How long before Irish reunification?

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

I proposed making available 'relocation grants' for those people who couldn't afford what Arlene Foster said she would do, which is to 'leave'.

How would you feel if it went the other way and 70% voted against a UI? Would you be proposing relocation grants for any pro-UI person?

FrancieBrady

eagle eye wrote: »

How would you feel if it went the other way and 70% voted against a UI? Would you be proposing relocation grants for any pro-UI person?

I don't see anyone saying they couldn't live with that result, 18% of those polled said 'they couldn't live with the result'. Why should Arlene Foster be able to leave because she has the means and nobody else can?

Nobody is saying what they would propose doing for these people.

blanch152

eagle eye wrote: »

How would you feel if it went the other way and 70% voted against a UI? Would you be proposing relocation grants for any pro-UI person?

There was such a vote in 1975.

Based on Francie's post history, if that result was repeated, he would understand and explain them taking up arms and bombing Birmingham, Brighton and Canary Wharf.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

There was such a vote in 1975.

Based on Francie's post history, if that result was repeated, he would understand and explain them taking up arms and bombing Birmingham, Brighton and Canary Wharf.

1973 I think, don't you read janfebmar's many posts on it? :rolleyes:

Fionn1952

15-20 years

blanch152 wrote: »

eagle eye wrote: »

How would you feel if it went the other way and 70% voted against a UI? Would you be proposing relocation grants for any pro-UI person?

There was such a vote in 1975.

Based on Francie's post history, if that result was repeated, he would understand and explain them taking up arms and bombing Birmingham, Brighton and Canary Wharf.

Not to support Francie's point on relocation (forced or otherwise), but for the sake of not totally undermining what is a reasonably logical perspective, can we all just cut out the nonsensical pretense that this particular vote was in any way representative of public opinionat the time? (Also, it was '73, not '75)

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Not to support Francie's point on relocation (forced or otherwise), but for the sake of not totally undermining what is a reasonably logical perspective, can we all just cut out the nonsensical pretense that this particular vote was in any way representative of public opinionat the time? (Also, it was '73, not '75)

There hasn't been a single word in my posts about a 'forced' anything. It has always been in response to the poll where 18% said 'they can't live with a UI'

I am interested in what people would propose doing for those people. Will they just ignore them and allow the wealthier ones to leave or do they see it as an option to offer them relocation grants.

Please don't fall into the lie that people are trying to spread about what I said.

_blaaz

10-15 years

Anywhoo instead of lads screaming abuse at eaxh other or engaging in gaslighting and bullying

Heres some.actual substamce of note to discuss,ex-UUP leader mike nesbitt rather accurately imo has measured that ulster unionists could be near permenant in power here and no reason they cant carve out a future post reunification


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/unionists-could-hold-balance-of-power-into-perpetuity-in-all-ireland-parliament-1.3965774?mode=amp



IMO....they will have more a say in a utd ireland,than ever will in uk and hopefully they would mature,and actually represnt there constituemts (as opposed.screaimg shinner at everyone,should leave that to boards :pac: ) and a leftish voice could emerge to represent the poorest of unionists/loyalists they are disgracfully being ignored

janfebmar

_blaaz wrote: »

IMO....they will have more a say in a utd ireland,than ever will in uk

ever will in UK? They hold the balance of power in the UK, a G7 member. A pretty powerful position to be in. In the event of a United Ireland, it is quite likely various measures would be introduced to persuade them to "up tents" as one person said.

FrancieBrady

_blaaz wrote: »

Anywhoo instead of lads screaming abuse at eaxh other or engaging in gaslighting and bullying

Heres some.actual substamce of note to discuss,ex-UUP leader mike nesbitt rather accurately imo has measured that ulster unionists could be near permenant in power here and no reason they cant carve out a future post reunification


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/unionists-could-hold-balance-of-power-into-perpetuity-in-all-ireland-parliament-1.3965774?mode=amp



IMO....they will have more a say in a utd ireland,than ever will in uk and hopefully they would mature,and actually represnt there constituemts (as opposed.screaimg shinner at everyone,should leave that to boards :pac: ) and a leftish voice could emerge to represent the poorest of unionists/loyalists they are disgracfully being ignored

Good to see a reasonable conversation starting in moderate unionism. I always thought they are pragmatic people at the end of the day.

