How long before Irish reunification?

Redgirl82

15-20 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Im not FG. I know that the standard accusation fired out at everyone here.

I am a person with a job and a family. Mortgage etc.

So I don't care if you get your ass off a seat or not. Please explain how Rep of Ireland can support Northern Ireland if we are united?

Everyone seems obsessed with getting it to happen, this is the basic information people would need.

How can we not....NI deficit by imf figures is 4.5 to 5 billion (excluding pensions/security obligations from stated budget)


In 2017,irish state current expense,went from 77 to 81 billion without entering deficit??



Like,your free to believe we cant afford this,but the figures simply say otherwise..

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A lot of work has been done on this already. We have the new Unity Unit proposed.
This won't be a leap in the dark. There is too much at stake.

So where is the work?

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

So where is the work?

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/committee/dail/32/joint_committee_on_the_implementation_of_the_good_friday_agreement/reports/2017/2017-08-02_brexit-and-the-future-of-ireland-uniting-ireland-and-its-people-in-peace-and-prosperity_en.pdf

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/committee/dail/32/joint_committee_on_the_implementation_of_the_good_friday_agreement/reports/2017/2017-08-02_brexit-and-the-future-of-ireland-uniting-ireland-and-its-people-in-peace-and-prosperity_en.pdf

Just had a quick scan of the financial section, is this the report where the 700 mil figure comes from? Given the EU fact check link i posted earlier in the thread predicts anywhere between 2.6 and 12 billion i 'd have serious questions about this report.

Other bits that caught my eye are;
*The report assumes a static global economic outlook obviously that no longer applies.
*This positive model is dependant on FDI , something that nobody in their right mind would want SF in charge of.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Just had a quick scan of the financial section, is this the report where the 700 mil figure comes from? Given the EU fact check link i posted earlier in the thread predicts anywhere between 2.6 and 12 billion.

Other bits that caught my eye are;
*The report assumes a static global economic outlook obviously that no longer applies.
*This positive model is dependant on FDI , something that nobody in their right mind would want SF in charge of.

Oh you can dismiss/argue/champion the work done. The point I made is that work is being done on this and will continue to be, because that is how we prepare for referenda here. More work to be done, no doubt about that too. And the British need to get involved too.
One of their University's has been tasked to have a look at it too. Reporting next year.
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/constitution-unit/research/elections-and-referendums/working-group-unification-referendums-island-ireland

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Adams was shot, shot at, and under threat for most if not all the conflict/war from all sides.
He took risks, not even the most bitter can deny that.

He was actually shot during The Troubles, he was too young to have been in the war, and anyway if he had been in the war, he would have been on the Nazi side, probably as an informer or a spy?

munsterlegend

Hamsterchops wrote: »

He was actually shot during The Troubles, he was too young to have been in the war, and anyway if he had been in the war, he would have been on the Nazi side, probably as an informer or a spy?

How about the war of independence? Does that meet your criteria?

Brendan Bendar

blinding wrote: »

Don’t mind that auld stuff. It'll be grand. Lets take the ride together ! !

I am not a Sinn Fein supporter. I am a much more extreme Irish Nationalist / Irish Republican than Sinn Fein ( though non Violent ).

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

He was actually shot during The Troubles, he was too young to have been in the war, and anyway if he had been in the war, he would have been on the Nazi side, probably as an informer or a spy?

