How long before Irish reunification?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nobody has a problem with expressed identity if they voted for the GFA.

It is ineffably sad that insecure partitionist is alligning itself with insecure belligerent unionism.
Sad and doomed.

I never thought I would say this but on the silly repudiation of where they are from they really need to take a lead out of Ian Paisley's and other confident unionists book

To be fair, Francie you are the one coming off as insecure by trying to redefine what nationality means. A person born in Derry or Belfast can choose to base their nationality on either their country of birth or place of birth.

James Brown

10-15 years

RobMc59 wrote: »

At the end of the day Matt,if people want to identify as British or Irish does it really matter?It could be said that anyone born in NI is in fact British but may choose to identify as Irish(Jame McClean is an example,born in NI,represented NI up to 21 then changed to Ireland).
It`s actually a privilege to have the choice of British or Irish imo.

It doesn't matter to me. We have many people in Ireland who would view themselves as various ethnic groups and nationalities.

James Brown

10-15 years

jh79 wrote: »

To be fair, Francie you are the one coming off as insecure by trying to redefine what nationality means. A person born in Derry or Belfast can choose to base their nationality on either their country of birth or place of birth.

This makes no sense. Isn't your country of birth also your place of birth? A country is a place. I can be born in Dublin and call myself Chinese but I'd be Irish by birth. I've Scottish Protestant ancestry who moved to Belfast, but I'm Irish. Could call myself British I suppose.

storker

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

jh79 wrote: »

To be fair, Francie you are the one coming off as insecure by trying to redefine what nationality means. A person born in Derry or Belfast can choose to base their nationality on either their country of birth or place of birth.

I've always looked at it pretty much like this. Anyone born in the six countries is a citizen of the UK because that's the jurisdiction in which they're born. Such a person may define themselves as British or Irish as they see fit, and someone identifying as Irish can also claim Irish citizenship should they so wish. I really can't see what everyone's undergarments seem to be getting in such a tangle about.

Insisting that everyone born there is Irish because of the name of the island seems to me to be no more helpful that Unionists insisting that Nationalists are British because the territory (currently) belongs to Britain. If there has to be labels then let people apply their own, rather than doing it for them.

The term "British Isles" is one I sometimes use myself, as do many physical maps. Whether the name refers to a geographic feature or implies ownership likes largely in the eye of the beholder and is don't think it's safe or fair to assume that use of the term is a deliberate provocation - unless there are other reasons to think so. I've no objection to using an alternative if it catches on. The Northwest Atlantic Archipelago sounds a bit awkward, so as an alternative I'd probably prefer the Pretanic Islands, since it's shorter and catchier and being ancient Greek it predates all the baggage.

RobMc59

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

By the way. I didn't have to leave the island to get to Enniskillen and unless I tell people my identity I am the same as everyone else if a tad better looking!

Your last statement makes me think you've been picking magic mushrooms again!

jh79

Matt Barrett wrote: »

This makes no sense. Isn't your country of birth also your place of birth? A country is a place. I can be born in Dublin and call myself Chinese but I'd be Irish by birth. I've Scottish Protestant ancestry who moved to Belfast, but I'm Irish. Could call myself British I suppose.

But the island of Ireland has 2 countries in it. So if born in the North nationality can be either Irish or British.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Then why do you insist on calling people in the North, Irish as well by default?
This is not in the GFA.

Because they were born on the island of Ireland. Simple. The same reason Ian Paisley and other unionists call themselves Irish.

You adopt an 'identity' you are not 'born' with an identity ready formed. You are 'born' in a 'place' and that place is and always will be Irish.

Put two of us side by side outside of Ireland, tell the other person where you are from and you have to tell people what your identity is. The other person sees us as Irish.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Your last statement makes me think you've been picking magic mushrooms again!

No, I identify as 'good looking' Rob, therefore I am. How dare you say different, how DARE you!

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because they were born on the island of Ireland. Simple.

Where does it say this in the GFA?

Perhaps you should take your own advice because you come across with someone with a split personality with your tap dancing.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The GFA recognises the right of people to 'identify' as Irish or British, rightfully so

Your continued persistent use of ascribing an identity on someone is that of a supremacist.

James Brown

10-15 years

markodaly wrote: »

Where does it say this in the GFA?

Perhaps you should take your own advice because you come across with someone with a split personality with your tap dancing.



Your continued persistent use of ascribing an identity on someone is that of a supremacist.

You go over to the U.S. and tell them you identify as an American. Better than any passport...

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Where does it say this in the GFA?

THE GFA ADDRESSES ISSUEs OF IDENTITY and the right to have that identity on 'the island of Ireland and among 'the people of Ireland', i.e. The IRISH.~It is not addressing issues of identity among Poles, Germans etc, it addresses issues of identity among the Irish people.
Where you were born is where you where born.

Nobody has a problem with how people identify. Except a single poster here 'Facehugger' whose anti GFA comment you STILL haven't addressed.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

THE GFA ADDRESSES ISSUEs OF IDENTITY and the right to have that identity on 'the island of Ireland and among 'the people of Ireland', i.e. The IRISH.

