How long before Irish reunification?

Kaybaykwah

munsterlegend wrote: »

He just like stating the same point incessantly.

It could be that his mind is open to the same old idea, again and again.

Hamsterchops

munsterlegend wrote: »

He just like stating the same point incessantly.

Thank you, I think :cool:

But yes, I am indeed stating the same point about self determination, because several posters on here have been telling downcow (over many pages) that he and his fellow Unionists are not British.......

And what I keep saying is, that if they say they are British then they bloody well are, and who are we to tell them what they are or are not.

Talk about Groundhog Day.

blinding

10-15 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Thank you, I think :cool:

But yes, I am indeed stating the same point about self determination, because several posters on here have been telling downcow (over many pages) that he and his fellow Unionists are not British.......

And what I keep saying is, that if they say they are British then they bloody well are, and who are we to tell them what they are or are not.

Talk about Groundhog Day.

Sure we agree with you. You are Irish British or British Irish and at a stretch Northern Irish British / British Northern Irish.

Why are ye so ashamed of where ye are from ? Did ye do some really bad stuff here or what ? ?

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Thank you, I think :cool:

But yes, I am indeed stating the same point about self determination, because several posters on here have been telling downcow (over many pages) that he and his fellow Unionists are not British.......

And what I keep saying is, that if they say they are British then they bloody well are, and who are we to tell them what they are or are not.

Talk about Groundhog Day.

'Self detemination'...the freedom to identify as whatever you want. A 'choice' in other words, known by no other until you tell them.

Already determined = the island on which you are born - Ireland. You cannot choose or opt, to change that.

The Golden Miller

20-30 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Thank you, I think :cool:

But yes, I am indeed stating the same point about self determination, because several posters on here have been telling downcow (over many pages) that he and his fellow Unionists are not British.......

And what I keep saying is, that if they say they are British then they bloody well are, and who are we to tell them what they are or are not.

Talk about Groundhog Day.

No, this was not the point that was made. I pointed out his nationality was Irish, whether he accepts it or not. In the same way someone in Scotland is Scottish. The north is the Irish part of the UK, people didn't cease to be Irish overnight. Nationality is not a political concept.

British is the demoyn for the whole UK as a political entity. In that regard, yes downcow is British, sameway a Scottish person obtains British citizenship. Self-determination then dictates, you can either assume Irish citizenship in the north instead, or both, all carrying equal weighting

As for self-identifying, anyone can self identify as they wish. If someone wants to be know as Northern Irish I'll call them that, regardless of whether it has any real standing as a nationality or citizenship. But that's up to the individual. Doesn't really mean anything, other than to the person in question

It always amazes me the lengths some in the south go to defend unionists, to make themselves feel progressive or whatever, yet will happily tell Irish people in the north they are nordies or British.

What was that we were saying about groundhog day....

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Insisting on calling it the 'British Isles' in these post colonial times is as big an indicator of your political fealities as the flag you wave is. It's an outdated term no longer used politically or by anyone trying to be accurate.

I was wondering when you'd wheel that old chestnut out again.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I was wondering when you'd wheel that old chestnut out again.

It wasn't me that introduced an archaic term of ownership back into the thread Rob.

downcow

The Golden Miller wrote: »

No, this was not the point that was made. I pointed out his nationality was Irish, whether he accepts it or not. In the same way someone in Scotland is Scottish. The north is the Irish part of the UK, people didn't cease to be Irish overnight. Nationality is not a political concept.

British is the demoyn for the whole UK as a political entity. In that regard, yes downcow is British, sameway a Scottish person obtains British citizenship. Self-determination then dictates, you can either assume Irish citizenship in the north instead, or both, all carrying equal weighting

As for self-identifying, anyone can self identify as they wish. If someone wants to be know as Northern Irish I'll call them that, regardless of whether it has any real standing as a nationality or citizenship. But that's up to the individual. Doesn't really mean anything, other than to the person in question

It always amazes me the lengths some in the south go to defend unionists, to make themselves feel progressive or whatever, yet will happily tell Irish people in the north they are nordies or British.

What was that we were saying about groundhog day....

GM, Please explain to me how I am any less Northern Irish than Billy Connolly is Scottish or Gordon Banks is English? - And yes of course we are all equally British

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

GM, Please explain to me how I am any less Northern Irish than Billy Connolly is Scottish or Gordon Banks is English? - And yes of course we are all equally British

'Northern' Irish isn't a nationality. You're confusing the name of the part of Ireland under UK jurisdiction with nationality.

Billy Connolly doesn't claim to be 'Western Scottish' in a desperate attempt to distance himself from being Scottish.

The Golden Miller

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

GM, Please explain to me how I am any less Northern Irish than Billy Connolly is Scottish or Gordon Banks is English? - And yes of course we are all equally British

As Junkyard Tom shows you, Northern Irish isn't a nationality. There is no "Northern Ireland" nation, so how can it bear a nationality? The Irish nation has two political jurisdictions. Your easily confused

downcow

The Golden Miller wrote: »

As Junkyard Tom shows you, Northern Irish isn't a nationality. There is no "Northern Ireland" nation, so how can it bear a nationality? The Irish nation has two political jurisdictions. Your easily confused

try answering the question guys. probably the very fact you are avoiding answering it tells us the you know rightly that i am every bit as Northern Irish as bill Connolly is Scottish

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

try answering the question guys. probably the very fact you are avoiding answering it tells us the you know rightly that i am every bit as Northern Irish as bill Connolly is Scottish

DC is every bit as northern Irish as BC is western Scottish.

