject that nobody really brings up .Would any southern parties campaign against unity ? Would we have new parties specific to a border poll in the south ? I'm aware nobody can know these questions but what are you're opinions ?
Having seen the campaign during the Scottish referendum with Cameron and Co traveling north for influence would it be in any way similar here ? Could we see unionists canvass down south and visa versa ? Not being familiar with rules regarding boarder poll's is making this all the more intriguing to me .

Was wondering about that. I don’t think you’d see a single party here campaign against it.

I did also wonder what form the no campaign would take up north?
How would they sell a UI as a terrible idea to the population up there?
No doubt there’ll be an influx of dark money into unionist party accounts and it would be spent down here trying to spook the public via billboards and fb ads.
We just had that happen in repeal the 8th campaign. And Russian entities identified running fake news pages spreading fake stories about politicians up there. And banned from the platform.


How exactly would they campaign against it up there though?

_blaaz

10-15 years

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Was wondering about that. I don’t think you’d see a single party here campaign against it.

I did also wonder what form the no campaign would take up north?
How would they sell a UI as a terrible idea to the population up there?
No doubt there’ll be an influx of dark money into unionist party accounts and it would be spent down here trying to spook the public via billboards and fb ads.
We just had that happen in repeal the 8th campaign. And Russian entities identified running fake news pages spreading fake stories about politicians up there. And banned from the platform.


How exactly would they campaign against it up there though?

Id imagine russian influence would be directed towards reunification efforts.....an effort to weaken britain




As for political parties,afaik all main parties have seeking reunification as part of their constitution.....if not they would be campaigning to remove the national.constitutional desire for reunification

dudara

markodaly wrote: »

I confused you with another Shinnerbot, ye all sound the same to me.

Let’s try to have a conversation without inflammatory comments like “shinnerbot”. That stuff is old.

dudara

FrancieBrady

Although the British government has to remain neutral, it will be interesting to hear what British politicians contribute.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

_blaaz wrote: »

Id imagine russian influence would be directed towards reunification efforts.....an effort to weaken britain




As for political parties,afaik all main parties have seeking reunification as part of their constitution.....if not they would be campaigning to remove the national.constitutional desire for reunification

Russians are all about division right now though. And causing as much of it as possible. Everywhere possible.
Interesting point though. Wonder what the play is now that’s trump has so openly and brazenly insulted the uk and reduced it to its apparent vassal state for all to see. How will that play out if the UI poll happens.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Russians are all about division right now though. And causing as much of it as possible. Everywhere possible.
Interesting point though. Wonder what the play is now that’s trump has so openly and brazenly insulted the uk and reduced it to its apparent vassal state for all to see. How will that play out if the UI poll happens.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

To get back to the topic, could someone explain how this, from the previous Judicial Review of the SOS's power could give anyone a case of 'unreasonableness' if he/she decides to call a poll:





BTW: I do not discount some belligerent Unionist mounting a challenge, more than possible, I am discounting the possibility of them winning.

And yes, it must be left to the SOS to decide, and it is only when he decides that the reasonableness of his decision can be tested. That court case is correctly saying that his decision cannot be second-guessed in advance. That is all, nothing more.

markodaly

_blaaz wrote: »

Except we were ruled by ourselves entirely (ie utd)....why you want to change goalposts is your own issue to deal with mate

Historically inaccurate, false and counterfactual. Quite a trifecta.
Meanwhile in reality.

After 1707, Ireland was, to varying degrees, subordinate to the Kingdom of Great Britain. The Parliament of Ireland had control over only legislation, while the executive branch of government, under the Lord Lieutenant, answered to the British government in London. Furthermore, the Penal Laws meant that Catholics, who constituted the majority of Irish people, were not permitted to sit in, or participate in, elections to the parliament. Meanwhile, building upon the precedent of Poynings' Law which required approval from the British Privy Council for bills to be put to the Irish Parliament, the Dependency of Ireland on Great Britain Act 1719 declared the British Parliament's right to legislate for Ireland and the British House of Lords appellate jurisdiction over its courts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Ireland#Powers

The fact is, that Ireland has never been united under Irish rule. To state otherwise is engaging in Trump level 'facts'