How long before Irish reunification?

munsterlegend

eagle eye wrote: »

The parades only get notice because some people hate them. If people had enough cop on to ignore them the numbers parading would dwindle year after year.
It kinda reminds me of meeting the guy on the sports field who'd insult your mother, father or anybody he thought he could get to you by insulting them and many fell for it. I always just smiled at those guys and told them I've no interest in their beliefs. They'd give up pretty quickly when they realised they couldn't get to me.
The Irish language is a totally different thing but I think it should be available as an option alongside other languages for education.

Must be up there as one of the most moronic analogies I have heard.

Hamsterchops

Wow Tom, that caught your attention

And as usual I was trying to be balanced by criticising both sides (#8629) but you really don't like any critisim of the Green side at all, you just want one way traffic whereby we must dump on the Orange side alone, Big-up the Irish language, and condemn Unionism at all costs!

Sorry, can't help you there.
Two tribes, two sides etc ...

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

And as usual I was trying to be balanced by criticising both sides

The fallacy of moral equivalence. You were trying to portray the colonist as the victim of the native which is just a complete distortion of the past.

critisim of the Green side at all

The Irish language is not a possession of the 'green side'. Lots of Unionists used to speak Irish, Presbyterians were instrumental in its survival I believe, and it's spoken in Scotland too.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

The parades only get notice because some people hate them. If people had enough cop on to ignore them the numbers parading would dwindle year after year.
It kinda reminds me of meeting the guy on the sports field who'd insult your mother, father or anybody he thought he could get to you by insulting them and many fell for it. I always just smiled at those guys and told them I've no interest in their beliefs. They'd give up pretty quickly when they realised they couldn't get to me.
The Irish language is a totally different thing but I think it should be available as an option alongside other languages for education.

Sure...just ignore it as it closes down your street and community every year?

Again you have this peculiar knack of making it sound like you are criticising those on the receiving end.

Hamsterchops

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The fallacy of moral equivalence. You were trying to portray the colonist as the victim of the native which is just a complete distortion of the past.

No, I was portraying the Orange marchers as colourful nutters in Bowler hats, but you must have overlooked that.

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The Irish language is not a possession of the 'green side'. Lots of Unionists used to speak Irish, Presbyterians were instrumental in its survival I believe, and it's spoken in Scotland too.

That's all true, just saying like, here in the ROI re very poor teaching of + the fact hat you lot have used it as a weapon against Unionism up North.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

used it as a weapon against Unionism

How exactly? Are Turas in East Belfast using it as a weapon against themselves?

I haven't a word of Irish for what it's worth and I'm am neutral on whether it should be compulsory in schools.

I do believe it should be protected under law as we can see how it is despised by Unionism who want to suppress it.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As per the conversation a while ago De Sousa wins her case. Not a great week for Old Blighty in the courts.

https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1260900083035496454

Bit more detail here but it sees to be temporary and the UK are "allowing it" rather than it being a legal right or precedent.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-52660737

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Bit more detail here but it sees to be temporary and the UK are "allowing it" rather than it being a legal right or precedent.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-52660737

I'd imagine that is to avoid the bad press of it being called a cave-in. They'll quietly enshrine it when it is no longer a big story.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Fr D Maugire wrote:

Is that not like telling footballers who are racially abused by fans to just ignore them.

I don't see it as anything like that.

munsterlegend wrote:

Must be up there as one of the most moronic analogies I have heard.

I'd say you are not the brightest as you turn to insults a lot.

FrancieBrady wrote:

Sure...just ignore it as it closes down your street and community every year?
Again you have this peculiar knack of making it sound like you are criticising those on the receiving end.

I'm not criticising them, I'm saying rise above it.

munsterlegend

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't see it as anything like that.


I'd say you are not the brightest as you turn to insults a lot.


I'm not criticising them, I'm saying rise above it.

Comparing a group with a structure in line with the KKK and based on sectarian hatred to a day in the sports field. What’s next hitler to the local shopkeeper?

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

munsterlegend wrote:

Comparing a group with a structure in line with the KKK and based on sectarian hatred to a day in the sports field. What’s next hitler to the local shopkeeper?