It does not say the latter at all Francie and you know it.

The GFA does not ascribe a default identity on the people. It does not say that the people in the North are all Irish for being born there.

Educate yourself again, as you come across as illiterate.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

It does not say the latter at all Francie and you know it.

The GFA does not ascribe a default identity on the people. It does not say that the people in the North are all Irish for being born there.

Educate yourself again, as you come across as illiterate.

Why would it do that?

Because it is about identity, not were you are from.

Where you are from and your 'identity' can be different, as we all know and enshrined into the GFA.
You can change one (your identity) but sadly (for some obviously) you cannot change the other.

Some unionists are so insecure about there own identity that as well as insulting any notion that they are Irish by birth, they have to visually remind you all the time as well, that they are British...kerbstones, bunting, and flags tattooed all over the north and object vociferously to any semblance of Irishness, the language on sewer lids, street signs, recognition of our independence etc etc etc.

blinding

10-15 years

Irish Re-Unification would be another great outworking of Brexit for Big Island Brits .

Brexit just gets better and better for them . Save £11 Billion per annum . Ca Ching .

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why would it do that?

It doesn't and for very good reason.

It stops bigots like yourself ascribing an identity onto people against their will.

People in the North can be Irish or British or both, if they choose to be.

You seem to think that someone who identifies as British is also Irish aswell, this thinking is against the GFA.

frosty123

Personally speaking I hope it never happens..turns my stomach to think of terrorists getting their hour of glory

storker

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

frosty123 wrote: »

Personally speaking I hope it never happens..turns my stomach to think of terrorists getting their hour of glory

The Good Friday Agreement was signed 21 years ago. It would be a bit of a stretch to claim that reunification was the result of any armed campaign.

cameramonkey

20-30 years

frosty123 wrote: »

Personally speaking I hope it never happens..turns my stomach to think of terrorists getting their hour of glory

UVF got their way in the 1920's against the majority of Irish people who wanted a UI. Is your stomach turned?

blanch152

markodaly wrote: »

It does not say the latter at all Francie and you know it.

The GFA does not ascribe a default identity on the people. It does not say that the people in the North are all Irish for being born there.

Educate yourself again, as you come across as illiterate.

It is notable that Francie is on a pure solo run on this one, with others dropping out of the debate, and his posts not even getting thanks.

There is nobody else on this island who says that everyone born on this island is automatically Irish whether they want it or not. It is a sectarian bigoted position that repudiates the GFA.

It is deeply unsettling when we see the mask slip as on this issue and on the relocation fund.

markodaly

blanch152 wrote: »

It is notable that Francie is on a pure solo run on this one, with others dropping out of the debate, and his posts not even getting thanks.

There is nobody else on this island who says that everyone born on this island is automatically Irish whether they want it or not. It is a sectarian bigoted position that repudiates the GFA.

It is deeply unsettling when we see the mask slip as on this issue and on the relocation fund.

Relocation grant for Unionists - check
Making light of the Kingsmill massacre - check
Adopting a nationalist supremacist view on identity - check
Wearing the Poppy should be against the law - check

Just to name a few little beauties from him.

Poor Francie talks so much he forgets that the internet has a long long memory. :pac:

James Brown

10-15 years

markodaly wrote: »

It doesn't and for very good reason.

It stops bigots like yourself ascribing an identity onto people against their will.

People in the North can be Irish or British or both, if they choose to be.

You seem to think that someone who identifies as British is also Irish aswell, this thinking is against the GFA.

You are arguing for nothing. If you are born in Ireland you are Irish. You can be Irish born British. Does anyone care what someone else wants to identify as? I couldn't care less personally. Anyone born on the island of Ireland is Irish they can still be British. If you are born in occupied Ulster you can't call yourself Scottish or Welsh or English, but you can call yourself British but you are also from Ireland.

munsterlegend

munsterlegend wrote: »

Yes the vast majority. Last olympics out of 29 in total from the north, 21 represented Ireland.
Maybe it’s like North Korea in your house and those events where they declare for Ireland are not allowed to be broadcasted!

Looks like downcow was so shocked by this stat he ran off.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You are arguing for nothing. If you are born in Ireland you are Irish. You can be Irish born British. Does anyone care what someone else wants to identify as? I couldn't care less personally. Anyone born on the island of Ireland is Irish they can still be British. If you are born in occupied Ulster you can't call yourself Scottish or Welsh or English, but you can call yourself British but you are also from Ireland.

Wrong again, how many times does this have to be spelled out?

If you are born in Ireland (the 26 counties), legally you are Irish.

If you are born in Northern Ireland (the 6 counties), legally you are British.

If you are born in Northern Ireland and you choose to be Irish, you are Irish.

Those are the facts, pure and simple.

All the rest about being born on the island automatically meaning you are Irish that is spouted by republicans on here is pure unadulterated nonsense.

James Brown

10-15 years

blanch152 wrote: »

Wrong again, how many times does this have to be spelled out?