The most comprehensive, fair archival resource on it, is happy enough to refer to it as a conflict,

CAIN Web Service - Conflict and Politics in Northern Ireland.
The CAIN (Conflict Archive on the INternet) Web site contains information and source material on 'the Troubles' and politics in Northern Ireland from 1968 to the present. There is also some material on society in the region. CAIN is located in Ulster University Opens a new browser window. and is part of ARK Opens a new browser window. and INCORE Opens a new browser window.. CAIN and INCORE developed the Accounts of the Conflict

so that is my first descriptor of choice. 'War' is what happens when you put army boots in contested territory, so some where legitimate in calling it a war.
I don't know where 'The Troubles' came from, but it seems likely it was a British term to pretend they were not bothered by it or as Reginald Maulding said they were comfortable with 'an acceptable level of violence'. I reject that term and will not use it as it demeans all the victims and suffering. It had as much impact as any war on them.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/committee/dail/32/joint_committee_on_the_implementation_of_the_good_friday_agreement/reports/2017/2017-08-02_brexit-and-the-future-of-ireland-uniting-ireland-and-its-people-in-peace-and-prosperity_en.pdf

The report recommends the government does it owns study and also a number of times points out the lack of data

At the start it always says this report if out of date

The bit it does have says the Republic or Ireland has nearly no benefit and it would only be of benefit to Northern Ireland. So as expected from a financial point of view the people of Rep of Ireland get screwed to take onboard a mess that Sinn Fein have made. Unless of course the UK take the hit which will not happen. No thanks. We have enough bills to pay without taking on another

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't know where 'The Troubles' came from, but it seems likely it was a British term to pretend they were not bothered by it or as Reginald Maulding said they were comfortable with 'an acceptable level of violence'. I reject that term and will not use it as it demeans all the victims and suffering. It had as much impact as any war on them.

Well I'd suggest it was our own government who came up with The Troubles, after all, they had previous form, having already come up with The Emergency, as a way to describe the Second World War!

Some emergency.

Anyway, The Troubles is an internationally recognised term for the violent mayhem in Northern Ireland, which spanned thirty years approx 1968-98.

When the Irish government decided to get rid of the term British Isles they replaced it with "These islands" which as it happens turned out to be a poor choice, as my cousin from New Zealand tells me (their islands are also These Islands), as are several other island groupings in the world, hence 'these islands' is not unique.

So Francie, if you are to dispense with The Troubles, may I suggest you find a unique title/term so as not to cause confusion, but there have been many wars & conflicts over the last fifty years ...

The Troubles, were unique to Northern Ireland.

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

We have enough bills to pay without taking on another

So that's a no from you then. Shocked.

We won't be 'paying NI's bills',(they won't have any bills for Armed services the monarchy and whatever else they are levied for) northern Ireland will be an intrinsic working part of a new and whole island nation of Ireland.
I believe there will be a majority who see that as an investment, the payoff being way over and above just money.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Well I'd suggest it was our own government who came up with The Troubles, after all, they had previous form, having already come up with The Emergency, as a way to describe the Second World War!

Some emergency.

Did it amount to much more for us as a nation?

Anyway, The Troubles is an internationally recognised term for the violent mayhem in Northern Ireland, which spanned thirty years approx 1968-98.

When the Irish government decided to get rid of the term British Isles they replaced it with "These islands" which as it happens turned out to be a poor choice, as my cousin from New Zealand tells me (their islands are also These Islands), as are several other island groupings in the world, hence 'these islands' is not unique.

So Francie, if you are to dispense with The Troubles, may I suggest you find a unique title/term so as not to cause confusion, but there have been many wars & conflicts over the last fifty years ...

The Troubles, were unique to Northern Ireland.

Well it didn't seem to prevent you from understanding what I was talking about.

You use away at 'the Troubles' HC, I get what you are referencing...I don't need to introduce relatives in NZ or any of that silly palaver.

I won't ever be using it. Having lost family in the conflict/war, I can assure it was more than 'troubling'.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

The report recommends the government does it owns study and also a number of times points out the lack of data

At the start it always says this report if out of date

The bit it does have says the Republic or Ireland has nearly no benefit and it would only be of benefit to Northern Ireland. So as expected from a financial point of view the people of Rep of Ireland get screwed to take onboard a mess that Sinn Fein have made. Unless of course the UK take the hit which will not happen. No thanks. We have enough bills to pay without taking on another

I've watched for days as you've consistently attempted to characterise a UI as a purely transactional event with no benefit to be accrued other than that which may be financial.

