How long before Irish reunification?

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why would you have no need?

You accused me of several things...belittling Unionists and of mentioning somebody's religion.

The actual point I was making about Mick Fealty was actually praiseworthy of a Unionist site.

So going forward do we have to check if a website is unionist or not before posting? it wasn't even me that posted it

Why would it make a difference, nobody else mentioned it.

I pointed to your own posts about sections of the Northern Ireland community.

With all the posts today about unionist you clearly have an issue. That's on you, not me. Don't attack someone because they pointed it out to you.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

eagle eye wrote: »

Who wants to partition something that's not already partitioned?

You want Partition of this island to continue.

You are a Partitionist. I will do this all day.

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

So going forward do we have to check if a website is unionist or not before posting? it wasn't even me that posted it

Why would it make a difference, nobody else mentioned it.

I pointed to your own posts about sections of the Northern Ireland community.

With all the posts today about unionist you clearly have an issue. That's on you, not me. Don't attack someone because they pointed it out to you.

It would be like trying to ignore that An Poblacht was an independent source. I am sure there are some fine articles in An Poblacht but I have no doubt what would happen if I posted it as a source here.

And again, I praised Mick Fealty's site in my post.

You accused me of mentioning his religion...are you going to withdraw that attempt to sectarianise the conversation?

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

jh79 wrote: »

Only fear i have is that it will cost me money.

The ONS figure do not give a true cost of an UI and to be fair i posted that EU fact check link that some were quite happy with even though the range of cost was pretty big.

That's fair and a valid response. But at least you own it.

It's okay not to agree with people but outside of yourself its tiresome.

---

True figures are hard to come by as all of us interested in a UI well know. But attempts can be made to parse what's available.

A UI WILL cost money but it will also generate money. It's not like there's this big bill that lands on Unification day and there's lots of cost savings to avail of as well. But we can tease these out.

Just having people shouting "€20billion, fogeddibout" is pointless.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

Your guys went for the 11 billion figure I think and measure of that...totally bad science.

I was the one that said 20 billion minimum.
I then out up the study which puts it at 30 million. Even with the figures being different we are still talking north if 20 million initially and huge money annually for a few years. Upgrading the weaker services in both areas will cost a fortune, I haven't even included that.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

I was the one that said 20 billion minimum.
I then out up the study which puts it at 30 million. Even with the figures being different we are still talking north if 20 million initially and huge money annually for a few years. Upgrading the weaker services in both areas will cost a fortune, I haven't even included that.

But you are using a disputed cost - the subvention - as your base figure.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

BonnieSituation wrote:

Just having people shouting "€20billion, fogeddibout" is pointless.

You haven't a clue and you still have nothing to say about the Trinity college study. I suppose you do struggle to understand words so it's probably very difficult for you to read that document.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

eagle eye wrote: »

I was the one that said 20 billion minimum.
I then out up the study which puts it at 30 million. Even with the figures being different we are still talking north if 20 million initially and huge money annually for a few years. Upgrading the weaker services in both areas will cost a fortune, I haven't even included that.

What's 10billion between friends.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

BonnieSituation wrote:

What's 10billion between friends.

I said it'd cost 20 billion minimum. They say 30 billion.

BonnieSituation

20-30 years

eagle eye wrote: »

You haven't a clue and you still have nothing to say about the Trinity college study. I suppose you do struggle to understand words so it's probably very difficult for you to read that document.

You do love to edit a post don't you, nice ad hominem thrown in to boot.

Should I go to page 35 or 36 is it in the trinity report?

I thought jm80 did a fair decent take down of it. Should I pile on too and twist the knife now that I'm at a computer?

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

You haven't a clue and you still have nothing to say about the Trinity college study. I suppose you do struggle to understand words so it's probably very difficult for you to read that document.

There is a running joke/comment here on the Peace and Reconciliation money train eagle eye.

Somebody asks, 'will we have tea or coffee for breaktime?'
The report costs 300,000e to come up with an answer and keeps the organisation busy and focused for another 6 months. Trust me I have much experience in this and there is a lot of truth in it.

