How long before Irish reunification?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

I'll frame it another way so. Have the Real IRA the same right to wage a war as the IRA and if not why not?

As I have NEVER seen a revolutionary group hold referenda ...rights to wage a campaign are kind of moot.
What you must not do is create circumstances were these groups will grow or create vacuums (like Dublin did) which these groups will fill.

jh79

15-20 years

jh79 wrote: »

At least your honest about it.

You can be skeptical of the gfa and not pro-violence


Like i wouldnt condone it,but in absence/refusal to hold a border poll....it makes dissidents violence very difficult to condemn imo

If democracy is being blocked/deosnt work,little option left....its why i have distain for those who proposed blocking/cancelling brexit

Hamsterchops

Deleted User wrote: »

Indeed...i await your.condemnation of bombing nazis or iraq,or isis by the brits

Be interesting to see your level of hyprocrisy

No, not Iraq, or Gadaffi or the Nazis.....

We're talking about Northern Ireland.

Hamsterchops

15-20 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

No, not Iraq, or Gadaffi or the Nazis.....

We're talking about Northern Ireland.

So its ok for brits to bomb other countries (like say dub/monahan,anniversairy today)....but a big no-no when this is returned to them,this deosnt seem fair


At least you dont hide your hyprocrisy

Hamsterchops

Deleted User wrote: »

So its ok for brits to bomb other countries (like say dub/monahan,anniversairy today)....but a big no-no when this is returned to them,this deosnt seem fair

At least you dont hide your hyprocrisy

Dear oh dear, I haven't mentioned it being alright to bomb anyone, you've totally lost the plot :mad:

Hope you're hangover isn't too bad in the morning, Goodnight.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As I have NEVER seen a revolutionary group hold referenda ...rights to wage a campaign are kind of moot.
What you must not do is create circumstances were these groups will grow or create vacuums (like Dublin did) which these groups will fill.

I was aking for your personal view on this. SF /IRA negotiated a level of partition that was acceptable for them whether that was a long term goal or a capitulation is up for debate.

Hamsterchops

15-20 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Dear oh dear, I haven't mentioned it being alright to bomb anyone, you've totally lost the plot :mad:

Hope you're hangover isn't too bad, Goodnight.

Deos appear i red your post wrong,:pac:

apoligies are all mine

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

I was aking for your personal view on this.

That is my personal view. Assessing something through a prism set up on the high moral ground is pretty useless I have found in life.

Violence will invariably happen when those in power ignore their responsibilities to all...either willfully or through incompetence.
I prefer to work to make those in power take their responsibilities seriously.

Mortelaro

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As I have NEVER seen a revolutionary group hold referenda ...rights to wage a campaign are kind of moot.
What you must not do is create circumstances were these groups will grow or create vacuums (like Dublin did) which these groups will fill.

I've never seen a thief hold a referendum either,so should we also create conditions in the country where robbers don't see the need to rob?

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

I've never seen a thief hold a referendum either,so should we also create conditions in the country where robbers don't see the need to rob?

Well Mort, since the dawn of time, neither thieves or revolutionaries have seen the need to hold referenda to acquire the right to do what they do. Colonists aren't fond of the old referenda's either. So I don't worry too much about such things.
The conflict/war happened because a situation was allowed to fester until it went up in flames.
There was absolutely nothing delivered in the GFA that could not have been delivered in 68 or 69.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That is my personal view. Assessing something through a prism set up on the high moral ground is pretty useless I have found in life.

Violence will invariably happen when those in power ignore their responsibilities to all...either willfully or through incompetence.
I prefer to work to make those in power take their responsibilities seriously.

An argument that lacks any real substance as it can be applied to terrorism of any hue.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

An argument that lacks any real substance as it can be applied to terrorism of any hue.

It can. And each case can be judged on it's own merit.
Nelson Mandela was once classed a 'terrorist'.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

When did I try to deny the Irish nationality?

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Irish people don’t want the North.

When you write 'Irish people don't want the North' you are excluding the Irish already in the north - if that's not your intention then I suggest you choose the words you write more carefully.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It can. And each case can be judged on it's own merit.
Nelson Mandela was once classed a 'terrorist'.

So explain the difference between the IRA and Real IRA then from your viewpoint?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

So explain the difference between the IRA and Real IRA then from your viewpoint?

One signed up to an agreement that the majority of the island endorsed, the other didn't or hasn't.

Mortelaro

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well Mort, since the dawn of time, neither thieves or revolutionaries have seen the need to hold referenda to acquire the right to do what they do. Colonists aren't fond of the old referenda's either. So I don't worry too much about such things.
The conflict/war happened because a situation was allowed to fester until it went up in flames.
There was absolutely nothing delivered in the GFA that could not have been delivered in 68 or 69.

