How long before Irish reunification?

blinding

10-15 years

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Wait 'till Boris puts the 'savings' of a united Ireland on the side of a bus

How much is £11billion divide by 52 ?

Why do the Big Island brits keep coming up with this dosh :eek: for Northern Ireland :eek:

And some people think they are daft with Brexit:eek:

They really should give Leo the North if only for a laugh :eek::D:eek:

James Brown

10-15 years

jh79 wrote: »

NI isn't a recognised country in its own right but is part of the UK . So if you are basing your nationality on the country you were born in then you are British.

True and Irish. Same as a Welsh person.

jh79

Matt Barrett wrote: »

True and Irish. Same as a Welsh person.

Yes, but this all started cause Francie said that poster was incorrect to say they are British.

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

Yes, but this all started cause Francie said that poster was incorrect to say they are British.

Just to add they don't identify as British they are British . That is the nation they were born into.

Sorry just add in my opinion as they fit the definition.

Identify suggest to me something more wishy washy.

James Brown

10-15 years

jh79 wrote: »

Just to add they don't identify as British they are British . That is the nation they were born into.

Sorry just add in my opinion as they fit the definition.

Identify suggest to me something more wishy washy.

Well I've a few pals from Tyrone would disagree, as is their right.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

It doesn't and for very good reason.

It stops bigots like yourself ascribing an identity onto people against their will.

People in the North can be Irish or British or both, if they choose to be.

You seem to think that someone who identifies as British is also Irish aswell, this thinking is against the GFA.

You are so desperate here you are combining identity with the place you were born.

They are different things. You acquire an identity, you can never change the place of your birth.

Unless you are saying that somebody is born intrinsically Irish or British?

That would be even older idea than 'caste' 'upper and lower classes' 'royal blood' or the Divine Right of Kings/Queens'.

jh79 wrote: »

Yes, but this all started cause Francie said that poster was incorrect to say they are British.

No it didn't, this all started because Facehugger claimed that ALL the people there where 'Nordies' and that ALL of them were different to the people of the south.

About as Anti-GFA as you can get...but who gets attacked by the partitionists/insecure Unionists?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are so desperate here you are combining identity with the place you were born.

They are different things. You acquire an identity, you can never change the place of your birth.

Unless you are saying that somebody is born intrinsically Irish or British?

That would be even older idea than 'caste' 'upper and lower classes' 'royal blood' or the Divine Right of Kings/Queens'.




No it didn't, this all started because Facehugger claimed that ALL the people there where 'Nordies' and that ALL of them were different to the people of the south.

About as Anti-GFA as you can get...but who gets attacked by the partitionists/insecure Unionists?

Francie you are confusing ethnicity with nationality. Your ethnicity never changes but your nationality can.

James Brown

10-15 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

...

About as Anti-GFA as you can get...but who gets attacked by the partitionists/insecure Unionists?

Only jealous of your good looks Francie, don't mind them

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Francie you are confusing ethnicity with nationality. Your ethnicity never changes but your nationality can.

I am not confused. I was born on the island of Ireland and I am Irish.

storker

Ulster Says No. It will never happen

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Wait 'till Boris puts the 'savings' of a united Ireland on the side of a bus

That's as close as the great unwashed will over come to seeing any of it...

Fionn1952

15-20 years

blanch152 wrote: »

If you are born in Northern Ireland (the 6 counties), legally you are British.

How about you and Francie both stop telling people from the North what they are and respect their rights enshrined in the GFA?

I am absolutely not British, I carry an Irish passport, have Irish citizenship, I have the same voting rights as you do, as befits an Irish citizen.

I have an entitlement to British citizenship, should I choose to take it (which I do not), that citizenship is mine to choose, not yours to choose on my behalf.

Likewise, many friends of mine carry a British passport, have British citizenship etc etc. They have an entitlement to Irish citizenship, but it is up to them whether to take that citizenship or not.

This sh*t has been sorted for over twenty years, lads. Put your d*cks away, this measuring contest isn't impressing anyone.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am not confused. I was born on the island of Ireland and I am Irish.

