How long before Irish reunification?

FrancieBrady

Quite a sad day today in northern Ireland in many ways, and maybe should be pause for thought for those who think the path they are on is the right one. Not looking at you Arlene!

Today Harland and Wolff, once (when partition was at it most supported) 30,000 workers strong, ceases trading with just over 120 workers.

blinding

10-15 years

The Orange State is being Squashed and thats good news .

facehugger99

Nordieland becomes ever more unattractive for the ROI taxpayer to subsidise.

mariaalice

It a different country whether people like it or not, it's not Irish nor is it British. I drive through lots of rural Tyrone and Armagh at the weekend get outside the city's and towns and you see the real place. Mad stuff such as bible versers on the side of farm building random union jack flags on poles in a field.

It just feels and looks different from both Ireland and the UK.

FrancieBrady

mariaalice wrote: »

It a different country whether people like it or not, it's not Irish nor is it British. I drive through lots of rural Tyrone and Armagh at the weekend get outside the city's and towns and you see the real place. Mad stuff such as bible versers on the side of farm building random union jack flags on poles in a field.

It just feels and looks different from both Ireland and the UK.

Sorry, have to completely reject this.
Grotto's on the side of the roads here, Knock? etc.

People wise, we are exactly the same. There is as much variation as there is across Munster and Leinster.

mariaalice

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sorry, have to completely reject this.
Grotto's on the side of the roads here, Knock? etc.

People wise, we are exactly the same. There is as much variation as there is across Munster and Leinster.

The people might be the same, but the cultuer, general feel and looks of the palce is different, the shops and building societies and the look of the highstreets are brittish let alone the differents in the mudand but importatn stuff such as education and the NHS.

20-30 years

The worst thing about the 'Ignore' function is that when people keep responding to "it" one must see the posts in their replies. Why are you all engaging with it? Remember the saying about debating with an idiot: they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. That's precisely what's happening here. You are all coming across as less intelligent each time you respond.

mariaalice

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sorry, have to completely reject this.
Grotto's on the side of the roads here, Knock? etc.

People wise, we are exactly the same. There is as much variation as there is across Munster and Leinster.

The people might be the same, but the cultuer, general feel and looks of the palce is different, the shops and building societies and the look of the highstreets are British, let alone the differents in the mudand but importatn stuff such as education and the NHS.

Parts look very irish Aughnacloy, for example, looks irish but there are villages and towns that wouldn't look out of place in Surrey as well.

mariaalice

The reunification thing for nationalists in the north kinda reminds me of Brexit and the little Englanders in a way.

For some nationalists, they don't care if reunification make them poorer or the economy of NI worse( it might not but who knows ) It a visceral cultural thing for nationalists.

FrancieBrady

mariaalice wrote: »

The people might be the same, but the cultuer, general feel and looks of the palce is different, the shops and building societies and the look of the highstreets are British, let alone the differents in the mudand but importatn stuff such as education and the NHS.

Parts look very irish Aughnacloy, for example, looks irish but there are villages and towns that wouldn't look out of place in Surrey as well.

Not sure what is particularly wrong with visual diversity. does it frighten you, scare you, repulse you?
Personally, I love the feeling of towns like Enniskillen and Armagh.

I get what you are saying about the differences in the education and health system.

mariaalice

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not sure what is particularly wrong with visual diversity. does it frighten you, scare you, repulse you?
Personally, I love the feeling of towns like Enniskillen and Armagh.

I get what you are saying about the differences in the education and health system.

I acutely like NI but dont get a chance to vist much now as my husband dose not like it. Divirsity is great but that was not my point. My centera point is that NI is its own country neithter Brittish or Irish.

RobMc59

10-15 years

blinding wrote: »

The Orange State is being Squashed and thats good news .

Lol-good luck with that..

FrancieBrady

mariaalice wrote: »

I acutely like NI but dont get a chance to vist much now as my husband dose not like it. Divirsity is great but that was not my point. My centera point is that NI is its own country neithter Brittish or Irish.

Apart from the fact that it cannot function 'on it's own' and it cannot function as a part of the union it has been in for a century.

mariaalice

20-30 years

mariaalice wrote: »

The reunification thing for nationalists in the north kinda reminds me of Brexit and the little Englanders in a way.

For some nationalists, they don't care if reunification make them poorer or the economy of NI worse( it might not but who knows ) It a visceral cultural thing for nationalists.

And for other nationalists it's an economic thing: as long as the British state is in Ireland retail and other businesses in this higher cost/wage economy will be undermined by its existence. Politically, too, its existence directly impacts the ability of the state to implement taxes - e.g. VAT rates on alcohol are in large part shaped by the rates in the North.

RobMc59

10-15 years

mariaalice wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not sure what is particularly wrong with visual diversity. does it frighten you, scare you, repulse you?
Personally, I love the feeling of towns like Enniskillen and Armagh.

I get what you are saying about the differences in the education and health system.

I acutely like NI but dont get a chance to vist much now as my husband dose not like it. Divirsity is great but that was not my point. My centera point is that NI is its own country neithter Brittish or Irish.

I have a similar dilemma in that I like NI but my wife isn't keen.Its a beautiful place and the culture is unique,it would be a shame to loose this.

RobMc59

10-15 years

Deleted User wrote: »

mariaalice wrote: »

The reunification thing for nationalists in the north kinda reminds me of Brexit and the little Englanders in a way.

For some nationalists, they don't care if reunification make them poorer or the economy of NI worse( it might not but who knows ) It a visceral cultural thing for nationalists.

