How long before Irish reunification?

facehugger99

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If however in 5 or 7 or 10 generations it's actually NOT in NI's best interests to have a UI I don't think anything would persuade them towards it.

It is actually ROI voters who will have the ultimate say on the matter.

The Nordies are voting on who gets to be their sugar daddy, we’ll be voting on picking up the tab.

It’s a position that has very little appeal even if the question is asked hypothetically. The actual reality of paying a unification tax will never be accepted by ROI voters.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

It is actually ROI voters who will have the ultimate say on the matter.

The Nordies are voting on who gets to be their sugar daddy, we’ll be voting on picking up the tab.

It’s a position that has very little appeal even if the question is asked hypothetically. The actual reality of paying a unification tax will never be accepted by ROI voters.

That they are dependent on subvention is not their fault, but the fault of those who engineered partition and those who were happy to ignore the results of that partition.

Very soon it will primarily be in Ireland's interests that we get NI off the ship called Brexit to minimise the crippling effects of the same Brexit.
The EU are going to want that arrangement too, because it is perfect for them in terms of securing it's prize jewel - The SM
And it will be what Britain wants (but may never say publicly) because they have already tacitly withdrawn anyhow in signing the GFA, not to mention, attempting to throw Unionism under the bus 3 times in order to get the Brexit they want.

So the only people nay saying a UI will be belligerent Unionism and a handful of bitter partitionists with no political voice, fulminating about 'Nordies' on the internet and writing letters to the Irish Times and nodding in agreement at Kevin Myers* on the telly etc

*Maybe not...is he in disgrace or something?

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So the only people nay saying a UI will be belligerent Unionism and a handful of bitter partitionists with no political voice,

Given this is the case apparently, isn't it amazing that only 37% of people say they would be willing to pay for it? :pac:

You'll be lucky to get to 20% in an actual referendum and they'll be the bottom-feeders who don't actually pay for anything anyway.

Best of luck with those numbers Francie

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Given this is the case apparently, isn't it amazing that only 37% of people say they would be willing to pay for it? :pac:

You'll be lucky to get to 20% in an actual referendum and they'll be the bottom-feeders who don't actually pay for anything anyway.

Best of luck with those numbers Francie

You do realise how much things (the future economic outlook if Britain Brexits for instance) have changed in just 2 years?

A northern Ireland out of the EU has the very very real prospect of costing us a lot of that thing that seems most precious to you...money.

How many of that 37% will change their minds if it is shown that in the short to medium term it will save their precious money? How many of the 26% would make up their minds?

Keep clinging to the results of that poll.

FrancieBrady

Arlene and the DUP want Brexit because the majority in the UK voted for it and despite the fact that her home NI voted against it.

Boris wants the backstop out because it isn't 'democratic' apparently.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/johnson-calls-irish-backstop-anti-democratic-1.3969719?fbclid=IwAR3h10CqG0LYC3Ljb0o2caa8PzX85ZzeDZGfBRH3DkfJfntAMe5jiCeB7CE

Isn't it a shame these two were not around at the time of partition to review the results of the elections then. Majorities and democracy, indeed.

janfebmar

If we had a referendum here on something (say something to do with sexual rights or abortion or something), and Donegal or Mayo voted a different way to the rest of the country, there would be no exception made for them.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The EU are going to want that arrangement ...

The EU would be better off letting the UK deal with the headache of Northern Ireland and its 10 billion a year or whatever subsidy. If there was a United Ireland the EU would end up bailing us out again, plus it would probably have gross civil unrest within its borders, bombs going off in Dublin etc. We would not even allow an IRA victims March in Dublin so could you imagine the rioting if we tried to stop 12th parades, bonfires etc in the case of a United Ireland? No way the people of Ireland would want to pay a unification tax and deal with the problems of N. Ireland.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

The EU would be better off letting the UK deal with the headache of Northern Ireland and its 10 billion a year or whatever subsidy. If there was a United Ireland the EU would end up bailing us out again, plus it would probably have gross civil unrest within its borders, bombs going off in Dublin etc. We would not even allow an IRA victims March in Dublin so could you imagine the rioting if we tried to stop 12th parades, bonfires etc in the case of a United Ireland? No way the people of Ireland would want to pay a unification tax and deal with the problems of N. Ireland.