So am i but a baby born in Belfast today was born in the UK and therefore a nationality of British is acceptable as that is the country they were born in.

Irish is acceptable too as that is the place they were born in.

I havn't come across any definition that gives more significance to geographical location over nation of birth or vice versa.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

How about you and Francie both stop telling people from the North what they are and respect their rights enshrined in the GFA?

I fully respect people's right to identity as they wish and to tell me what they are Fionn.
No issue with that at all.

When a poster declaims that 'they are ALL different up in Nordieland' I pointed out that they aren't. We are all Irish people with different identities. Mirroring the position of Ian Paisley and other people confident in their identities.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I fully respect people's right to identity as they wish and to tell me what they are Fionn.
No issue with that at all.

When a poster declaims that 'they are ALL different up in Nordieland' I pointed out that they aren't. We are all Irish people with different identities. Mirroring the position of Ian Paisley and other people confident in their identities.

But the issue is that you claimed they were not British. There isn't a different definition of nationality for NI. They are British and in the future in the event of a UI they remain British. Their kids would be Irish who would be eligible for British citizenship.

James Brown

10-15 years

jh79 wrote: »

So am i but a baby born in Belfast today was born in the UK and therefore a nationality of British is acceptable as that is the country they were born in.

Irish is acceptable too as that is the place they were born in.

I havn't come across any definition that gives more significance to geographical location over nation of birth or vice versa.

The U.K. isn't a country either.
You're changing the goal posts now. They are different things. Where you are born and the controlling entity of the land you are born on. Where you are born is a geographical absolute. If there were a united Ireland tomorrow you'd no longer be born in Britain or the U.K. but you'd still be Irish born. You'd only retain any Britishness depending on what ever rules were legislated, (you, your kid or grandchild etc.). The Welsh are born in Wales and Wales is part of Britain. They are still Welsh ffs...

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

But the issue is that you claimed they were not British.

I didn't. Northern Ireland isn't Britain to begin with, it's in the UK. They can chose whatever identity they want.

What I am saying that does not change the place of their birth. That is the island of Ireland and always will be.

There isn't a different definition of nationality for NI. They are British and in the future in the event of a UI they remain British. Their kids would be Irish who would be eligible for British citizenship.

The first planters were British and those that came after by your OWN definition were Irish. Your ill thought out logic just tripped you up jh79

FrancieBrady

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The U.K. isn't a country either.

Britain is an amalgam of 3 countries and it doesn't include NI.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't. Northern Ireland isn't Britain to begin with, it's in the UK. They can chose whatever identity they want.

What I am saying that does not change the place of their birth. That is the island of Ireland and always will be.




The first planters were British and those that came after by your OWN definition were Irish. Your ill thought out logic just tripped you up jh79

They would be Irish only because both their geography and nation of birth are the same. This isn't the case for NI therefore there is 2 possible answers. National Identity is related to ethnicity and culture.

The poster was correct saying British was their nationality based on the accepted definition and if they said Irish they were also correct.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Britain is an amalgam of 3 countries and it doesn't include NI.

NI exact title has never been officially declared, not recognised as country but is considered a province of the UK and therefire nationality is British according to world atlas.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

They would be Irish only because both their geography and nation of birth are the same. This isn't the case for NI therefore there is 2 possible answers. National Identity is related to ethnicity and culture.

But after the planters came it was Ireland, northern ireland was a separate entity. Stop digging on that one my friend.

The poster was correct saying British was their nationality based on the accepted definition and if they said Irish they were also correct.

Nationality is a construct, it depends on who has power. We had the British in power in the south for centuries and the people were STILL Irish.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

NI exact title has never been officially declared, not recognised as country but is considered a province of the UK and therefire nationality is British according to world atlas.

The official title is The United Kingdom of Great Britain AND Northern Ireland.

janfebmar

markodaly wrote: »

Relocation grant for Unionists - check
Making light of the Kingsmill massacre - check
Adopting a nationalist supremacist view on identity - check
Wearing the Poppy should be against the law - check

Just to name a few little beauties from him.

