How long before Irish reunification?

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but unless you're willing to sacrifice your children's futures on the altar of Francie's land-grab dreams, you're a very selfish person (probably somewhat arrogant too).

Yeh, I can just hear the conversation in your house: 'It's ok, dad says the border up the road will have no affect on us.'

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yeh, I can just hear the conversation in your house: 'It's ok, dad says the border up the road will have no affect on us.'

In my house, we'll be more concerned with the €64bn of trade we have with the mainland UK and the hundreds of thousands of jobs that could be significantly impacted by a hard-Brexit - but then again, I have a pretty intelligent family.


I'm sure you can just stick on a Wolfe Tones album and drown out the world of reality.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

FrancieBrady wrote:

You call it waffle and then you make the archetypal 'I'm alright Jack' reply.

Whatever you want to call it is fine by me.
I've given you my reasons for not wanting a UI. I think it will happen some day but I think a period where NI stands on its own two feet will come before then. It'll take quite a few generations to move away from Unionism and Nationalism and only them will it be the right time to consider a UI.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

facehugger99 wrote:

I'm sorry, but unless you're willing to sacrifice your children's futures on the altar of Francie's land-grab dreams, you're a very selfish person (probably somewhat arrogant too).

Please don't use my post to have a dig at somebody else.

Dytalus

15-20 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

In my house, we'll be more concerned with the €64bn of trade we have with the mainland UK

2017 Service Imports from UK: €16.5 billion
2017 Service Exports to UK: €26.3 billion
2017 Goods Imports from UK:€1.6 billion
2017 Goods Exports to UK:€1.4 billion
Total Trade (Exports/Imports) for 2017: €45.8 billion

Difference: €64 billion - €45.8 billion = €18.2 billion (Roughly a 40% inflation).

[Source]

facehugger99 wrote: »

but then again, I have a pretty intelligent family..

Intelligent they may be (nice humble brag. The subtle dig is not so nice. Can we leave families out of any 'subtle' sniping?), but they do seem misinformed. At the very least, you are misinformed.

I've not seen Francie actually cheer on a hard brexit anywhere. While I'd consider myself in favour of a UI I definitely don't want a hard Brexit for anyone's sake. Granted, their aspirations for a UI are considerable more energetic than mine, and I gloss over large swathes of the back-and-forward chaos in this thread. I'm sure if they've actually said "bring on no-deal" or words to that effect you're able to provide me with a quote?

Fionn1952

15-20 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

eagle eye wrote: »

This is all waffle. You can call me what you want. It's my job to insulate me and my family from trouble and that's what I'll be trying to do my whole life.

You call it waffle and then you make the archetypal 'I'm alright Jack' reply.

In fairness, Francie, if it boiled down to an outright choice between unity or the physical safety of my family, you could paint me partitionist in a blink. I'd be straight into, 'I'm alright Jack' mode.

The safety and security of my family is my number one priority, always will be.

I personally don't believe that unification would pose that risk (for a variety of reasons), but let's be totally frank here, if your planned strategy is to insult everyone who expresses concerns about unification rather than try to persuade them, I don't reckon we have much hope.

facehugger99

Dytalus wrote: »

2017 Service Imports from UK: €16.5 billion
2017 Service Exports to UK: €26.3 billion
2017 Goods Imports from UK:€1.6 billion
2017 Goods Exports to UK:€1.4 billion
Total Trade (Exports/Imports) for 2017: €45.8 billion

Difference: €64 billion - €45.8 billion = €18.2 billion (Roughly a 40% inflation).

[Source]


Intelligent they may be (nice humble brag. The subtle dig is not so nice. Can we leave families out of any 'subtle' sniping?), but they do seem misinformed. At the very least, you are misinformed.

I've not seen Francie actually cheer on a hard brexit anywhere. While I'd consider myself in favour of a UI I definitely don't want a hard Brexit for anyone's sake. Granted, their aspirations for a UI are considerable more energetic than mine, and I gloss over large swathes of the back-and-forward chaos in this thread. I'm sure if they've actually said "bring on no-deal" or words to that effect you're able to provide me with a quote?