A united Ireland best secures the jewel in the EU crown - The Single Market. Fact.
We did allow a 'victims' parade in Dublin but there was a riot after the usual provocation and threat to parade a picture of a man alleged to have bombed the very city they were parading in.


Nobody has a problem with respectful, non triumphalist parading. If they can find the appetite for a parade in the south - who has a problem with it?

ILoveYourVibes

facehugger99 wrote: »

It’s a position that has very little appeal even if the question is asked hypothetically. The actual reality of paying a unification tax will never be accepted by ROI voters.

That would depend on how the north was in 5 generations or ten etc. It could be economically different by then.

I agree it would have to be a different place economically for ROI to agree to unification.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A united Ireland best secures the jewel in the EU crown - The Single Market. Fact.

We did allow a 'victims' parade in Dublin but there was a riot after the usual provocation and threat to parade a picture of a man alleged to have bombed the very city they were parading in.


Nobody has a problem with respectful, non triumphalist parading. If they can find the appetite for a parade in the south - who has a problem with it?

We already have a single market in Europe. Unrest in Ireland and the EU paying 10 billion a year extra will not secure it further.

There was no picture displayed in Dublin of a alleged bomber. It was the Republicans who rioted and looted shops in Dublin, not the IRA victims and their families.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

We already have a single market in Europe. Unrest in Ireland and the EU paying 10 billion a year extra will not secure it further.

You clearly haven't been following the shambles of the UK trying to leave the EU so.

There was no picture displayed in Dublin of a alleged bomber. It was the Republicans who rioted and looted shops in Dublin, not the IRA victims and their families.

Done to death already on another thread...I think it ended with you valiantly proposing that Irish = Bad / Loyalist = Good. And we know what happened after that.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Done to death already on another thread...I think it ended with you valiantly proposing that Irish = Bad / Loyalist = Good. And we know what happened after that.

No, most Irish are good. I have always condemned the paramilitaries on both sides, unlike you. You however think the only real Irish are Republicans. We all know what happened after you lost the debate.
Have you got over yet from the shock of discovering (after I told you) that Develera shot by firing squad 6 IRA men in Irish prison ?

_blaaz

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

No, most Irish are good. I have always condemned the paramilitaries on both sides, unlike you. You however think the only real Irish are Republicans. We all know what happened after you lost the debate.

Tbh to.me theres no moral distinction between paramilitarys and security forces in what went on in the 6 counties

Have you got over yet from the shock of discovering (after I told you) that Develera shot by firing squad 6 IRA men in Irish prison ?

There wasnt 6 shot,some were hung?.....your grasp of reality is very weak

janfebmar

_blaaz wrote: »

Tbh to.me theres no moral distinction between paramilitarys and security forces in what went on in the 6 counties


There wasnt 6 shot,some were hung?.....your grasp of reality is very weak

The first 4 were shot, and I named them. Can you name the other 2 for Francie, he never knew about that chapter in Republican history at all and as his opinion of Dev has gone down!

janfebmar

_blaaz wrote: »

Tbh to.me theres no moral distinction between paramilitarys and security forces in what went on in ...

And Garda McCabe and other Irish security force members paid the price.

_blaaz

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

And Garda McCabe and other Irish security force members paid the price.

Its somewhat difficult to feel sorry for anyone who.carries a gun,esp.special branch the way they carry on....who gets emswlves shot



Wasnt ben osullivan implicated in killing an ira member in clare?

janfebmar

_blaaz wrote: »

Its somewhat difficult to feel sorry for anyone who.carries a gun,esp.special branch the way they carry on....who gets emswlves shot

So you have no sympathy for the like of Garda Jerry McCabe who "got himself shot" by the pira, or for any of our Gardai or army who were shot by the provos or other Republicans.

_blaaz

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

So you have no sympathy for the like of Garda Jerry McCabe who "got himself shot" by the pira, or for any of our Gardai or army who were shot by the provos or other Republicans.

Not for anyone carrying guns tbh??

Neither for any paramilitaries who get emselves shot...if you arm yourself and put yourself in harms way....kinda have to accept rough with smooth




As an aside,its generally believed that the irish army private killed during troubles was a friendly fire incident

janfebmar

_blaaz wrote: »

As an aside,its generally believed that the irish army private killed during troubles was a friendly fire incident

It is not actually. When the Irish army private pulled back the tarpaulin in the woods, in the search for the kidnap victim, he was shot at close range by the pira.

janfebmar

_blaaz wrote: »

Not for anyone carrying guns tbh??