Well then,why don't you answer the question the lad asked,do dissidents have any right to maim murder or bomb? Instead of not answering because a referendum hasn't been called on it...

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Well then,why don't you answer the question the lad asked,do dissidents have any right to maim murder or bomb? Instead of not answering because a referendum hasn't been called on it...

He/she asked me if 'the Real IRA had the same right to wage a war as the IRA'.

Neither got the 'right' to wage a war. It happened anyway.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

One signed up to an agreement that the majority of the island endorsed, the other didn't or hasn't.

Had the IRA and endorsement from the majority of the island?

Are you suggesting that the IRA and / or the Real IRA could be viewed in the same way as Mandela in the future?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Had the IRA and endorsement from the majority of the island?

I must have missed the vote on that one. I don't know, but I think there was a lot of support before the conflict/war stagnated to a stalemate. SF's support was certainly growing through the conflict and rocketed after. People invariably don't vote for party's if they think they sold out or were defeated.

Are you suggesting that the IRA and / or the Real IRA could be viewed in the same way as Mandela in the future?

Yes.

Redgirl82

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

When you write 'Irish people don't want the North' you are excluding the Irish already in the north - if that's not your intention then I suggest you choose the words you write more carefully.

My words are ok, Thanks for asking

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

My words are ok, Thanks for asking

Doesn't really cover your blushes. Did you forget there were Irish people in the north?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I must have missed the vote on that one. I don't know, but I think there was a lot of support before the conflict/war stagnated to a stalemate. SF's support was certainly growing through the conflict and rocketed after. People invariably don't vote for party's if they think they sold out or were defeated.



Yes.

If they are good at PR a party could, also surveys have shown that a UI isn't a major factor for those voting for SF recently so may not be an endorsement of their past.

For the Mandela question does the yes also apply to the Real IRA?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

If they are good at PR a party could, also surveys have shown that a UI isn't a major factor for those voting for SF recently so may not be an endorsement of their past.

For the Mandela question does the yes also apply to the Real IRA?

They might achieve Mandela status...not in my house though.

downcow

The Golden Miller wrote: »

As Junkyard Tom shows you, Northern Irish isn't a nationality. There is no "Northern Ireland" nation, so how can it bear a nationality? The Irish nation has two political jurisdictions. Your easily confused

So gm can you tell me how you define a nation and why Scotland is one and ni is not?

blinding

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

So gm can you tell me how you define a nation and why Scotland is one and ni is not?

Lets say in a referendum that 50%+1 said that Northern Ireland was not a Country. Would you accept that Democratic decision ?

downcow

blinding wrote: »

Lets say in a referendum that 50%+1 said that Northern Ireland was not a Country. Would you accept that Democratic decision ?

Who would be the participants of this referendum?

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

... but I think there was a lot of support before the conflict/war stagnated to a stalemate. SF's support was certainly growing through the conflict and rocketed after. People invariably don't vote for party's if they think they sold out or were defeated.

Just in case there are any grey areas about the Provisional IRA. The fact is that the PIRA was not widely supported during The Troubles, with Sinn Fein being the 2nd largest Nationalist (Irish Republican) party in Northern Ireland.

It was only after the PIRA murders and bombings stopped that SF support started to rise while the SDLPs power started to stagnate & decline within the Nationalist community.

But let us not forget that any support for "the armed struggle" came from a minority (within a minority), that being the Nationalist minority up North during The Troubles.

SF PIRA support in the South during The Troubles was negligible, if but 'a blip' on the armalite/ballot box radar. However, the PIRA was a major headache for the Dublin authories, with the threat to this state very real from the men of violence.

Thankfully Adams & McGuinness called a halt to The Troubles, and the Belfast - Good Friday Agreement was signed, and the PIRA put their weapons & explosives "beyond use" whatever that means, then peace broke out .......

I've noticed people trying to avoid and replace the term in bold with other terms, hence my bold little reminder.

blinding

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

Who would be the participants of this referendum?

The Electorate of the 6 Counties / Northern Ireland.

downcow

blinding wrote: »

The Electorate of the 6 Counties / Northern Ireland.

Yeah. Goes without saying. If the people of my wee country vote to be united with any other country, roi, Wales, Jamaica, wherever then my country will cease to exist.
Does that prevent a devolved state being formed by consent within that new country, absolutely not.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Doesn't really cover your blushes. Did you forget there were Irish people in the north?

What blushes?

Deleted User wrote: »

Well,then who appointed you as spokesman for irish people,to proclaim they dont want the 6 counties


The only way to ascertain this info,is a border poll

Now you want a poll? It should referendum by the way. Earlier you wanted to discount a census and it’s results.