And for other nationalists it's an economic thing: as long as the British state is in Ireland retail and other businesses in this higher cost/wage economy will be undermined by its existence. Politically, too, its existence directly impacts the ability of the state to implement taxes - e.g. VAT rates on alcohol are in large part shaped by the rates in the North.

Perhaps if the UK and Ireland could put their heads together and come up with a plan to stimulate economic growth in NI ?Surely that would be in everyone's interests.

cj maxx

RobMc59 wrote: »

I have a similar dilemma in that I like NI but my wife isn't keen.Its a beautiful place and the culture is unique,it would be a shame to loose this.

Liking NI is exactly the same as liking connemara , kerry ,Donegal or where ever.
The towns around the very north east do have different layouts and an british feel but alot of rural villages further west are much the same apart from having spars instead of londis etc.
Minor differences.
Most of the differences are natural like the glens, the causeway and loughs neagh and erne .
To me the beauty isn't NI but the north of the island of Ireland.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Perhaps if the UK and Ireland could put their heads together and come up with a plan to stimulate economic growth in NI ?Surely that would be in everyone's interests.

We have. The economic interest is best served on a whole island basis.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

People wise, we are exactly the same. There is as much variation as there is across Munster and Leinster.

If we are exactly the same, then why do so many people identify as British and why was a near civil war perpetrated for 30 years on the issue of identity?

Ulster is very different to Muster, Leinster or Connaught.

You may as well say the Irish and English are exactly the same and that Sommerset is the same as Munster.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

If we are exactly the same, then why do so many people identify as British and why was a near civil war perpetrated for 30 years on the issue of identity?

Ulster is very different to Muster, Leinster or Connaught.

You may as well say the Irish and English are exactly the same and that Sommerset is the same as Munster.

The people of Monaghan identify as Monaghan people, the people of Cavan as Cavan people. But essentially they are the same people.

Those who 'identify' as British are still Irish people.

And the conflict wasn't about 'identity', it was about the suprematist, bigoted rule of one identity over another, and the outside state that supported that rule.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We have. The economic interest is best served on a whole island basis.

The usual Francienomic meaningless guff.

The economic interest of ROI taxpayers is to continue to allow the UK to pick up the €10-12bn a year subvention. That's what we'll be doing.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

The usual Francienomic meaningless guff.

The economic interest of ROI taxpayers is to continue to allow the UK to pick up the €10-12bn a year subvention. That's what we'll be doing.

Facehugger again deluding himself that 37% will get to decide.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Those who 'identify' as British are still Irish people.

You talk of supremacist yet here you are labeling other people in a supremacist way. These people self identify as British, not Irish, so to label them anything else is supremacist.

Your willful ignorance is astounding, and a reminder to people on the dangers of nationalism.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

You talk of supremacist yet here you are labeling other people in a supremacist way. These people self identify as British, not Irish, so to label them anything else is supremacist.

Your willful ignorance is astounding, and a reminder to people on the dangers of nationalism.

They are Irish people who identify as British. That is nothing other than the truth.

Ian Paisley thought the same way, exactly.

Ian Paisley wrote:

“Edward Carson was a life-long Irishman, as well as being a life-long unionist, and that made all the difference… On this 28th day of September, 100 years after his pen touched parchment, we salute the man who taught us all how to be true Irishmen and women.”

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are Irish people who identify as British. That is nothing other than the truth.

It is not for you to decide what labels do and don't apply to people - the ignorance and arrogance to think you have that right is astounding.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ian Paisley thought the same way, exactly.

So what?

Who give a sh;t what he thinks?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are Irish people who identify as British. That is nothing other than the truth.

Ian Paisley thought the same way, exactly.

If it were oh so simple. Carson and Paisley were Ulstermen and Unionists. That is a very different thing to an Irish Nationalist. Are you saying that these two things are exactly the same?

markodaly

facehugger99 wrote: »

It is not for you to decide what labels do and don't apply to people - the ignorance and arrogance to think you have that right is astounding.

This is right-wing Nationalism at its finest, to be honest. Denying people their right to self-identity.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

If it were oh so simple. Carson and Paisley were Ulstermen and Unionists. That is a very different thing to an Irish Nationalist. Are you saying that these two things are exactly the same?

No.
But people identify in many different ways and can still be seen as basically the same.
Gay, Hetro, Lesbian, British, Irish, Cavan, Monaghan, left wing, right wing, Unionist, Nationalist, Fine Gael, Labour, male, female, tranvestitite, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Islamic etc etc etc etc.

There is nothing stopping them all living in a country together and being called Irish or the 'same people'.
Because all of the above live in southern Ireland, as it is.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

It is not for you to decide what labels do and don't apply to people - the ignorance and arrogance to think you have that right is astounding.

Says the guy labelling people 'Nordies'. Get a grip!

So what?

Who give a sh;t what he thinks?

Really, is that the best you can do here?

facehugger99

markodaly wrote: »

This is right-wing Nationalism at its finest, to be honest. Denying people their right to self-identity.

Francie will try to present the face of 'reasonable-nationalist' to the world but there are a number of times, even just on this thread, when the mask slips and some very disturbing language is used.

He has previous for suggesting the repatriation of Protestants from NI, the labeling those who disagree with his nationalist agenda as "useless to society" and now attempting to deny unionists the right to identify as British.

It's a worrying but very consistent trend.

As I have previously said - the irony is that those who most vehemently push a unification agenda, are also those least well equipped to compromise on thier fanatical, pan-nationalist beliefs