So you think none of our Gardai or Irish army soldiers should carry guns, and the only true army of Ireland is or was one controlled by extremist Republicans.

_blaaz

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

It is not actually. When the Irish army private pulled back the tarpaulin in the woods, in the search for the kidnap victim, he was shot at close range by the pira.

Except he was shot in back in a panic by the gaurds??


Why do you think.the irish army has refused to mount joint chexkpoints with armed gaurds since then??

This is a widely held belief in irish military and even garda circles,hence why governemnt didnt row in behind his family when looking for justice

Theres few states as good as ireland as burying and hiding its fcukups


Your welcome to.critise the pira for being murdering bastards (they were).....just they didnt commit this one

_blaaz

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

So you think none of our Gardai or Irish army soldiers should carry guns, and the only true army of Ireland is or was one controlled by extremist Republicans.

Except nowhere have i said this?? (Somewhat weird you missed second line in post where i clarified this)


If you carry a gun into volitile situation...cant complain if shot at imo....be you ira,udr,lvf special branch ruc,bank robbers etc etc....

RobMc59

10-15 years

_blaaz wrote: »

Except nowhere have i said this??


If you carry a gun into volitile situation...cant complain if shot at imo....be you ira,udr,lvf special branch ruc,bank robbers etc etc....

So you saying legitimate state representatives of Ireland or Britain are fair game for terrorists?

janfebmar

_blaaz wrote: »

Except nowhere have i said this?? (Somewhat weird you missed second line in post where i clarified this)


If you carry a gun into volitile situation...cant complain if shot at imo....be you ira,udr,lvf special branch ruc,bank robbers etc etc....

Garda Jerry McCabe was shot by the IRA during a botched bank robbery in Co. Clare ( I think it was)....you have no sympathy for Garda McCabe...it was his own fault for having a job trying to protect the states money?

_blaaz

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

So you saying legitimate state representatives of Ireland or Britain are fair game for terrorists?

Are they carrying guns?

Pretty simple.if youve read my posts....im abit dismayed that you havnt read my posts clarifying anyone.carrying a gun has to.accept risks that go.with it


Perhaps some further considered comprehension on your part would be helpful

_blaaz

10-15 years

janfebmar wrote: »

Garda Jerry McCabe was shot by the IRA during a botched bank robbery in Co. Clare ( I think it was)....you have no sympathy for Garda McCabe...it was his own fault for having a job trying to protect the states money.

Post office robbery in limerick btw.....your grasp.of facts is poor here to the extent it confirms yous arent ireland based


This is generally accepted as not being a robbery though (hint nothing was stolen).....but ya,no sympathy....carrying a gun,comes with risks



Detwctive Garda ben o sullivan was also shot that day,(he too is implicated in killing a person afaik)

RobMc59

10-15 years

_blaaz wrote: »

Are they carrying guns?

Pretty simple.if youve read my posts....im abit dismayed that you havnt read my posts clarifying anyone.carrying a gun has to.accept risks that go.with it


Perhaps some further considered comprehension on your part would be helpful

It`s a simple question -do you consider legitimately authorised representatives of Ireland or the UK fair game for terrorists?

_blaaz

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

It`s a simple question -do you consider legitimately authorised representatives of Ireland or the UK fair game for terrorists?

Are they armed??(somewhat amusing the way you wish to ignore people being armed tbh)

Do you consider armed republicans(or unionist) terrorists to be legimate targets



What is moral difference in killing a soldier vs a paramilitary

RobMc59

10-15 years

_blaaz wrote: »

Are they armed??(somewhat amusing the way you wish to ignore people being armed tbh)

Do you consider armed republicans(or unionist) terrorists to be legimate targets



What is moral difference in killing a soldier vs a paramilitary

I`ll take it from your frantic attempts to back track you can`t answer as you know you`re wrong.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

_blaaz wrote:

Its somewhat difficult to feel sorry for anyone who.carries a gun,esp.special branch the way they carry on....who gets emswlves shot

So you think then that his killers should not have got released from prison early?