There's more to a UI than the financial implications.

We voted for this end State in 1998 with the GFA, so this is the road we're on.

That Partitionists like yourself don't like it is neither here nor there. If you wish to change that fact I would suggest starting an anti-GFA movement.

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That Partitionists like yourself don't like it is neither here nor there. If you wish to change that fact I would suggest starting an anti-GFA movement.

Plenty of lads and lassies to sign up to that a bit further north.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So that's a no from you then. Shocked.

We won't be 'paying NI's bills',(they won't have any bills for Armed services the monarchy and whatever else they are levied for) northern Ireland will be an intrinsic working part of a new and whole island nation of Ireland.
I believe there will be a majority who see that as an investment, the payoff being way over and above just money.

Ok show me these levies they pay? How much are they paying the armed services and monarchy ?

Redgirl82

Deleted User wrote: »

It deosnt come down to money anymore,the way the brits have carried on,surronding this virus has ended the econmic arguement


Those people cant be trusted to govern emselves,no mind part of our island

I agree, Sinn Fein and DUP can’t be trusted. They are making an absolute mess. The UK should just pull the assembly and run it from London

Redgirl82

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I've watched for days as you've consistently attempted to characterise a UI as a purely transactional event with no benefit to be accrued other than that which may be financial.

There's more to a UI than the financial implications.

We voted for this end State in 1998 with the GFA, so this is the road we're on.

That Partitionists like yourself don't like it is neither here nor there. If you wish to change that fact I would suggest starting an anti-GFA movement.

Maybe go back and read again. The Good Friday vote did not include a United Ireland. Did you miss that bit?

To quote: The Good Friday Agreement signed in 1998, which ended the conflict, acknowledged the legitimacy of the desire for a united Ireland, while declaring that it could only be achieved with the consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Ok show me these levies they pay? How much are they paying the armed services and monarchy ?

I will tell you that when the British come aboard the process. Hard to get exact figures. Pearse Doherty tried with the ONS:

Writing in today's Belfast Telegraph, TD Pearse Doherty said his party has engaged with the Office of National Statistics (ONS) to break down Northern Ireland finances.

Acknowledging that genuine concerns exist about the subvention - a grant of money - he argues that there would instead be a £4bn shortfall in the event of a united Ireland.


Mr Doherty said: "For 2017-18, the ONS state that £26.463bn was spent in the north of Ireland, while £17.3bn was raised in taxes. The difference between these two figures (about £9bn) is what people believe to be the subvention - this simply isn't the case.

"Importantly, £3.4bn of this figure is paid out in pensions each year. This would remain the responsibility of the British government in the event of Irish unity, and is already the case for many people living in the south of Ireland who receive a British pension, having paid national insurance contributions during their working life."

The Donegal TD said that a further £1.27bn went towards Britain's £1.8tn national debt.

"This cost would be subject to post-unity negotiations, and when it is, a firm principle must be followed - if the North is made to retain liability for British debt, then it must gain the exact same proportion of British-owned assets," he said.

"£1.1bn of spending on the British military wouldn't exist, and almost all of the £679m 'Outside the UK' spending would vanish.

"When £3.4bn of pension payments are removed, and additional corporation tax is factored in, the mythical subvention figure of £9bn could be slashed by at least £5bn. The remaining £4bn could easily be subsumed into the public finances of the Irish state over time."

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I will tell you that when the British come aboard the process. Hard to get exact figures. Pearse Doherty tried with the ONS:

So no numbers apart from 9 odd billion the UK invests. So we are supposed to be overjoyed if we only have to invest 5-6 billion to keep it afloat every year?

No your ok. Let the UK keep it, see you in 50’years time if Sinn Fein every manage to do any good in Northern Ireland, maybe another parades committee

Redgirl82

15-20 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

I agree, Sinn Fein and DUP can’t be trusted. They are making an absolute mess. The UK should just pull the assembly and run it from London

They have followed londons example??