Poor Francie talks so much he forgets that the internet has a long long memory. :pac:

And as for the Orange Order in a United Ireland, care to refresh people's memories of your thoughts on that Francie? Do you even condemn the many attacks on OO properties to date Francie?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

But after the planters came it was Ireland, northern ireland was a separate entity. Stop digging on that one my friend.




Nationality is a construct, it depends on who has power. We had the British in power in the south for centuries and the people were STILL Irish.

Based on geophraphy yes but i've already said its either or. Your saying its exclusively geographical.

I know its a construct but that doesn't the fact that both British and Irish nationalities fit the accepted definition.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Based on geophraphy yes but i've already said its either or. Your saying its exclusively geographical.

I know its a construct but that doesn't the fact that both British and Irish nationalities fit the accepted definition.

Yes it is exclusively geographical. If you are born on the island of Ireland you are Irish.
You can, when able, accept a nationality or an identity. Nobody is taking that right away.

To claim as somebody did, that the people's in NI are diiferent to the rest of us is wrong. We are all Irish with different choices of nationality and identity.
There was a lady on Joe Duffy today, living in Newry for 22 years but born and raised in Tipp. She was brought up as Irish and followed GAA avidly but now describes herself as 'Unionist Lite' with a daughter who identifies as British. She has changed her identity, in other words...but she is still Irish.

Rodin

15-20 years

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes it is exclusively geographical. If you are born on the island of Ireland you are Irish.
You can, when able, accept a nationality or an identity. Nobody is taking that right away.

To claim as somebody did, that the people's in NI are diiferent to the rest of us is wrong. We are all Irish with different choices of nationality and identity.
There was a lady on Joe Duffy today, living in Newry for 22 years but born and raised in Tipp. She was brought up as Irish and followed GAA avidly but now describes herself as 'Unionist Lite' with a daughter who identifies as British. She has changed her identity, in other words...but she is still Irish.

I heard the same woman.
She needs to read a history book on internment.
Hasn't a notion about the troubles.
If you don't like how they do things in the place you move to then go home.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes it is exclusively geographical. If you are born on the island of Ireland you are Irish.
You can, when able, accept a nationality or an identity. Nobody is taking that right away.

To claim as somebody did, that the people's in NI are diiferent to the rest of us is wrong. We are all Irish with different choices of nationality and identity.
There was a lady on Joe Duffy today, living in Newry for 22 years but born and raised in Tipp. She was brought up as Irish and followed GAA avidly but now describes herself as 'Unionist Lite' with a daughter who identifies as British. She has changed her identity, in other words...but she is still Irish.

Can you find a definition that says it is exclusively geographical?

But her daughter if born in Newry could rightly claim either nationality.

FrancieBrady

Rodin wrote: »

I heard the same woman.
She needs to read a history book on internment.
Hasn't a notion about the troubles.
If you don't like how they do things in the place you move to then go home.

Just the usual nonsense really. 'themuns' are the problem and a steadfast refusal to see the bigger picture. Or that 'themuns' simply don't see the IRA as terrorists.

I was dying for someone to ask her, should Carson be pulled down?, given he was the original 'terrorist', and introduced the gun back into Irish politics. She was close enough to tears and that might have been the final straw though.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Can you find a definition that says it is exclusively geographical?

But her daughter if born in Newry could rightly claim either nationality.

I never claimed she couldn't. But the mother changed her identity...which is possible, because everyone chooses their identity and the strength of it. Nobody is born with one.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I was dying for someone to ask her, should Carson be pulled down?, given he was the original 'terrorist', and introduced the gun back into Irish politics.

Carson did not use a gun. And guns were used by Irish rebels in Ireland before Carsons time. Get your facts right.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Carson did not use a gun. And guns were used by Irish rebels in Ireland before Carsons time. Get your facts right.

and introduced the gun back into Irish politics.