There are other sources which claim closer to €60bn of trade

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8173

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-uk-trade-more-significant-than-brexit-border-question-1.3551374

Regarding your comments on families being introduced to the thread perhaps you'd be better to direct them at the poster who actually did introduce the issue.

facehugger99

eagle eye wrote: »

Please don't use my post to have a dig at somebody else.

I'll use your post however I best see fit - don't post here if you're so precious about it.

eagle eye

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

facehugger99 wrote:

I'll use your post however I best see fit - don't post here if you're so precious about it.

Ok I won't post again.
Not giving somebody who hasn't the intelligence to make up his own post and insults anymore help.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

eagle eye wrote: »

facehugger99 wrote:

I'll use your post however I best see fit - don't post here if you're so precious about it.

Ok I won't post again.
Not giving somebody who hasn't the intelligence to make up his own post and insults anymore help.

Eagle Eye, just use the block feature on him. Despite disagreeing on many things, I've enjoyed your contributions considerably more than that one's blatant low grade trolling.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

In fairness, Francie, if it boiled down to an outright choice between unity or the physical safety of my family, you could paint me partitionist in a blink. I'd be straight into, 'I'm alright Jack' mode.

The safety and security of my family is my number one priority, always will be.

I personally don't believe that unification would pose that risk (for a variety of reasons), but let's be totally frank here, if your planned strategy is to insult everyone who expresses concerns about unification rather than try to persuade them, I don't reckon we have much hope.

Everybody protects family first.

Burying your head in the sand and pretending that the issue isn't there for other families is not the way to do it, though.

I presume FH and Eagle Eye live far enough away that they think by ignoring it they can pretend it isn't happening, like so many did during the most recent conflict/war. That is an 'I'm alright Jack' mentality every day of the week as far as i am concerned.
We would still be living in huts if everybody thought like that.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Everybody protects family first.

Burying your head in the sand and pretending that the issue isn't there for other families is not the way to do it, though.

I presume FH and Eagle Eye live far enough away that they think by ignoring it they can pretend it isn't happening, like so many did during the most recent conflict/war. That is an 'I'm alright Jack' mentality every day of the week as far as i am concerned.
We would still be living in huts if everybody thought like that.

More Bird's Eye Potato Waffle from the Captain.

You haven't managed to sting together a coherent point for a few days now - maybe you need a break?

cameramonkey

20-30 years

Do Irish purchases from Amazor or similar sites get recorded on the Import figures?

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

More Bird's Eye Potato Waffle from the Captain.

You haven't managed to sting together a coherent point for a few days now - maybe you need a break?

You have made the ridiculous claim

The NI border issue is a complete irrelevance to the ROI in the context of Brexit.

and have gotten rightfully panned for it. You seem to be lashing out at everyone whom you disagree with and reverted to insult.

joseywhales

10-15 years

Maybe this is a bit late and simplistic, instead of having a border poll, why not have a vote in NI on whether they want a NI only backstop? I have heard the PM describe the backstop as "non-democratic", well then have a NI vote on the backstop and we can find out?

FrancieBrady

joseywhales wrote: »

Maybe this is a bit late and simplistic, instead of having a border poll, why not have a vote in NI on whether they want a NI only backstop? I have heard the PM describe the backstop as "non-democratic", well then have a NI vote on the backstop and we can find out?

We have moved past that now..Boris and the ERG want the backstop gone in it's entirety.

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Everybody protects family first.

Burying your head in the sand and pretending that the issue isn't there for other families is not the way to do it, though.

I presume FH and Eagle Eye live far enough away that they think by ignoring it they can pretend it isn't happening, like so many did during the most recent conflict/war. That is an 'I'm alright Jack' mentality every day of the week as far as i am concerned.
We would still be living in huts if everybody thought like that.

The conflict affected everyone in Ireland,NI and mainland Britain in some way,not just those living in border areas.
The idea of a UI is ok but there are obviously many people in Ireland who are unconvinced it will work with all the potential pitfalls(civil unrest etc).
I have border county in laws ,they have strong republican views but don`t think a UI is a good idea at the present time as it could tear Ireland apart unless it was a landslide result .