Also brilliant to read a Unionist accepting this and spreading the word among his own.

It is increasingly accepted that the unionist warning that ‘home rule is Rome rule’ was accurate at the time, just as it is indisputable that it is no longer the case,” he wrote.

“The Ireland of today is a progressive, pluralist country embracing previously unimaginable social policies like marriage equality and reproductive rights

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Also brilliant to read a Unionist accepting this and spreading the word among his own.

Did he listen to the Republicans who warned of getting the land they stole back, of renaming roads and parks and places with patriots names and as gaelige, of just offering state jobs and most university places to those who could speak gaelige (like happened here)? Did he listen to you when you said you would be in favour of helping him "up tents" and resettle overseas?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There hasn't been a single word in my posts about a 'forced' anything. It has always been in response to the poll where 18% said 'they can't live with a UI'

I am interested in what people would propose doing for those people. Will they just ignore them and allow the wealthier ones to leave or do they see it as an option to offer them relocation grants.

Please don't fall into the lie that people are trying to spread about what I said.

It is simple for me, as I have previously explained, nation without country is the way to go. No need for a united Ireland, no need to change anything and upset anyone.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It is simple for me, as I have previously explained, nation without country is the way to go. No need for a united Ireland, no need to change anything and upset anyone.

In which case the issue doesn't arise.

I am asking specifically if it does happen, what would you propose?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In which case the issue doesn't arise.

I am asking specifically if it does happen, what would you propose?

What would happen if we became part of the UK again, how should those who don't like it be dealt with?

I mean, if we are dealing with purely hypotethical questions, why your one?

theguzman

15-20 years

On a practical level what would happen to so many facets of life, would EIR subsume the BT Network, would An Post take over the Royal Mail function, would British brands like EE remain in the former 6 counties, I could see the increased social welfare allowance of the ROI being an incentive if you were a NI Dole waster or an OAP considering we have higher rates, they would have to convert from Pounds to Euro of course. Then would all NI cars have to be reregistered? We would have to make the taxation system harmonious so they wouldn't lose out, I think a 20 year style of implementation post UI Vote might be needed.

blanch152

theguzman wrote: »

On a practical level what would happen to so many facets of life, would EIR subsume the BT Network, would An Post take over the Royal Mail function, would British brands like EE remain in the former 6 counties, I could see the increased social welfare allowance of the ROI being an incentive if you were a NI Dole waster or an OAP considering we have higher rates, they would have to convert from Pounds to Euro of course. Then would all NI cars have to be reregistered? We would have to make the taxation system harmonious so they wouldn't lose out, I think a 20 year style of implementation post UI Vote might be needed.

All of those issues indicate that the costs of unification have been seriously underestimated.

cameramonkey

20-30 years

blanch152 wrote: »

All of those issues indicate that the costs of unification have been seriously underestimated.

So you just thought about those cost now? Show a serious lack thinking on your part. Luckily most people who have even a cursory thought about the issue would have looked at these pretty basic facts.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

What would happen if we became part of the UK again, how should those who don't like it be dealt with?

I mean, if we are dealing with purely hypotethical questions, why your one?

Ok.
I don't get why you don't want to answer a simple question about something that despite what you contend has a realistic chance of happening. For something you consider 'hypothetical' you spend a lot of time and energy putting blocks in the way of it.
Thankfully it seems that those that matter 'moderate Unionists' are showing that they are thinking of a possible future.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ok.
I don't get why you don't want to answer a simple question about something that despite what you contend has a realistic chance of happening. For something you consider 'hypothetical' you spend a lot of time and energy putting blocks in the way of it.
Thankfully it seems that those that matter 'moderate Unionists' are showing that they are thinking of a possible future.

I don't spend a lot of time and energy putting blocks in the way of it.

I just point out the fantastical nature of the united Ireland idea.

You avoided the question.

blanch152

cameramonkey wrote: »

So you just thought about those cost now? Show a serious lack thinking on your part. Luckily most people who have even a cursory thought about the issue would have looked at these pretty basic facts.

No, I have thought about the costs for quite a while.

I believe that the costs floated around to date have seriously underestimated the costs of unification, or seriously underestimated the cuts needed to social welfare in the South, and the tax increases needed in the South

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I don't spend a lot of time and energy putting blocks in the way of it.

