How long before Irish reunification?

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

I’m sorry but i have to put that poster on ignore. Can only assume it’s a wind up artist account. ‘A catholic teacher hit me in school’ sealed the deal.
Completely taking the piss account more like.

facehugger99

dudara wrote: »

But that was then and this is now.

Yes and most of us don't want to go back to violent sectarianism which would be the result and any moves toward unification.

The lads that think 51% in a border poll means it's a done deal are living in a Shinner fantasy world. The very real threat of Loyalist violence, which would be inevitable, will make most voters in the ROI recoil in horror.

The lads up North need to learn to live with each other as a first step before any talks of unification is entertained, recent events have shown no indication of this being a realistic prospect in the immediate future. The idea that they can hoist their disfunction onto us as a problem for us to have to deal with is preposterous.

markodaly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

That will be the main issue I suspect. By the time a UI comes into focus, all things being equal, a pro-UI vote would change very little except a shift of sovereignty from London to Dublin. Keep the PSNI, convert the GFA into a de facto constitution for a devolved northeast - allow GB input on security for a number of years, and so on.



The prospect of unionist terrorism is almost certain. It needs to be factored in to a UI calculation. Unionist terrorism will have no ends (what would they hope to achieve?) but it needs to be dealt with as a given.

Also I don't think anyone is expecting the first border poll to return a UI. This, as I've mentioned earlier, is bigger than one generation or one lifetime. The UI thing simply isn't going away - ever.

Ah, a thought-provoking post worth a reply.

In regards to the first point, I never actually thought about it like that. Swap London for Dublin, but the North keeps Stormont, the flag, the crown, the PSNI (who let's face it are a much better police force than our Gardai) etc..etc..
I wonder would Unionists do what SF currently do and not recognise the legitimacy of Dublin rule. It could work as a transition and a staging post for a UI over a decade or so.

And yes, the threat of loyalist violence will be a given and in fact inevitable and if we are going down this road, must be planned for. Would people in the south get cold feet once bombs start going off in Dublin and Cork? It will harden the resolve of the extreme republican types, but for the ordinary Joe Soap, it could turn them against a UI. All the hassle for little tangible benefit.

And lastly, yes a UI is a very very long term plan. Those thinking that in a few years we are going to have a 32 county Dail, with the Tri-colour flying over Belfast City Hall, while the president is the head of state for the whole Island only, are deluded. This is a 50-year project, if not more.

markodaly

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

They were instructed by MI5 to assassinate Charlie haughey. And with all the resources of the British secret service available to them they couldn’t even manage that.

Work from there.

Is this an urban legend or has some basis in fact?

Dyr

dudara wrote: »

Many people are well aware of the burning of the grand houses and the murder of members of the Royal Irish Constabulary. It was a war of Independence, it was not pretty and there were atrocities on both sides. But that was then and this is now.

Shooting RIC men and burning of Mansions are not the issue at hand, those are known facts.

Poster in question is on about Harts claims that the IRA ethnically cleansed Protestant civilians in various parts of Cork. More attention required.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

markodaly wrote: »

Is this an urban legend or has some basis in fact?

It happened.

Loyalists told Charles Haughey MI5 ‘asked us to execute you’
UVF wrote to taoiseach saying it refused request from British intelligence officer


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/loyalists-told-charles-haughey-mi5-asked-us-to-execute-you-1.3339804

markodaly

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It happened.

Loyalists told Charles Haughey MI5 ‘asked us to execute you’
UVF wrote to taoiseach saying it refused request from British intelligence officer


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/loyalists-told-charles-haughey-mi5-asked-us-to-execute-you-1.3339804

Hmmm, so the source of the claim is the UVF themselves?
Might warrant further investigation alright but certainly not a 'fact' that the M15 ordered it.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

markodaly wrote: »

Hmmm, so the source of the claim is the UVF themselves?
Might warrant further investigation alright but certainly not a 'fact' that the M15 ordered it.

