How long before Irish reunification?

downcow · 08-08-2019 5:09pm

Dytalus wrote: »

This thought process isn't exactly conducive to uniting the two communities, though? Whether you approve of the current situation or not, Northern Ireland is a distinct nation from Ireland itself. And if, in the future, NI joins Ireland (as a good many would like) then this blasé disregard for their self-identity is going to fuel those hardcore unionists who are afraid the Republic will treat them like the UK treated republicans and catholics post-partition.

How do you think that'll pan out for the New Ireland? How did it pan out for the UK?

While arguably you could call everyone from there "Irish" in that they are from the island of Ireland, that doesn't erase their nationality of being 'Northern Irish' (as in - of Northern Ireland). You also have the issue that 'Irish' simultaneously means 'of the nation of Ireland', alongside 'of the island of Ireland' (in the same way 'British' is used to mean 'of the island of Britain' and as shorthand for 'of the United Kingdom' - language is funny, complex, and ever malleable). Some folks in NI very much do not want to be seen as the former, and so don't want to be called 'Irish'. Even if technically it is correct to do so because of the latter.

Is it so hard to just...not say it?

Good post, but try calling a Canadian American because they live on the land mass that is America and see what happens - or even tell People from Basque that they are Spanish because they live in Spain

downcow · 08-08-2019 5:13pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The last poll that asked the question...'Could you live in a UI?' 18% of Unionists said they couldn't.
Which means that 82% will live in a UI. They might vote against it, but if a UI gets a majority, they are clearly indicating they would accept it.

Which is, as I have always said on here, how I find most Unionists, democratic and pragmatic.

On that reasoning then all nationalists living in NI accept partition

Junkyard Tom · 08-08-2019 5:18pm

30-40 years

Dytalus wrote: »

Whether you approve of the current situation or not, Northern Ireland is a distinct nation from Ireland itself.

It isn't a nation at all so its 'distinctness' from Ireland doesn't follow.

their nationality of being 'Northern Irish'

There is no 'Northern Irish' nationality in any official sense. I don't think it's even mentioned in the GFA.

That being said I support people's right to identify as they wish.

downcow · 08-08-2019 5:19pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Marko, It's all Ireland. What ever the current politics, Ulster is in Ireland. It's an Irish province partially in two jurisdictions, but both are in Ireland.

What absolute nonsense. You are saying no people have the right to self determination if the share a land mass. I don't even need to go into examples as this is such a ridiculous statement

downcow · 08-08-2019 5:21pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I came up with: if you are born on an island called Ireland you are Irish?

I think we are done here.

So if you are born in Spain are you called spanish and in Canada you are called american . such blind nonsense

downcow · 08-08-2019 5:22pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It isn't a nation at all so its 'distinctness' from Ireland doesn't follow.

There is no 'Northern Irish' nationality in any official sense. I don't think it's even mentioned in the GFA.

That being said I support people's right to identify as they wish.

Do you apply the same rules to Sottish?

FrancieBrady · 08-08-2019 5:24pm

downcow wrote: »

So if you are born in Spain are you called spanish and in Canada you are called american . such blind nonsense

Wot now?

RobMc59 · 08-08-2019 5:26pm

10-15 years

We're all from the British Isles.

jh79 · 08-08-2019 5:29pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It isn't a nation at all so its 'distinctness' from Ireland doesn't follow.

There is no 'Northern Irish' nationality in any official sense. I don't think it's even mentioned in the GFA.

That being said I support people's right to identify as they wish.

Since we removed our claim to NI for the GFA i would assume those from the North are British but they can avail of Irish citizenship.

FrancieBrady · 08-08-2019 5:31pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

We're all from the British Isles.

Yes we are Rob.
But you can refine that down even more specifically. If you are born in England you are English, Wales -Welsh, Scotland - Scottish and Ireland - Irish.

I understand the need to be sensitive to Unionism but there is no getting away from that.

And I wouldn't call somebody Irish to goad or offend them.

James Brown · 08-08-2019 5:52pm

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

I know you probably can't bring it across your lips, but I live in Northern Ireland. Every bit as much a country as the other 3 nations that make up the UK of NI & GB. My passport has Northern Ireland wrote on it. I would be interested to see the passport with eastern Ireland wrote on it.

To move forward, a good starting point would be for you to recognise NI

It's not even a complete province. Hardly a country.

James Brown · 08-08-2019 5:54pm

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

What absolute nonsense. You are saying no people have the right to self determination if the share a land mass. I don't even need to go into examples as this is such a ridiculous statement

I'm saying you can call yourself what you like but the land is Ireland. For practical purposes people are named for where they are from. It's pretty common practice here on planet Earth. You could call yourself Martian mind, if you feel an affinity.

Junkyard Tom · 08-08-2019 5:56pm

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

Do you apply the same rules to Sottish?

Scotland is a nation. Scotland has a national anthem. Scotland has a flag. The Six Nations Rugby tournament is a useful guide.

jh79 wrote: »

Since we removed our claim to NI for the GFA

We didn't remove it we made it less explicit.

1. It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland

i would assume those from the North are British but they can avail of Irish citizenship.