I just point out the fantastical nature of the united Ireland idea.

You avoided the question.

I did.

If there were people who could not live with the result of a vote to rejoin the UK then I would be in favour of helping them. As I said, I would not force anybody to live in a state that was being created from new.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

No, I have thought about the costs for quite a while.

I don't spend a lot of time and energy putting blocks in the way of it.

Why think about it at all if it's a 'fantasy'? Weird behaviour trait. I don't spend any time thinking about Love Island, that is why you will never find me posting on a thread about it. Yet here you are on every single thread about a UI, passionately postulating on something you 'don't spend a lot of time and energy putting blocks in the way of...'.

Colour me not convinced.

cameramonkey

20-30 years

Boris J and his new cabinet are hastening the day of the UK break up. The SNP must be looking on with a smile on their face. BJ and his crew are a red rag to a bull for most Scottish people. Hopefully this time around they will take the step away for the UK and become a nation once again. This UK government is a Godsend for people who support the idea of a fractured UK.

_blaaz

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

ever will in UK? They hold the balance of power in the UK, a G7 member. A pretty powerful position to be in. In the event of a United Ireland, it is quite likely various measures would be introduced to persuade them to "up tents" as one person said.

And what exact policies have the dup seen implemented in last 2 years?


All theyve done is block,delay and stall progress to point which they will unlikely ever be given a billion pound again for coalition.....this is not goverence or holding power

Most unionists i know are well sick of their.carry on anyway....but dont feel have anyone else to vote for

janfebmar

_blaaz wrote: »

And what exact policies have the dup seen ..

By being elected MPs to Westminster they have power. At least they take up their seats and vote there. You cannot claim they have no power

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I did.

If there were people who could not live with the result of a vote to rejoin the UK then I would be in favour of helping them. As I said, I would not force anybody to live in a state that was being created from new.

You effectively condoned the use of the stick before, during the troubles, by condoning the pira campaign. Why would Republicans use the more expensive "carrot" method to cleanse the province of black protestants when the stick ( and further intimidation, violence if necessary), not to mention just making it a very cold house for them, would be a lot cheaper?

facehugger99

_blaaz wrote: »

IMO....they will have more a say in a utd ireland,than ever will in uk

Yet another reason why any referendum would be rejected by ROI voters.

FrancieBrady

cameramonkey wrote: »

Boris J and his new cabinet are hastening the day of the UK break up. The SNP must be looking on with a smile on their face. BJ and his crew are a red rag to a bull for most Scottish people. Hopefully this time around they will take the step away for the UK and become a nation once again. This UK government is a Godsend for people who support the idea of a fractured UK.

I have said before the Scottish Ref that we are looking at the slow break-up of the UK.(over a 20 year period)
I thought it was happening in their politics even before Brexit came along. There was so much papering over cracks going on, but Brexit has accelerated that process even more. I didn't think it could be accelerated even more until yesterday and the election by 0.00010% (or whatever it was)of the people.
At a time when they need the most comprehensive view of the people they do this.
The UK is terminally paralysed, chaotic and steaming fast towards the inevitable because like partition it was flawed from the beginning, it's very strength -England, will be it's eventual undoing.

_blaaz

10-15 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

Yet another reason why any referendum would be rejected by ROI voters.

You want people to reject a utd ireland because you dont want unionists to have a voice in our future on this island??


Very very bigoted imo??why should unionists not have a say in a utd ireland?

_blaaz

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

By being elected MPs to Westminster they have power. At least they take up their seats and vote there. You cannot claim they have no power

So....infact you cant outline any policies they have enacted?

Fionn1952

15-20 years

janfebmar wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I did.

If there were people who could not live with the result of a vote to rejoin the UK then I would be in favour of helping them. As I said, I would not force anybody to live in a state that was being created from new.

You effectively condoned the use of the stick before, during the troubles, by condoning the pira campaign. Why would Republicans use the more expensive "carrot" method to cleanse the province of black protestants when the stick ( and further intimidation, violence if necessary), not to mention just making it a very cold house for them, would be a lot cheaper?

I know you like to pick a little phrase, get very proud of it and repeat it endlessly, but what exactly are you trying to achieve with the, 'black protestants' nonsense? It is totally distracting from the actual topic.