How long before Irish reunification?

braidman

was ne temere not responsible for the decline of southern prods as well as emigration

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

Do us a favour FH, you have said your piece, you are not interested/don't care enough to get into more detailed debate. Just leave the thread alone and stop with the mud slinging designed to get a row going?

Sure you are the same you've said your piece over and over again. We get it, you want a UI and you don't care about the unionists that were born and bred in NI.

facehugger99

eagle eye wrote: »

Sure you are the same you've said your piece over and over again. We get it, you want a UI and you don't care about the unionists that were born and bred in NI.

He's more than 100 posts more that the next poster and they're literally all the same point.:pac:

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

He's more than 100 posts more that the next poster and they're literally all the same point.:pac:

You have yet to make a point

facehugger99

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

You have yet to make a point

:rolleyes:

I doubt I've made a post you haven't made it your business to respond to.

Feel free to stick me on ignore or stop replying if you feel there's no point - there's nobody forcing you to follow me around the thread commenting on everything I say.

See if you can manage it with this post.

IAMAMORON

Gotta love the unionists still posting on this thread, I mean the irony of it.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I doubt I've made a post you haven't made it your business to respond to.

Feel free to stick me on ignore or stop replying if you feel there's no point - there's nobody forcing you to follow me around the thread commenting on everything I say.

I’ve asked you several times to make a solid argument.
You haven’t yet at all. You have one imaginary point you keep banging out pointlessly.

Talk about the societal change or what it would look like after or what the campaign for and against would look like.
Try that rather than imaginary fear bullsh!t

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Nothing?


You can keep the head In the sand screaming no. Unless you get out and engage with a good argument it’s going to happen around you and nothing you can do about it.

Screaming no never isn’t enough I’m afraid.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

It'll be economics

That will be the main issue I suspect. By the time a UI comes into focus, all things being equal, a pro-UI vote would change very little except a shift of sovereignty from London to Dublin. Keep the PSNI, convert the GFA into a de facto constitution for a devolved northeast - allow GB input on security for a number of years, and so on.

and the threat of loyalist violence that'll decide the issue for voters in the ROI.

The prospect of unionist terrorism is almost certain. It needs to be factored in to a UI calculation. Unionist terrorism will have no ends (what would they hope to achieve?) but it needs to be dealt with as a given.

Also I don't think anyone is expecting the first border poll to return a UI. This, as I've mentioned earlier, is bigger than one generation or one lifetime. The UI thing simply isn't going away - ever.

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

Sure you are the same you've said your piece over and over again. We get it, you want a UI and you don't care about the unionists that were born and bred in NI.

I am still awaiting a credible answer or even a credible attempt to answer this question:

'Even before the bills and proposals for any of our referendums you care to name were formulated, even when they were just ideas...political voices were supporting or opposing the various positions.

A political party or voice against a UI?...nothing, zero, zilch.

To an aforementioned 'alien' visiting this country, what would they logically assume from that?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

That will be the main issue I suspect. By the time a UI comes into focus, all things being equal, a pro-UI vote would change very little except a shift of sovereignty from London to Dublin. Keep the PSNI, convert the GFA into a de facto constitution for a devolved northeast - allow GB input on security for a number of years, and so on.



The prospect of unionist terrorism is almost certain. It needs to be factored in to a UI calculation. Unionist terrorism will have no ends (what would they hope to achieve?) but it needs to be dealt with as a given.

Also I don't think anyone is expecting the first border poll to return a UI. This, as I've mentioned earlier, is bigger than one generation or one lifetime. The UI thing simply isn't going away - ever.

Agreed on all points except the loyalist terrorism. They don’t have the backing the capability nor the will.

If they even tried it wouldn’t backfire spectacularly and quickly.
Every one of them(less than a hundred at the decision making level ) are known to police and intelligence both here and in the uk.
They wouldn’t have a hope of trying anything.

FrancieBrady

What the British will not want at any cost after unification, is another violent mess on their hands. They will shut down supply routes and support to Loyalists pronto.

Violence, if there is much, would be in their own areas and shortlived.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What the British will not want at any cost after unification, is another violent mess on their hands. They will shut down supply routes and support to Loyalists pronto.

Violence, if there is much, would be in their own areas and shortlived.

Especially in light of the eye for an eye aspect.

The bomb in Canary Wharf cost £1 billion in damage. And forced them to the table.


The bomb cost £500 to make. And all the security cameras in the world didn’t stop it. And it’s was a rented white van into the bargain

And they never found the guy rented it or the guy drove it.


No way the Brits even go near any of that again. And they’re right not to

facehugger99

Arf!

The lads can't even get their stories straight.

There will be Loyalist violence, there won't be, it'll be mostly in Dublin, no it'll be up north, it's really easy to make and set off a bomb, no they'll never manage it without the Brit's help.

It'll be about the economy, no it'll be about our feelings, we might have to change our flag, but we definitely wont't.

All the while feverishly thanking each other's posts.:D

And of course, one lad desperate for attention - any kind of attention.

Hilarious stuff.

RobMc59

10-15 years

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

That will be the main issue I suspect. By the time a UI comes into focus, all things being equal, a pro-UI vote would change very little except a shift of sovereignty from London to Dublin. Keep the PSNI, convert the GFA into a de facto constitution for a devolved northeast - allow GB input on security for a number of years, and so on.



The prospect of unionist terrorism is almost certain. It needs to be factored in to a UI calculation. Unionist terrorism will have no ends (what would they hope to achieve?) but it needs to be dealt with as a given.

