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How long before Irish reunification?

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    #2582
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    10-15 years
    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    I think thats pretty clear all right. The same as Ireland being a British Isle, these people on that island are therefore British.

    No. Did you go to school in Ireland? Canada is in the Americans, but Canada is a country. Anyone born there is a Canadian. Same goes for Mexicans. Seriously this is kindergarten stuff.


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    #2583
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Northern Irish is not a nationality, has no official recognition, and is not a nation of people.

    That's why they are British by default wether they like it or not. Ireland has no legal claim to the 6 counties only an aspiration.

    National Identity is subjective, nationality is the country you were born in.


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    #2584
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    ..... you could unite with us and it would be your passport into belonging to the UK and even the commonwealth as a wee bonus.
    Ask us nicely and I’m sure we’ll let you in


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    #2585
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    cameramonkey wrote: »
    Could be one of the dumbest posts I have seen.

    You're confusing nationality v national identity.


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    #2586
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    10-15 years
    jh79 wrote: »
    That's why they are British by default wether they like it or not. Ireland has no legal claim to the 6 counties only an aspiration.

    National Identity is subjective, nationality is the country you were born in.

    Exactly. N.I. is not a country. It's in the geographical explanation within the name.


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    #2587
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Exactly. N.I. is not a country. It's in the geographical explanation within the name.

    But legally speaking they are British. It's who they belong to and therefore gain rights from and have obligations to. (From wiki definition)

    Hence why SSM and abortion might be introduced up North.


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    #2588
    flanna01
    Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01


    20-30 years
    Looking at the bigger picture.. We are all but bugs living on a rock above sea level, we will all be dead in a hundred years, thankfully no more whinging on about what piece of rock you are affiliated to, or under what flag flutters above you, or what anthem gets your juices flowing...

    Nobody really cares... Like the previous generations before us, we are just renting space on earth, we won't be taking anything with us, and the next generation will pick up where we left off...

    Maybe in a thousand years, mankind will be seen as one, collectively known as Earthlings, with not a hoot given about what rock we cling to...


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    #2589
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    10-15 years
    jh79 wrote: »
    But legally speaking they are British. It's who they belong to and therefore gain rights from and have obligations to. (From wiki definition)

    Hence why SSM and abortion might be introduced up North.

    Yes they are. But they weren't born in the country of Britain. There is no such country. That's why we've English people who are British and so on.
    As regards laws etc., yes they are currently under a different jurisdiction.
    We are European, but also Irish as are our fellow Irish men currently under British rule.


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    #2590
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,221 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jh79 wrote:
    Based on wiki , Francie, i think you have it backwards. NI is part of the UK therefore they are British. They can then chose to identify as Irish though and obtain citizenship.

    How can you be Irish if born outside of the 26 counties?

    What island other than Ireland is being referenced in 'Northern Irish'?

    Take your time with this and think hard about it.


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    #2591
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    20-30 years
    jh79 wrote: »
    You're confusing nationality v national identity.


    If I was born outside the 26 say in NY or Timbuktu and both my parents hold Irish passports then I am Irish. No confusion.


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    #2592
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What island other than Ireland is being referenced in 'Northern Irish'?

    Take your time with this and think hard about it.

    I'm basing this on the definition from wiki not geography.

    "Nationality is the status that allows a nation to grant rights to the subject and to impose obligations upon the subject".

    By that definition they are British.

    Illegal immigrants born in the US are still nationals of their parents country but have an American identity is an example of how it works given in wiki.


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    #2593
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,221 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jh79 wrote: »
    I'm basing this on the definition from wiki not geography.

    "Nationality is the status that allows a nation to grant rights to the subject and to impose obligations upon the subject".

    By that definition they are British.

    Illegal immigrants born in the US are still nationals of their parents country but have an American identity is an example of how it works given in wiki.

    Never mind wiki and answer a simple question.

    What island other than Ireland is being referenced in 'Northern Irish'?


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    #2594
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Never mind wiki and answer a simple question.

    What island other than Ireland is being referenced in 'Northern Irish'?

    Francie, if you see nationality as purely geographic that's your perogative.

    But, the other poster was factually correct when they said British was their nationality.


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    #2595
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,221 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jh79 wrote: »
    Francie, if you see nationality as purely geographic that's your perogative.

    But, the other poster was factually correct when they said British was their nationality.

    They have chosen to be British which is their right and others have chosen to be Irish, as is their right. There is difference, 'choice' is the operative word.


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    #2596
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    10-15 years
    jh79 wrote: »
    Francie, if you see nationality as purely geographic that's your perogative.

    But, the other poster was factually correct when they said British was their nationality.

    They are British nationals from Ireland. N.I. is unique in that it is currently a partially occupied Irish province on the island of Ireland. If you were born in east Germany you'd be a soviet but also a German.


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    #2597
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    They have chosen to be British which is their right and others have chosen to be Irish, as is their right. There is difference, 'choice' is the operative word.

    And that's called National Identity which is subjective whereas nationality is the country / soverign state you were born into.


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    #2598
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,221 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    They are British nationals from Ireland. N.I. is unique in that it is a currently partially occupied Irish province on the island of Ireland. If you were born in east Germany you'd be a soviet but also a German.