The DUP have seen to.it,that stormont deosnt work...it has failed utterly as a state for last 100 years,i see no hope nor prospect for any better next 100?,time for unity imo

jm08

20-30 years

Hamsterchops wrote: »

W
When the Irish government decided to get rid of the term British Isles they replaced it with "These islands" which as it happens turned out to be a poor choice, as my cousin from New Zealand tells me (their islands are also These Islands), as are several other island groupings in the world, hence 'these islands' is not unique.

How do you come up with this stuff . The name now is IONA (Islands of the North Atlantic). Sir John Biggs-Davison (a Tory MP) came up with the name.


''These Isles'' are often used when speaking or writing about them though in the same way as you would say ''This country'' or ''this island''.

Redgirl82

Deleted User wrote: »

They have followed londons example??


The DUP have seen to.it,that stormont deosnt work...it has failed utterly as a state for last 100 years,i see no hope nor prospect for any better next 100?,time for unity imo

Power sharing.....can’t blame DUP

Says a lot whenSinn Fein are in government in Northern Ireland and they haven’t a clue about the numbers. Shocking

The Golden Miller

20-30 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Power sharing.....can’t blame DUP

Says a lot whenSinn Fein are in government in Northern Ireland and they haven’t a clue about the numbers. Shocking

Yes, only SF can be blamed it seems

They haven't a clue about numbers Britain won't release?

I take it your an economist? Give us exact figures of what the cost will be?

Give us any indication, other than your own belief, that people in the south don't want a UI?

The Golden Miller

20-30 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

No your ok. Let the UK keep it

Good thing you'll have no say in any of it

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

So no numbers apart from 9 odd billion the UK invests. So we are supposed to be overjoyed if we only have to invest 5-6 billion to keep it afloat every year?

No your ok. Let the UK keep it, see you in 50’years time if Sinn Fein every manage to do any good in Northern Ireland, maybe another parades committee

What are you like?

Plenty of numbers to digest in that link.

And solving the issues of partition for society here? Priceless.
Solving the EU's security/single market issues...worth billions alone.
Solving the UK's Brexit issues...worth more billions.

Pissing off a few partitionists and belligerent unionists? Priceless in it's own way.

RobMc59

10-15 years

jm08 wrote: »

How do you come up with this stuff . The name now is IONA (Islands of the North Atlantic). Sir John Biggs-Davison (a Tory MP) came up with the name.


''These Isles'' are often used when speaking or writing about them though in the same way as you would say ''This country'' or ''this island''.

There`s already an Island named Iona in the Hebrides.

Redgirl82

15-20 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Power sharing.....can’t blame DUP

Says a lot whenSinn Fein are in government in Northern Ireland and they haven’t a clue about the numbers. Shocking

Blame sdlp,alliance and uup.aswell so


To me,who ever you blame or not,stormont deosnt work,nortgern ireland is about 100 years and has failed utterly as an experiment,this virus has shown the border to pointless

And is be costing us billions in an extended lockdown due to british incompetence

Its time to push on with it imo....theres too many of our citizens dying over what english done with this virus

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

There`s already an Island named Iona in the Hebrides.

There was already somewhere called Ulster and northern Ireland. Unionists took those names even though they didn't define what they were naming.

Redgirl82

Deleted User wrote: »

Blame sdlp,alliance and uup.aswell so


To me,who ever you blame or not,stormont deosnt work,this virus has shown the border to v
Be costing us billions in an extended lockdown due to british incompetence

Its time to push on with it imo....theres too many of our citizens dying over what english done with this virus

It didn't take long for the finger pointing by Sinn Fein. One minute we are been told about how great they are, next we are been told they can't do anything because the other parties bully them.

So which is it?

We don't have extended lockdown due to Northern Ireland. We have extended lockdown because Sinn Fein and DUP can't agree a cross border plan. Wales and Scotland have different plans to England. So why can't the North? because Wales and Scotland are not run by imbeciles