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

The conflict affected everyone in Ireland,NI and mainland Britain in some way,not just those living in border areas.
The idea of a UI is ok but there are obviously many people in Ireland who are unconvinced it will work with all the potential pitfalls(civil unrest etc).
I have border county in laws ,they have strong republican views but don`t think a UI is a good idea at the present time as it could tear Ireland apart unless it was a landslide result .

I have said it would be wrong at present too. But they conversation needs to happen.

Burying your head in the sand hoping it won't affect you, is not an option for responsible citizens. And I am not getting where the 'obviously' is coming from.
Even though an outdated poll says 37% won't pay tax for it that doesn't mean 37% think it wouldn't work.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Everybody protects family first.

Burying your head in the sand and pretending that the issue isn't there for other families is not the way to do it, though.

I presume FH and Eagle Eye live far enough away that they think by ignoring it they can pretend it isn't happening, like so many did during the most recent conflict/war. That is an 'I'm alright Jack' mentality every day of the week as far as i am concerned.
We would still be living in huts if everybody thought like that.

The conflict affected everyone in Ireland,NI and mainland Britain in some way,not just those living in border areas.
The idea of a UI is ok but there are obviously many people in Ireland who are unconvinced it will work with all the potential pitfalls(civil unrest etc).
I have border county in laws ,they have strong republican views but don`t think a UI is a good idea at the present time as it could tear Ireland apart unless it was a landslide result .

If they don't think a UI is a good idea, they aren't Republicans. This isn't a criticism of them, they're absolutely entitled to not favour unification.....but by definition, they aren't Republican, in the Irish sense.

To be fair though, I don't think your, 'border county inlaws' exist, any more than you're just an unbiased English bloke trying to get a little bit of information.

blanch152

Fionn1952 wrote: »

If they don't think a UI is a good idea, they aren't Republicans. This isn't a criticism of them, they're absolutely entitled to not favour unification.....but by definition, they aren't Republican, in the Irish sense.

To be fair though, I don't think your, 'border county inlaws' exist, any more than you're just an unbiased English bloke trying to get a little bit of information.

Republican in an Irish sense is not republican.

You can be a republican and not favour Irish unity.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

joseywhales wrote: »

why not have a vote in NI on whether they want a NI only backstop?

Scotland. Scotland will seek the exact same and Whitehall values Scotland too much to allow it to get notions of independence from ENG/LDN.

Fionn1952

15-20 years

blanch152 wrote: »

Fionn1952 wrote: »

If they don't think a UI is a good idea, they aren't Republicans. This isn't a criticism of them, they're absolutely entitled to not favour unification.....but by definition, they aren't Republican, in the Irish sense.

To be fair though, I don't think your, 'border county inlaws' exist, any more than you're just an unbiased English bloke trying to get a little bit of information.

Republican in an Irish sense is not republican.

You can be a republican and not favour Irish unity.

100% true, Blanch- of course one can be a Republican and not be an Irish Republican. The context of the statement would make it pretty obvious that in this context it was referring to Irish Republicanism though.

20-30 years

Some of the most powerful politicians in the US have now come out to warn Britain that if it breaks its GFA commitments by imposing a hard border in Ireland then it will not get the trade agreement it seeks. Following Nancy Pelosi last week, Richard Neal, the Chairman of the powerful
Ways and Means Committee, which is the main tax committee in the US Congress and thus central to any trade agreement, was clear:

The head of the US congressional committee responsible for trade policy has warned Britain that a trade deal with the United States will not happen if the Belfast Agreement is jeopardised.

Representative Richard Neal said that Congress, and not the US president, writes trade agreements.

Speaking to the Irish Times ahead of Mr Johnson’s visit to Belfast, Representative Richard Neal said that the new British prime minister needed to recognise that this was not about a “return to empire.”

“He needs to be reminded that this is not about a return to empire,” he said of Mr Johnson “You’d be hard pressed to find everybody else who has been saying the things he has been saying as related to the backstop provision.”...

‘This is not about a return to empire’ – US Congressman warns Johnson on Belfast Agreement:
Richard Neal says a US-UK trade deal will not happen if 1998 accord is jeopardised

blinding

10-15 years

Leo would rather do Photo Shoots that have a plan for Irish Re-Unification

facehugger99

blinding wrote: »

Leo would rather do Photo Shoots that have a plan for Irish Re-Unification

The government aren't serious about unification but it costs them nothing to pay lip-service to the pan-nationalists.