There is currently a dispute in the courts about this as the GFA speaks to Irish and British identity (note: not 'northern Irish') yet the Irish aspect has, disgracefully, not been codified which is in contravention of parity of esteem.

James Brown · 08-08-2019 5:56pm

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

We're all from the British Isles.

We are. Good man yourself.

Junkyard Tom · 08-08-2019 6:06pm

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

Northern Ireland. Every bit as much a country as the other 3 nations that make up the UK of NI & GB.

Not even the British refer to it as a country - it's described as a province. Unlike Scotland and Wales, NI has never been an independent country with a distinct NI people/culture.

downcow · 08-08-2019 6:19pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes we are Rob.
But you can refine that down even more specifically. If you are born in England you are English, Wales -Welsh, Scotland - Scottish and Ireland - Irish.

I understand the need to be sensitive to Unionism but there is no getting away from that.

And I wouldn't call somebody Irish to goad or offend them.

So explain to me why if you are born in Scotland you are Scottish but if you are born in NI you are not northern Irish?

droidman123 · 08-08-2019 6:21pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

We're all from the British Isles.

I was born and bred in dublin,never lived in the british isles in my life

FrancieBrady · 08-08-2019 6:23pm

downcow wrote: »

So explain to me why if you are born in Scotland you are Scottish but if you are born in NI you are not northern Irish?

Explain to me why I am only seeing one island in 'Northern Irish' and you'll understand maybe?

I accept you identify as British downcow but that was a choice you made when you were able to. You cannot change where you were born though.

downcow · 08-08-2019 6:24pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'm saying you can call yourself what you like but the land is Ireland. For practical purposes people are named for where they are from. It's pretty common practice here on planet Earth. You could call yourself Martian mind, if you feel an affinity.

So what exactly does that make Scots

downcow · 08-08-2019 6:33pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Scotland is a nation. Scotland has a national anthem. Scotland has a flag. The Six Nations Rugby tournament is a useful guide.
m.

You just make it up as you go along. The rules according to junkyard.
I prefer following what the UN say. And Scotland is NOT a nation.
They have a little picture of what the recognise as Ireland and thankfully my house isn’t in it lol So I mustn’t be Irish according to the un ðŸ˜‚

storker · 08-08-2019 6:35pm

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

downcow wrote: »

So explain to me why if you are born in Scotland you are Scottish but if you are born in NI you are not northern Irish?

Scotland having been in the past a separate kingdom, with its own nobility, is probably one reason for it.

jh79 · 08-08-2019 6:39pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Explain to me why I am only seeing one island in 'Northern Irish' and you'll understand maybe?

I accept you identify as British downcow but that was a choice you made when you were able to. You cannot change where you were born though.

Based on wiki , Francie, i think you have it backwards. NI is part of the UK therefore they are British. They can then chose to identify as Irish though and obtain citizenship.

How can you be Irish if born outside of the 26 counties?

James Brown · 08-08-2019 6:40pm

10-15 years

downcow wrote: »

So what exactly does that make Scots

Scottish I would expect. I'm from Dublin. Can be called a Dub, someone from Leinster, but it's not a country. I've friends who are of Italian decent, they can call themselves Italian, but they'd be recognised as Irish seeing they were born in Ireland. You getting it?

Junkyard Tom · 08-08-2019 6:40pm

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

So explain to me why if you are born in Scotland you are Scottish but if you are born in NI you are not northern Irish?

Northern Irish is not a nationality, has no official recognition, and is not a nation of people.

downcow · 08-08-2019 6:40pm

storker wrote: »

Scotland having been in the past a separate kingdom, with its own nobility, is probably one reason for it.

Folks this is a fairly pathetic circular argument. Check out what the UN says and it is very clear nobody born in NI is born in Ireland. You may not like that but it’s the law. Unlike the insecure nationalists on here who insist I am Irish, I actually affirm those who are born in this bit of the UK who desire to be Irish , and they should unquestionably be given that right.
Guys try to embrace diversity. It’s not really that scary

The Rape of Lucretia · 08-08-2019 6:42pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'm saying you can call yourself what you like but the land is Ireland. For practical purposes people are named for where they are from.

I think thats pretty clear all right. The same as Ireland being a British Isle, these people on that island are therefore British.

James Brown · 08-08-2019 6:42pm

10-15 years

jh79 wrote: »

Based on wiki , Francie, i think you have it backwards. NI is part of the UK therefore they are British. They can then chose to identify as Irish though and obtain citizenship.

How can you be Irish if born outside of the 26 counties?

The jurisdiction is British ruled. N.I. isn't like a country. It's a partially occupied Irish province on the island of Ireland.

If you are born in Ireland. You wouldn't be a citizen of the Republic, but you'd be Irish.

downcow · 08-08-2019 6:42pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Northern Irish is not a nationality, has no official recognition, and is not a nation of people.

UK is though. And it is made up of 4 fantastic countries of which I am lucky enough to belong to my favourite one of them. Onwards and upwards

cameramonkey · 08-08-2019 6:42pm

20-30 years

double

cameramonkey · 08-08-2019 6:43pm

20-30 years

jh79 wrote: »

How can you be Irish if born outside of the 26 counties?

Could be one of the dumbest posts I have seen.

How long before Irish reunification?

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