Point: Shelves around the country are lined with 'reports' more or less conceived and put together to keep certain places/organisations funded and going.

jh79

Just want to point out that we are dealing with 2 currencies so figures involved will change and are not necessarily a poster being disingenuous.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

The report I linked isn't one of them though.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

Point: Shelves around the country are lined with 'reports' more or less conceived and put together to keep certain places/organisations funded and going.

The report I linked isn't one of them though.

Redgirl82

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally speaking too many have died as a result of british actions surronding coronavirus....we cant risk same happening here again (this was 3rd corona outbreak in 20 years)and hundreds of our people dying on the island due to actions of the english


Whats 20/30/50 billion,when we're talking about lives here,fcuk.the liberals and their obcession with money over peoples lives tbh

The issue is not with UK, the issue is with Sinn Fein and DUP.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

The report I linked isn't one of them though.

I'm afraid it will be completely obselete if as I suspect the base figure used in it is wrong or overstated.
Compare it to what Pearse Doherty found out from the ONS for example...immediately when you subtract the known contributions to defence and debt, their base figure is bogus/wrong/ill advised/ bad researched...call it whatever you like.
Do you think Pearse Doherty 'made up the figures' by the way?

Redgirl82

15-20 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

The issue is not with UK, the issue is with Sinn Fein and DUP.

Whoever the issue is with...its obvious its not working and hundreds of our citizens are dead vs,if it was ruled from dublin

Stormont deosnt work,NI has been an abject failure as a state,push on and reunify,lets make a success of our island

Edgware

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm afraid it will be completely obselete if as I suspect the base figure used in it is wrong or overstated.
Compare it to what Pearse Doherty found out from the ONS for example...immediately when you subtract the known contributions to defence and debt, their base figure is bogus/wrong/ill advised/ bad researched...call it whatever you like.
Do you think Pearse Doherty 'made up the figures' by the way?

Yes. Thats how S.F. policy works

FrancieBrady

Edgware wrote: »

Yes. Thats how S.F. policy works

So...are you going to back up that or is it just another lie, that will waste all out time trying to get you to admit?

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

Do you think Pearse Doherty 'made up the figures' by the way?

I'd be certain that his figures were done me to make it look a lot less than it really would cost. Was that not his figure that was debunked in the link I provided!

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd be certain that his figures were done me to make it look a lot less than it really would cost. Was that not his figure that was debunked in the link I provided!

Where was that?

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

I put it up at around 3.30pm today, deffo a SF claim of the cost was debunked.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

I put it up at around 3.30pm today, deffo a SF claim of the cost was debunked.

Ok I see it now.

It isn't what I was referring to. That is the study carried out by an American organisation commissioned by SF.
Here is what Doherty said again...there are figures in there, can you dispute them with different figures or explain why they would remain part of the costs?

Each year the British Office of National Statistics (ONS) publishes their 'Country and Regional Public Sector Finances', and of late Sinn Fein have engaged with the ONS to break down the finances in the north of Ireland.

For 2017-18, the ONS state that £26.463bn was spent in the north of Ireland, while £17.3bn was raised in taxes.

The difference between these two figures (about £9bn) is what people believe to be the subvention - this simply isn't the case.

To start, the total £26.463bn is broken down into grimly jargonistic categories of 'Total Identifiable Expenditure', 'Total Non-identifiable Expenditure', 'Total Outside the UK Expenditure' and 'Accounting Adjustments'. So let's put plain English to this.

'Total Identifiable Expenditure' is money we know for certain is spent in the north of Ireland, by the Assembly, local councils and on pensions, directly on public services and benefits. In 2017-18 it was £20.934bn.

Importantly, £3.4bn of this figure is paid out in pensions each year. This would remain the responsibility of the British government in the event of Irish unity, and is already the case for many people living in the south of Ireland who receive a British pension, having paid national insurance contributions during their working life.