I think if you look at the context of the time and the frosty relationship he had with Thatcher its very likely a fact. What does the UVF even have to gain by telling him anyways?

markodaly

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I think if you look at the context of the time and the frosty relationship he had with Thatcher its very likely a fact. What does the UVF even have to gain by telling him anyways?

Who knows, maybe they wanted Haughey to fear the UVF or try and curry favour with them while gaining some trust. Like its odd for them to tell him and all in the context they did.

"We were ordered to kill you by these guys who are kinda our friends, we refused and told them no, even though we are really enemies and here is me telling you this fact"

M15 ordering the death of a foreign prime minister is something that would have to be approved at the highest levels of the British government. Thatcher herself and the Cabinet in other words. Haughey for all his hard talk didn't really escalate the situation in the North.

I personally call bull on the story itself. If there is another source inside the British government that can corroborate the story than I will change my mind.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

markodaly wrote: »

Who knows, maybe they wanted Haughey to fear the UVF or try and curry favour with them while gaining some trust. Like its odd for them to tell him and all in the context they did.

"We were ordered to kill you by these guys who are kinda our friends, we refused and told them no, even though we are really enemies and here is me telling you this fact"

M15 ordering the death of a foreign prime minister is something that would have to be approved at the highest levels of the British government. Thatcher herself and the Cabinet in other words. Haughey for all his hard talk didn't really escalate the situation in the North.

I personally call bull on the story itself. If there is another source inside the British government that can corroborate the story than I will change my mind.

Haughey didn’t escalate things in the north?
Ehhh you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.
He was giving the Ra money for guns at one stage
And yeah like MI5 or British intelligence is going to admit to conspiring to take out a prime minister of another country


Come back to reality man. It’s a lovey day outside.

markodaly

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Haughey didn’t escalate things in the north?
Ehhh you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.
He was giving the Ra money for guns at one stage
And yeah like MI5 or British intelligence is going to admit to conspiring to take out a prime minister of another country


Come back to reality man. It’s a lovey day outside.

Are talking Haughey in the '70s (arms trial) or Haughey in power? Because in power, for all his talk, he was much tamer than the British feared.

Yes, reality.
M15 taking out another EU leader is James Bond level stuff. It is a lovely day outside alright.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

markodaly wrote: »

Are talking Haughey in the '70s (arms trial) or Haughey in power? Because in power, for all his talk, he was much tamer than the British feared.

Yes, reality.
M15 taking out another EU leader is James Bond level stuff. It is a lovely day outside alright.

Haughey in power pretty much turned a blind eye to ira activity but was fearful of them too. And rightly so for the time. This contributed to Britain’s problem with him. UVF were funded and trained by the British. It’s not James Bond like at all. It was a very different time. Look up the Gibraltar shootings.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Forgot about that. There was already a failed attempt to kill him. This article is a fascinating read. It really was James Bond like

Haughey repaired to Inisvickillane, the island he owned a few miles off the Dingle peninsula, to relax and enjoy a holiday with his family. As Leader of the Opposition, he did not enjoy the same level of protection he had been afforded while serving as Taoiseach. Last month Village described how, during this holiday, MI5 helped the Loyalist terror group, the Red Hand Commando (RHC), in a failed attempt to blow up Haughey’s yacht, The Taurima II, in Dingle Harbour. The RHC was then led by the notorious serial killer and paedophile John McKeague who was an MI5 agent.

https://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2018/03/the-man-from-mi5-asked-us-to-execute-haughey/

RobMc59

10-15 years

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It happened.

Loyalists told Charles Haughey MI5 ‘asked us to execute you’
UVF wrote to taoiseach saying it refused request from British intelligence officer


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/loyalists-told-charles-haughey-mi5-asked-us-to-execute-you-1.3339804

I believe that is covered in the Miami show band massacre documentary,the letter looks false imo.

FrancieBrady

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Haughey in power pretty much turned a blind eye to ira activity but was fearful of them too. And rightly so for the time. This contributed to Britain’s problem with him. UVF were funded and trained by the British. It’s not James Bond like at all. It was a very different time. Look up the Gibraltar shootings.