In any serious unification discussion, the electorate would require a unification budget to be produced, clearly setting out all the attended costs and how they would be funded.

Pensions, will be cut by €X, SW payments reduced to €Y, taxes increased to Z% along will all the reductions in health, education and infrastructure spending that is needed to fund the €10 -12bn per annum required for NI.

The fact that nothing of the sort has even been discussed, much less prepared, tells you everything you need to know about the likelihood of unification.


In the meantime Leo will posture and preen because it doesn't cost a penny.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

The government aren't serious about unification but it costs them nothing to pay lip-service to the pan-nationalists.

In any serious unification discussion, the electorate would require a unification budget to be produced, clearly setting out all the attended costs and how they would be funded.

Pensions, will be cut by €X, SW payments reduced to €Y, taxes increased to Z% along will all the reductions in health, education and infrastructure spending that is needed to fund the €10 -12bn per annum required for NI.

The fact that nothing of the sort has even been discussed, much less prepared, tells you everything you need to know about the likelihood of unification.


In the meantime Leo will posture and preen because it doesn't cost a penny.

:D:D I'm not sure you realise (actually, I am sure) what you just done there. Feck me...the disconnect even from what you are saying yourself is begining to reach parody levels.
In case you don't understand:

You say:

The fact that nothing of the sort has even been discussed, much less prepared, tells you everything you need to know about the likelihood of unification.

...immediately after breathlessly spelling out what it would mean.


Well done again! :D:D

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D:D I'm not sure you realise (actually, I am sure) what you just done there. Feck me...the disconnect even from what you are saying yourself is begining to reach parody levels.
In case you don't understand:

You say:


...immediately after breathlessly spelling out what it would mean.


Well done again! :D:D

It's pretty obvious, at least to most, I'm referring to official Dept. of Finance budgetary figures Francie. You may have noticed I didn't put figures in against the tax increases and SW/pension reduction - perhaps a re-read would be in order?

I suppose it's some small progress that you agree with my broad analysis on the reduction in our current and capital expenditure required to fill the funding gap for unification - I can't imagine this will be particularly palatable to the vast majority of the electorate if it ever did get to being published.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's pretty obvious, at least to most, I'm referring to official Dept. of Finance budgetary figures Francie. You may have noticed I didn't put figures in against the tax increases and SW/pension reduction - perhaps a re-read would be in order?

I suppose it's some small progress that you agree with my broad analysis on the reduction in our current and capital expenditure required to fill the funding gap for unification - I can't imagine this will be particularly palatable to the vast majority of the electorate if it ever did get to being published.

:D You do know the DoF has an 'income' column too?

Stop with the it will be all cost and no benefit. Please. The reality is none of us know at this stage.

And again, in many people's minds the 'economic' cost is not everything if there are other benefits.
We pay for many things that we don't personally benefit from in this state. Not everyone is selfish in other words.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:
And again, in many people's minds the 'economic' cost is not everything if there are other benefits.

I think most people will place a value on their pay, pensions, children's education, parent's health care, the roads they drive on, the parks they play in, the libraries they read in and the many, many other aspects of our society that would be negatively impacted by the economic black hole of NI.

These would be the selfish people in Francie's hilariously childish view of the world . Fortunately they far out number those who carry your outdated fundamentalist views around with them.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The reality is none of us know at this stage.

Tells you all you need to know about its likelihood thankfully

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

I think most people will place a value on their pay, pensions, children's education, parent's health care, the roads they drive on, the parks they play in, the libraries they read in and the many, many other aspects of our society that would be negatively impacted by the economic black hole of NI.

These would be the selfish people in Francie's hilariously childish view of the world . Fortunately they far out number those who carry your outdated fundamentalist views around with them.



Tells you all you need to know about its likelihood thankfully

What...all those things are going to disappear? Dial back the scaremongering.

There will be an adjustment to be made in order that we can make an investment.

That is how rational, contributing members of society look at things. As I said, my taxes have paid for many many things I don't personally benefit from...that is part of my social contract.

Not everything is about economics, there is quality of life and the quality of life of those around you too.

You are part of the Can Pay, Won't Pay set, useless to society but the first to whinge...always.