Happy now?

jm08

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

try answering the question guys. probably the very fact you are avoiding answering it tells us the you know rightly that i am every bit as Northern Irish as bill Connolly is Scottish

Northern Irish isn't a nationality. There is no mention of being Northern Irish in the GFA (just, British or Irish). Northern Irish is new since then.



The people of this island would be Irish, Anglo-Irish or Scots-Irish/Ulster Scots and no one really cares how anyone identifies.

Hamsterchops

jm08 wrote: »

The people of this island would be Irish, Anglo-Irish or Scots-Irish/Ulster Scots and no one really cares how anyone identifies.

And maybe downcow is British?

The Golden Miller

20-30 years

downcow wrote: »

try answering the question guys. probably the very fact you are avoiding answering it tells us the you know rightly that i am every bit as Northern Irish as bill Connolly is Scottish

Are you trying to suggest "Northern Irish" is a nationality. If so, Northern Ireland must first be a nation. On what basis is Northern Ireland a nation? Please elaborate

The Golden Miller

20-30 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

And maybe downcow is British?

He clearly is a British citizen. He's also Irish whether he accepts it or not. After that he can identify as whatever he wants

Hamsterchops

The Golden Miller wrote: »

He clearly is a British citizen. He's also Irish whether he accepts it or not. After that he can identify as whatever he wants

And his nationality is British too ✓

munsterlegend

Hamsterchops wrote: »

And his nationality is British too ✓

That’s citizenship which the British confers on the north due to its political status.

The Golden Miller

20-30 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

And his nationality is British too ✓

If you use the term citizen and nationality interchangeably, then fair enough. Britain isn't a nation though, its an island, with 3 distinct countries/nations. So even if it was a nation, the north still wouldn't be part of it

The North is in the UK politically, they are British citizens

RobMc59

10-15 years

munsterlegend wrote: »

That’s citizenship which the British confers on the north due to its political status.

And Ireland acknowledges NI is part of the UK and it has no claim on the territory know as NI .

The Golden Miller

20-30 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

And Ireland acknowledges NI is part of the UK and it has no claim on the territory know as NI .

That's not the point being made. No one said they didn't. Did you even read the previous posts?

Hamsterchops

The Golden Miller wrote: »

If you use the term citizen and nationality interchangeably, then fair enough. Britain isn't a nation though, its an island, with 3 distinct countries/nations. So even if it was a nation, the north still wouldn't be part of it

The North is in the UK politically, they are British citizens

And what Nationality would you confer upon downcow?

FrancieBrady

The Golden Miller wrote: »

If you use the term citizen and nationality interchangeably, then fair enough. Britain isn't a nation though, its an island, with 3 distinct countries/nations. So even if it was a nation, the north still wouldn't be part of it

The North is in the UK politically, they are British citizens

The DeSousa mess that they walked themselves into shows that clearly.
By signing the GFA they were clearly stating NI is in a weird unique limbo.
The Irish people who live there can chose their citizenship and it is legally theirs.
If you are born in NI you are automatically a legal Irish citizen...all you have to do is apply for your passport like downcow can and I can.

The Golden Miller

20-30 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

And what Nationality would you confer upon downcow?

Irish. He's also British. Just as someone is Scottish and British. Welsh and British etc

Is someone in Scotland not Scottish, if they were born and bred there, just because they say they aren't?

On what basis would you say Northern Ireland is a nation?

jm08

20-30 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

And Ireland acknowledges NI is part of the UK and it has no claim on the territory know as NI .

We gave that up in exchange that anyone who lives in Northern Ireland has the right to be Irish and that the people who live on this island has a right to self determination (by voting in a referendum).

Its a pity that some are trying to row back on that.

Hamsterchops

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Irish. He's also British. Just as someone is Scottish and British. Welsh and British etc

Is someone in Scotland not Scottish, if they were born and bred there, just because they say they aren't?

On what basis would you say Northern Ireland is a nation?

Quite obviously it's not a nation in isolation, but it is a region within the United Kingdom, hence I presume downcows citizenship is British, as is his Nationality.

Why is this important? Well in the context of trying to woo the Unionist folk of Northern Ireland away from the United Kingdom one must first identify who they are, and they say they are British..

So let's say, for the sake of another ten pages ify argument that they are British, well then how do we make them want to be Irish (instead of British)?

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Quite obviously it's not a nation in isolation, but it is a region within the United Kingdom, hence I presume downcows citizenship is British, as is his Nationality.

Why is this important? Well in the context of trying to woo the Unionist folk of Northern Ireland away from the United Kingdom one must first identify who they are, and that say they are British..

So let's say, for the sake of another ten pages if argument that they are British, well then how do we make them want to be Irish (instead of British)?

So if we have a UI...what are people born in the northern Ireland going to be called?

RobMc59

10-15 years

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

'Northern' Irish isn't a nationality. You're confusing the name of the part of Ireland under UK jurisdiction with nationality.

Billy Connolly doesn't claim to be 'Western Scottish' in a desperate attempt to distance himself from being Scottish.

Tom.as I`ve pointed out previously this speech was made when Ireland was still one nation within the UK in 1912 .

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

Tom.as I`ve pointed out previously this speech was made when Ireland was still one nation within the UK in 1912 .

Still one nation now.

blinding

10-15 years

As downcow is a cow, She is Irish !