If you are born in Ireland (the 26 counties), legally you are Irish.

If you are born in Northern Ireland (the 6 counties), legally you are British.

If you are born in Northern Ireland and you choose to be Irish, you are Irish.

Those are the facts, pure and simple.

All the rest about being born on the island automatically meaning you are Irish that is spouted by republicans on here is pure unadulterated nonsense.

Can you tell me in what country would a Belfast person be born?

cameramonkey

20-30 years

blanch152 wrote: »

Wrong again, how many times does this have to be spelled out?

If you are born in Ireland (the 26 counties), legally you are Irish.

If you are born in Northern Ireland (the 6 counties), legally you are British.

If you are born in Northern Ireland and you choose to be Irish, you are Irish.

Those are the facts, pure and simple.

All the rest about being born on the island automatically meaning you are Irish that is spouted by republicans on here is pure unadulterated nonsense.

Wrong, wrong and wrong. They are not the facts , they are completely wrong. .

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Can you tell me in what country would a Belfast person be born?

Northern Ireland, and by law they are British.

They can choose to identify as Irish, that is their entitlement under the GFA.

It is extraordinary that people like yourself and Francie claim that anyone born on the island is automatically Irish. If that were true, then the GFA and subsequent legislation to allow people an "entitlement", not automaticity, wouldn't have been needed to allow people in the North to be Irish.

Pure nonsense you guys are spouting.

https://www.ucd.ie/ibis/filestore/wp2006/68/68_boc.pdf

"in deriving both British and Irish citizenship from birth in Northern Ireland, the Agreement bases entitlement to citizenship on the principle of jus soli. The inherently territorial nature of this principle, and
its close connection with the assertion of sovereignty, would suggest an “overlapping” of state borders and, theoretically, implies a sharing of sovereignty. However,
as already highlighted, the Agreement specifies that citizenship, while a birthright, is
fundamentally a matter of individual choice."


"the Agreement specifies that citizenship, while a birthright, is fundamentally a matter of individual choice"



Once again, you are talking absolute nonsense, unless you accept that everyone born in Northern Ireland is automatically both British and Irish.

James Brown

10-15 years

blanch152 wrote: »

Northern Ireland, and by law they are British.

They can choose to identify as Irish, that is their entitlement under the GFA.

It is extraordinary that people like yourself and Francie claim that anyone born on the island is automatically Irish. If that were true, then the GFA and subsequent legislation to allow people an "entitlement", not automaticity, wouldn't have been needed to allow people in the North to be Irish.

Pure nonsense you guys are spouting.

https://www.ucd.ie/ibis/filestore/wp2006/68/68_boc.pdf

"in deriving both British and Irish citizenship from birth in Northern Ireland, the Agreement bases entitlement to citizenship on the principle of jus soli. The inherently territorial nature of this principle, and
its close connection with the assertion of sovereignty, would suggest an “overlapping” of state borders and, theoretically, implies a sharing of sovereignty. However,
as already highlighted, the Agreement specifies that citizenship, while a birthright, is
fundamentally a matter of individual choice."


"the Agreement specifies that citizenship, while a birthright, is fundamentally a matter of individual choice"



Once again, you are talking absolute nonsense, unless you accept that everyone born in Northern Ireland is automatically both British and Irish.

But Northern Ireland isn't a country. It's a British controlled portion of the province of Ulster.

They would be Irish due to being born in Ireland and British by choice due to the current political climate in that part of Ulster.

This today from Michael Gove, Boris's no deal Brexit man, in Co. Down no less:

"We will make sure that we safeguard the security of the people on the island of Ireland and we will also make sure that trade continues to flow as freely as possible."
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0809/1067933-brexit/

The people on the island of Ireland Blanch, not N.I., not Wales. You may contact him right away with your correction
To be fair he mightn't know there's any border at all, the thought they give the place.

blinding

10-15 years

Matt Barrett wrote: »

But Northern Ireland isn't a country. It's a British controlled portion of the province of Ulster.

This today from Michael Gove, Boris's no deal Brexit man, in Co. Down no less:



The people on the island of Ireland Blanch. You may contact him right away with your correction

When you are putting £11 billion on the Island , youse is entitled to get carried away a bit-een !

James Brown

10-15 years

blinding wrote: »

When you are putting £11 billion on the Island , youse is entitled to get carried away a bit-een !

Wait 'till Boris puts the 'savings' of a united Ireland on the side of a bus

jh79

Matt Barrett wrote: »

But Northern Ireland isn't a country. It's a British controlled portion of the province of Ulster.

They would be Irish due to being born in Ireland and British by choice due to the current political climate in that part of Ulster.

This today from Michael Gove, Boris's no deal Brexit man, in Co. Down no less:



The people on the island of Ireland Blanch, not N.I., not Wales. You may contact him right away with your correction
To be fair he mightn't know there's any border at all, the thought they give the place.

NI isn't a recognised country in its own right but is part of the UK . So if you are basing your nationality on the country you were born in then you are British.