We know the British were up to their necks colluding and playing both sides off each other i.e. dirty tricks. They have done it everywhere they have been. I would say there were many scenarios played out in the dark corners of British intelligence (if 'intelligence' is the correct word for their behaviour )

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

I believe that is covered in the Miami show band massacre documentary,the letter looks false imo.

Have a read of that article I posted. It disagrees

janfebmar

Bambi wrote: »

Shooting RIC men and burning of Mansions are not the issue at hand, those are known facts.

And the 10 innocent protestants murdered by Republicans in Dunmanway for example, that was ok because there were atrocities committed by all sides.

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We know the British were up to their necks colluding and playing both sides off each other i.e. dirty tricks. They have done it everywhere they have been. I would say there were many scenarios played out in the dark corners of British intelligence (if 'intelligence' is the correct word for their behaviour )

It's a good job they were on the ball when their intelligence saved Bernadette Devlin.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

And the 10 innocent protestants murdered by Republicans in Dunmanway for example, that was ok because there were atrocities committed by all sides.

Nothing that happens in a war/conflict is OK :rolleyes:

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nothing that happens in a war/conflict is OK :rolleyes:

I was being sarcastic. You were the one who condoned IRA activity in the past.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

It's a good job they were on the ball when their intelligence saved Bernadette Devlin.

Are you looking for extra praise because they did their job correctly or trying to deflect from the many instances of dirty tricks and collusion?

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

I was being sarcastic. You were the one who condoned IRA activity in the past.

I never condoned an act of violence in my life.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I never condoned an act of violence in my life.

That's because you do not consider IRA activity or actions to have been acts of violence. Only the hated British and Loyalists committed acts of violence.

We have gone though all that before.

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you looking for extra praise because they did their job correctly or trying to deflect from the many instances of dirty tricks and collusion?

You implied they are incompetent which is not the case as this incident proves.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

That's because you do not consider IRA activity or actions to have been acts of violence. Only the hated British and Loyalists committed acts of violence.

We have gone though all that before.

We will try this for a last time.

I believe all that happened in the conflict/war was wrong....every single last act.

I blame the Government responsible for making equality available to all citizens for allowing a ethnically imbalanced state (Created by a partition that was wrong) to go up in flames.

I understand why the violence started and I understand why each side engaged in it.
To this day I do not understand why the British were shoring up one side for so long and had to be brought to the table basically by bombs going off in the heart of Britain.

If can claim I condone any of it, you are quite simply, a liar.

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

Who was the woman in the 1980s that MI5(I think?) tried to arrest beside the GPO and they didn’t have permission to be here to arrest her? And the agent was chased and fired a shot to keep a crowd trying to protect her away?
I saw it on reeling in the years and can’t recall her name or why they tried to arrest her

Stop moaning ffs

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

That's because you do not consider IRA activity or actions to have been acts of violence. Only the hated British and Loyalists committed acts of violence.

We have gone though all that before.

Your every post is complaining about catholic’s and Irish people.

Are you even from here?

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

You implied they are incompetent which is not the case as this incident proves.

When you see what their actions did in Ireland alone, as I do as an Irish man, you might try and understand why I would 'imply' incompetence. In fact, I don't 'imply' it, I am claiming it in full blood.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

To this day I do not understand why the British were shoring up one side for so long and had to be brought to the table basically by bombs going off in the heart of Britain.

.

The British were at the table looking for peace in the early seventies when they flew Adam's and other Republicans to London for talks, in an effort to stop the violence. The IRA would not stop their armed struggle until they got the British out of Ireland , they said.

FrancieBrady

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Who was the woman in the 1980s that MI5(I think?) tried to arrest beside the GPO and they didn’t have permission to be here to arrest her? And the agent was chased and fired a shot to keep a crowd trying to protect her away?
I saw it on reeling in the years and can’t recall her name or why they tried to arrest her

Evelyn Glenholmes