    You'd almost think the GFA hadn't happened.

    Nobody can impose an identity on anyone in NI. They all have the right to choose one.
    The days of being 'British' automatically are over as long as the GFA is in force.


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    #2599
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,221 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jh79 wrote: »
    And that's called National Identity which is subjective whereas nationality is the country / soverign state you were born into.

    There is nothing 'subjective' about the island on which you are born. It is Ireland. The clue is in Northern IRISH.


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    #2600
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    They are British nationals from Ireland. N.I. is unique in that it is currently a partially occupied Irish province on the island of Ireland. If you were born in east Germany you'd be a soviet but also a German.

    Given how complex it is maybe having a go at another poster for being British in NI isn't appropriate.


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    #2601
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    There is nothing 'subjective' about the island on which you are born. It is Ireland. The clue is in Northern IRISH.

    There is if you want an automatic right to residence etc.

    If you're basing this entirely on geography then just say so but the other poster was correct in saying British.


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    #2602
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    10-15 years
    jh79 wrote: »
    Given how complex it is maybe having a go at another poster for being British in NI isn't appropriate.

    Having a go? Anyone born in Ireland is Irish. That's a fact not a slur. It's an insult to suggest it is.


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    #2603
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,221 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jh79 wrote: »
    There is if you want an automatic right to residence etc.

    If you're basing this entirely on geography then just say so but the other poster was correct in saying British.

    He/she is correct to say that they chose to identify as British. As somebody would also be equally correct to say they chose to identify as Irish. That is the unique position of NI expressed in the GFA.

    They are born on the island of Ireland and they cannot change that simple unerring fact even if people chose to not say it to them for fear of upsetting or goading them.


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    #2604
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    10-15 years
    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Not even the British refer to it as a country - it's described as a province. Unlike Scotland and Wales, NI has never been an independent country with a distinct NI people/culture.

    I disagree Tom,imo British people don`t see NI as an occupied part of Ireland,it`s seen as one of the four countries that make up the UK and even as an English person I know there are cultural differences between Ireland and NI.
    From a British point of view Ireland was part of Britain and it was Ireland that left the Union whilst the six counties remained.


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    #2605
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,221 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    I disagree Tom,imo British people don`t see NI as an occupied part of Ireland,it`s seen as one of the four countries that make up the UK and even as an English person I know there are cultural differences between Ireland and NI.
    From a British point of view Ireland was part of Britain and it was Ireland that left the Union whilst the six counties remained.

    Had the Germans successfully invaded you, would you be happy to be called Germans now?


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    #2606
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What island other than Ireland is being referenced in 'Northern Irish'?

    Take your time with this and think hard about it.

    Rathlin , Copelands, shall I go on?


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    #2607
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,221 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Rathlin , Copelands, shall I go on?

    I'll take that - deflection - as your usual way of admitting you cannot continue your illogical argument any longer.


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    #2608
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You'd almost think the GFA hadn't happened.

    Nobody can impose an identity on anyone in NI. They all have the right to choose one.
    The days of being 'British' automatically are over as long as the GFA is in force.

    As far as I am aware gfa had nothing to do with allowing you to be Irish. In fact if anything it made you less so as the county you aspire to no longer claims you as one of their own. You noe have to opt in


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    #2609
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,221 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    As far as I am aware gfa had nothing to do with allowing you to be Irish. In fact if anything it made you less so as the county you aspire to no longer claims you as one of their own. You noe have to opt in

    Didn't you read that one either downcow?

    (vi) recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to
    identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they
    may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both
    British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would
    not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.


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    #2610
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    10-15 years
    RobMc59 wrote: »
    I disagree Tom,imo British people don`t see NI as an occupied part of Ireland,it`s seen as one of the four countries that make up the UK and even as an English person I know there are cultural differences between Ireland and NI.
    From a British point of view Ireland was part of Britain and it was Ireland that left the Union whilst the six counties remained.

    I disagree. The average Brit is ignorant on Northern Ireland. Look at Johnston and Bradley. They've no clue about the place. When I lived in London I'd a grown woman ask me 'what's Northern Ireland?' She thought Belfast was next door to Dublin and we were lobbing bombs over at each other.

    Correction Ireland was invaded and 26 counties became free while six remain occupied. Slightly different, how ever many 'Hello' magazine covers the Saxe-Coburg-Gothe get on the cover of.


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    #2611
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,626 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Having a go? Anyone born in Ireland is Irish. That's a fact not a slur. It's an insult to suggest it is.

    Unfortunately for you your bigotry does not change how it is. I am British in every way. British parents and grandparents. Even though some were born in roi, it was even British then, I was born in the UK. I have a British passport. I love to see any team in the world beating your ROI team lol. QE2 is my monarch. I support British football teams, watch British tv. Speak English, if I was an athlete I would compete in the olympics for gb&ni. I use British pound, love the British flag, my roads are marked in miles and if I was joining an army it would be (surprise surprise) the British army. I could go on and on.

    I realise that it is a little embarrassing for you that you probably sign up to many of these pro British things and maybe even support a British team like Celtic or Man U.
    It might just be you that’s having the identity crisis. Surely not?


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