I never mentioned the KKK or anything about them.

Fuascailteoir

Demographics are certainly against unionists and if they had any foresight would be trying their best to make sure the nationalist population would be content with the current constitutional status in the six counties. Instead of this they ramble on about the Irish language and crocs and all manner of ways to alienate their neighbours. Is deeply routed so is hard for them to break the cycle. In a number of years will be too late for them to realise this

munsterlegend

eagle eye wrote: »

I never mentioned the KKK or anything about them.

Well immerse yourself on the origins of the orange order before comparing them to a day at the sports field. It’s a grouping that merely exists to demonstrate superiority and antagonise. It has no place in 2020 and thankfully it’s numbers are dwindling.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not criticising them, I'm saying rise above it.

That's easy for you to say.

Who wants to live in society were that kind of thing brings it to a standstill every year. Remember, because people objected these people are are behaving better and restricting themselves to areas they are wanted.
Somethings are worth standing for and drawing a line.

Fr D Maugire

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't see it as anything like that.


I'd say you are not the brightest as you turn to insults a lot.


I'm not criticising them, I'm saying rise above it.

How do you see it then?

One is sectarian, the other is racist. Is there really that much of a difference? Both are based on hate.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

munsterlegend wrote:

Well immerse yourself on the origins of the orange order before comparing them to a day at the sports field. It’s a grouping that merely exists to demonstrate superiority and antagonise. It has no place in 2020 and thankfully it’s numbers are dwindling.

I'm not comparing them to a day on the sports field. I'm comparing reactions to situations.
The best way the beat it is to rise above it. If they get no reaction their numbers will dwindle.

jm08

20-30 years

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not comparing them to a day on the sports field. I'm comparing reactions to situations.
The best way the beat it is to rise above it. If they get no reaction their numbers will dwindle.

There are a lot of them (3873 in 2019), so hard to ignore!


https://www.paradescommission.org/Press-Releases/There-were-4394-parades-notified-in-2017-click-her.aspx

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not comparing them to a day on the sports field. I'm comparing reactions to situations.
The best way the beat it is to rise above it. If they get no reaction their numbers will dwindle.

They have gotten loads of reaction and their numbers are dwindling. The OO membership is in decline.
It is almost like saying you are in the KKK now, most moderate unionists would hide the fact. That is a huge difference to the day when every leader of Northern Ireland was a proud member.

downcow

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

I get that some see people see the Irish Language as being weaponised, but the OO/12th is weaponised to its core, and always has been. I asked already, but can you point to a similar 'culture' anywhere else in the world? The question is why is the OO/permitted, but the Irish language act not permitted?

You mention eating away at the "Non-Idigenous" Anglo culture, are you suggesting that only the "Non-Idigenous" people should be allowed to express their culture despite there being two cultures in NI, because that is sure what it sounds like. Downcow mentioned Basque Country, Catalonia before, yet their languages and cultures are recognised, Brittany in France, Trentino-Alto Adige in Italy, also places where different languages/cultures are recognised. Surely they are all weaponised if they go against the main culture of the Country they are in, yet most are officialy recognised by the main Country.

As for the Irish flag, Unionists always hated that flag, long before the IRA ever existed. They hated what it stood for, peace, unity, equality between Catholics and Protestants in an independent Ireland. Based on the French flag, and brought to Ireland by a group from various religious backgrounds, who were inspired by the ideals of the French Revolution.

Or the 1798 Rebellion which was inspired by the ideals of the American revolution, democracy, freedom, equality for all men. Opposed by Unionists. See a theme yet?

Anything that remotely suggested democracy, equality or sharing power with Catholics. Opposed by Unionists. Home Rule, Ireland remains part of UK, with limited self government, Unionists would still be part of UK. Opposed, because it meant democracy and equality. Indeed, they threatened to rebel against a Democratic process if it went ahead.

So in summary OO/12th July? All Good.

Irish Language Act? All Bad.

Is this not just a continuation in the unwillingness of Unionists to recognise basic ideals of fairness and equality which seems to be the main raison d'etre for their existence.