Also I don't think anyone is expecting the first border poll to return a UI. This, as I've mentioned earlier, is bigger than one generation or one lifetime. The UI thing simply isn't going away - ever.

Two points you make Tom,by unionist terrorism would you include civil unrest?Also,if a first border poll doesn't return a UI would you anticipate Republican unrest and possible terrorism?

FrancieBrady

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

No way the Brits even go near any of that again. And they’re right not to

The best prepared of all for a UI will be the British. The GFA was the beginning of their withdrawal. They'll quash loyalist resistance in a month.
There will certainly be no appetite in the wider Unionist community for a campaign of violence either.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

Arf!

The lads can't even get their stories straight.

There will be Loyalist violence, there won't be, it'll be mostly in Dublin, no it'll be up north, it's really easy to make and set off a bomb, no they'll never manage it without the Brit's help.

It'll be about the economy, no it'll be about our feelings, we might have to change our flag, but we definitely wont't.

All the while feverishly thanking each other's posts.:D

And of course, one lad desperate for attention - any kind of attention.

Hilarious stuff.

You’re trolling at stage.
Reporting this

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

Two points you make Tom,by unionist terrorism would you include civil unrest?

I'd say so Rob. Also, there might be bomb-scares in the south. I just think people should be prepared for it if there is a backlash - there will be an element within unionism who'll never accept the loss of 'their wee country'.

Also,if a first border poll doesn't return a UI would you anticipate Republican unrest and possible terrorism?

At no greater level than it is currently. I mean, if it's rejected by referendum it's rejected so if anything that would further de-legitimise dissident Republican activity.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'd say so Rob. Also, there might be bomb-scares in the south. I just think people should be prepared for it if there is a backlash - there will be an element within unionism who'll never accept the loss of 'their wee country'.



At no greater level than it is currently. I mean, if it's rejected by referendum it's rejected so if anything that would further de-legitimise dissident Republican activity.

That’s the weirdest post.
So the loyalists would kick off but the nationalists wouldn’t?

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'd say so Rob. Also, there might be bomb-scares in the south. I just think people should be prepared for it if there is a backlash - there will be an element within unionism who'll never accept the loss of 'their wee country'.



At no greater level than it is currently. I mean, if it's rejected by referendum it's rejected so if anything that would further de-legitimise dissident Republican activity.

Listening to SF, I think the only thing that would make it difficult for them to sell to their base, is not defeat in a first border poll (they have talked about it not happening the first time) but a border poll not happening at all.

_blaaz

10-15 years

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

That’s the weirdest post.
So the loyalists would kick off but the nationalists wouldn’t?

Tbh i would much prefer loyalists to kick off than republicans in my area (i live in very republican area in the south)

suicide_circus

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They'll quash loyalist resistance in a month.

like they quashed the IRA, UVF etc in a month?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

suicide_circus wrote: »

like they quashed the IRA, UVF etc in a month?

You should see the Garda and armies overtime budget for watching these clowns, all sides. I can’t say more but they’re watched constantly by us and the British.

FrancieBrady

suicide_circus wrote: »

like they quashed the IRA, UVF etc in a month?

Totally different challenge. Loyalists don't have the south as a hinterland and are much much more localised than the IRA. Have a look at it. They really were never able to mount sophisticated attacks without massive collusion and help.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Totally different challenge. Loyalists don't have the south as a hinterland and are much much more localised than the IRA. Have a look at it. They really were never able to mount sophisticated attacks without massive collusion and help.

They were instructed by MI5 to assassinate Charlie haughey. And with all the resources of the British secret service available to them they couldn’t even manage that.

Work from there.

BarryD2

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Totally different challenge. Loyalists don't have the south as a hinterland and are much much more localised than the IRA. Have a look at it. They really were never able to mount sophisticated attacks without massive collusion and help.

Depends on what tactics they might employ. Sadly as we've seen again and again in recent times, sophistication isn't required. Hard to stop people who say would drive a bus or lorry along a crowded Dublin street. Very crude but effective if you want to spread terror and division.

FrancieBrady

BarryD2 wrote: »

Depends on what tactics they might employ. Sadly as we've seen again and again in recent times, sophistication isn't required. Hard to stop people who say would drive a bus or lorry along a crowded Dublin street. Very crude but effective if you want to spread terror and division.

If there was a tradition of sacrifice you might have a point. But I can't see your average loyalist being to do that tbh. And how quickly do you think their own moderates would turn on that?

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

That’s the weirdest post.
So the loyalists would kick off but the nationalists wouldn’t?

What reason would nationalists have to kick off if the nationalist/catholic/republican demographic themselves didn't vote for a UI?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

BarryD2 wrote: »

Depends on what tactics they might employ. Sadly as we've seen again and again in recent times, sophistication isn't required. Hard to stop people who say would drive a bus or lorry along a crowded Dublin street. Very crude but effective if you want to spread terror and division.

You’re probably unaware of the big ugly ton weight planters with huge trees in the all around the city Center. Especially Henry and grafton Street.
There to prevent what you’re suggesting.

Also Dublin City council and gardai blocking off all avenues on parades like pride with artic trailers to prevent any loon in s car getting ideas.


We spend millions on this a year and it works perfectly because you have never even noticed it.

cameramonkey

20-30 years

The Loyalist terror groups were/ are run by UK intelligence agencies. Mi5, RUC and BA army were directing, arming and training them. Without their help they would be crushed quickly and could get back to their drug dealing and terrorising their own community.