Then there is about £2.7bn of 'Total Non-Identifiable Expenditure'. Here the subvention figure begins to come apart. This is money spent directly by the British government in Westminster, and the North receives a bill based on population share.

Some £1.1bn of this spending is the cost the North is made to pay to service the British military. To put this in context, the total Defence spending of the Irish state, with three times the northern population, is just €900m (around £775m).

A further £1.27bn of 'non-identifiable' spending is attributed to the North to service Britain's colossal £1.8trn national debt. This cost would be subject to post-unity negotiations, and when it is, a firm principle must be followed - if the North is made to retain liability for British debt, then it must gain the exact same proportion of British-owned assets.

Next is £679m in 'Total Outside the UK' spending, spent by Westminster on British embassies and political activities abroad. These are services that already exist in Ireland, and as such this spending wouldn't apply in a united Ireland. A portion also goes towards social protection payments for British citizens living abroad, and none of this spending would be applicable post-unity.

Then we look at £2.7bn in what are called 'Accounting Adjustments', a statistical exercise that is beyond the scope of this article. Suffice to say, this is another inflated spending item.

Finally, on the taxation side, researchers estimate that corporation tax in the North is underestimated to the tune of £500m. This is due to the fact that companies in North pay tax directly to Britain, and it is reattributed to the North on the basis of population share, as opposed to the actual profits gained there.

nedkelly123

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

What about all the people up there that dont want to be part of the south.. what if 5% of them are hardliners..
are we going to do the same thing to them as they did to us and expect a different result ?
What about the recent reaction to the RUC celebrations and the love ulster march .. are we going to ignore the fact that 50% of people up there dont share our heritage ... what we do with all them ?

Redgirl82

Deleted User wrote: »

Whoever the issue is with...its obvious its not working and hundreds of our citizens are dead vs,if it was ruled from dublin

Stormont deosnt work,NI has been an abject failure as a state,push on and reunify,lets make a success of our island

Remove Sinn Fein and DUP and problem solved. Put a proper party in place. Sinn Fein and DUP at this stage have shown they are incompedent

Stormont would work with proper political parties.

nedkelly123

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Deleted User wrote: »

Embrace them,noone wants to oppress anyone...but much the ira were never gonna bomb their way to utd ireland,the uda are not gonna bomb their way out of one

Theres more than enough political will and cop-on (pragmatism) among free state politians to compromise and meet their concerns imo

Embrace them ? look what happened in the love ulster march a few years ago...
UDA are perfectly capable of bombing dublin ..

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Remove Sinn Fein and DUP and problem solved.

Nothing like a bit of fascism to solve a problem. It's not North Korea just yet redgirl.

FrancieBrady

nedkelly123 wrote: »

Embrace them ? look what happened in the love ulster march a few years ago...
UDA are perfectly capable of bombing dublin ..

Unionism has again and again shown it has no stomach for a violent campaign.
The best Jamie Bryson could muster over the sea border, that he claimed would invoke apocalyptic consequences, was a few rowdy meetings in the upstairs rooms of a pub. A sea border is going ahead.
Loyalists also only managed to bomb Dublin with the alleged collusion of the British.

Redgirl82

15-20 years

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Remove Sinn Fein and DUP and problem solved. Put a proper party in place. Sinn Fein and DUP at this stage have shown they are incompedent

Stormont would work with proper political parties.

It wont though??
It hasnt worked for last 100 years,ever before sf or dup.come to be top parties there,

Infact its working better now than ever (no sign of civil war),and its still an abject utter failure,by any metric its failed as a state,

years and years without a government for a harmless compromise of a language act,just serves to highlight the mess it is



Einstein labeled stupid,as repeating same thing over and over,and expecting different results

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nothing like a bit of fascism to solve a problem. It's not North Korea just yet redgirl.

Stupid post. If going to quote me at least have the manner to quote the entire post.

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Remove Sinn Fein and DUP and problem solved. Put a proper party in place. Sinn Fein and DUP at this stage have shown they are incompedent

Stormont would work with proper political parties.