We are closer to each other than you think.
I am not saying have orange parades and have no IL
You are saying have ILA but have no cultural act.
I am actually saying (and so are unionist parties) it’s both or neither. ie have Cultural Act which include both parading and IL. surely that is fair

downcow

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

My post was not about the in and outs of the Language Act. My point was why do Unionists get to laud it over Catholics with OO/12th of July. You said yourself, Irish Language Act and OO/12th are both weaponised, so surely both should be treated equally. Recognise both or do not permi either.

I completely agree. An Act to support both cultures or no act at all. Couldn’t be fairer than that

Runaways

10-15 years

Delighted for Emma that’s great news

Watch now in the coming weeks and months the huge uptake in our unionist friends claiming their Irish passports

Sunny Disposition

15-20 years

Remember around the time Tony Blair became leader of the British Labour Party, the head of the Orange Order in Ireland criticised him for having married a Catholic. Disgusting, bigoted organisation, that somehow draws mass support in the North.

blinding

10-15 years

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Remember around the time Tony Blair became leader of the British Labour Party, the head of the Orange Order in Ireland criticised him for having married a Catholic. Disgusting, bigoted organisation, that somehow draws mass support in the North.

Didn’t Tony Blair convert to Catholicism after leaving Office.

In Fairness , Nobody else wanted him or would take him ! :eek:

FrancieBrady

I dare say it will be ignored publicly but is Unionism asking itself this question from Gerry Adams this morning?

Gerry Adams wrote:

How many betrayals does it take before you decide to embrace the people of your own place instead of the betrayers?

downcow

Runaways wrote: »

Delighted for Emma that’s great news

Watch now in the coming weeks and months the huge uptake in our unionist friends claiming their Irish passports

I would have no qualms about ‘using’ an Irish passport. I won’t feel the slightest bit more Irish, but I will have all the being it’s when I travel Europe to follow my beloved british team, Northern Ireland.
It’s a no brainier to get one of you are eligible. Just really an enhanced insurance

downcow

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Remember around the time Tony Blair became leader of the British Labour Party, the head of the Orange Order in Ireland criticised him for having married a Catholic. Disgusting, bigoted organisation, that somehow draws mass support in the North.

This is what is sad about this forum at times. People trying to score points by bringing up nonsense from individuals away in the past.
Sunny, name me any organisation and I will find you some very embarrassing moment or statement from them?
Your arguments are very shallow

Sunny Disposition

15-20 years

downcow wrote: »

This is what is sad about this forum at times. People trying to score points by bringing up nonsense from individuals away in the past.
Sunny, name me any organisation and I will find you some very embarrassing moment or statement from them?
Your arguments are very shallow

It's true that you could find an embarrassing statement from a senior figure in most organisations, certainly the GAA, probably Irish language organisations.
But his comments are not untypical of the Orange Order, it has proved itself time and again to be bigoted.
It has actually stopped its members attending Catholic ceremonies.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ex-unionist-mp-open-to-review-of-orange-order-rules-on-catholic-services-37954771.html

Runaways

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

I would have no qualms about ‘using’ an Irish passport. I won’t feel the slightest bit more Irish, but I will have all the being it’s when I travel Europe to follow my beloved british team, Northern Ireland.
It’s a no brainier to get one of you are eligible. Just really an enhanced insurance

Where to even start with that


So you’re British when it suits you

Laughable

munsterlegend

Runaways wrote: »

Where to even start with that


So you’re British when it suits you

Laughable

Talks about trying to welcome players from nationalist community who identify as Irish to play with the north and then refers to them as a British team. Shows his bona fides about anthem change.

munsterlegend

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

It's true that you could find an embarrassing statement from a senior figure in most organisations, certainly the GAA, probably Irish language organisations.
But his comments are not untypical of the Orange Order, it has proved itself time and again to be bigoted.
It has actually stopped its members attending Catholic ceremonies.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ex-unionist-mp-open-to-review-of-orange-order-rules-on-catholic-services-37954771.html

No right thinking person in 2020 could actually defend the OO. It’s anti catholic anti gay views as well as other archaic practices can’t be tolerated. The Unionists can have a day to celebrate their British identity but it should no longer be linked up with these dinosaurs.