How long before Irish reunification?

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

But Northern Ireland isn't a country. It's a British controlled portion of the province of Ulster.

They would be Irish due to being born in Ireland and British by choice due to the current political climate in that part of Ulster.

.

Absolute nonsense, that bears no resemblance to the legal realities.

More correctly, delusional nonsense. The GFA recognised British sovereignty over Northern Ireland. The territorial claim was dropped from the Irish Constitution.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You're really showing yourself up DC. It must be exhausting being a 15th generation British person living in Ireland.

Junkyard. You and francie are struggling with the number of counties in the country of Ireland. Here is a clue to help you. Count all the counties who elect MPs to the dail. ???

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Absolute nonsense, that bears no resemblance to the legal realities.

More correctly, delusional nonsense. The GFA recognised British sovereignty over Northern Ireland. The territorial claim was dropped from the Irish Constitution.

No, it recognised that NI is for now a part of the UK...not Britain, which is England Scotland and Wales.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You're really showing yourself up DC. It must be exhausting being a 15th generation British person living in Ireland.

It must be even more exhausting for you. You must be even more than 15 generations here. Where did yous come from anyway, just out of curiosity.?

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

Here's the very relevant Cliff Taylor article in The Irish Times from yesterday, Thursday. Plenty of details, and very interesting about the huge gap in educational standards between the north and the south. Also interesting that Hong Kong's changeover period was 13 years, and that the border region of the republic is actually poorer (slightly) than the north.

Merging two economies: How would a united Ireland add up?

15% of GDP :eek:

A lot more than I thought.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, it recognised that NI is for now a part of the UK...not Britain, which is England Scotland and Wales.

Still denying people their birthright, Francie.

People born in Northern Ireland are British by birthright or Irish by birthright, there is no automaticity.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

And it points to the huge amount of further research and decision making which would be needed in planning out the future of a united economy.

Hopefully that will stop our resident sensationalist amateur accountants in their tracks. I doubt it though.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Still denying people their birthright, Francie.

People born in Northern Ireland are British by birthright or Irish by birthright, there is no automaticity.

I fully recognise the birthright of people to identify as they see fit blanch.

Which you know is different to the physical certainty of being Irish because you were born in Ireland. Just as you are not born with an identity, you are also not born the property of whatever country happens to be in charge.

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

It must be even more exhausting for you. You must be even more than 15 generations here. Where did yous come from anyway, just out of curiosity?

I'm not too sure, I'm fair haired and tallish so I'd say there might be Norse there in the distant past. We're fairly well integrated now though unlike you British lads in the northeast.

FrancieBrady

You where trumpeting the Fitzgerald/Morgentroth report here before and it was discussed. But it is 'worse' than you thought now? :D Who do you think you are codding here.

You took the worst figure out of that article you could find, IGNORED that it is based on us taking the full cost and pretended you'd never heard it before.

You are a chancer.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just as you are not born with an identity, you are also not born the property of whatever country happens to be in charge.

What rubbish. " I was not born with an identity and I am not born the property of whatever country happens to be in charge". So I can choose my identity and I am not born the property of the Irish government even though they happen to be in charge now, even though 100 years ago I could have chosen a UK passport / identity?

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'm not too sure, I'm fair haired and tallish so I'd say there might be Norse there in the distant past. We're fairly well integrated now though unlike you British lads in the northeast.

I think the most revealing thing on this thread has been finding out about the existence of a 'belligerent Unionist Bubble'. The idea that you would be proud of the fact that you know nothing of the island on which you live outside that which you can possessively call 'British', is incredible really. Says a lot about insecurity and hidebound ideologies.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

So I can choose my identity

Exactly what I was saying. You 'choose' identity.

Your mother decides where you are born, you don't choose that and can never change that.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think the most revealing thing on this thread has been finding out about the existence of a 'belligerent Unionist Bubble'. The idea that you would be proud of the fact that you know nothing of the island on which you live outside that which you can possessively call 'British', is incredible really.

If you think that is true then it shows you really do not understand or know your neighbours in N Ireland : they obviously know you better than you know them because they do not want to associate with you because of your sectarian ideas.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

If you think that is true then it shows you really do not understand or know your neighbours in N Ireland : they obviously know you better than you know them because they do not want to associate with you because of your sectarian ideas.

downcow wrote a post on it. Find it and read it.

Rodin

15-20 years

downcow wrote: »

One of the 4 very proud countries that make up the union that is the UK.
Known by various affectionate names eg NI, Ulster, the province, the occupied 6, the sectarian statelet, the black north, and my favourite, OurWeeCountry.

Ulster has nine counties

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I fully recognise the birthright of people to identify as they see fit blanch.

Which you know is different to the physical certainty of being Irish because you were born in Ireland. Just as you are not born with an identity, you are also not born the property of whatever country happens to be in charge.

There is no such thing as the physical certainty of being Irish. More nonsense.

That is just another phrase you have invented to justify your continual sectarian bigoted interpretation of citizenship.

Rodin

15-20 years

Reunification is coming. And it will be voted for by the people north and south of the border and will happen on the passing of those votes as mandated by law.

We'll then see how democratic the DUP really are.

This whole island will be better off as a unified economy.

I doubt those north of the border mind when Dublin's best cardiac surgeons come north to see their children. Just one example of cross-border co-operation which is already in place.

FrancieBrady

Rodin wrote: »

Ulster has nine counties

I think downcow thought he was being edgy.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

There is no such thing as the physical certainty of being Irish. More nonsense.

That is just another phrase you have invented to justify your continual sectarian bigoted interpretation of citizenship.

There is a physical certainty of where you are born. Paisley knew and confident Unionists know it and fair play to them.

Why don't you continue to find geographical terms with the word 'British' in them so you can align with the kerb painters and fleg wavers to get a political voice against a UI blanch?

Ineffably sad what partitionists will stoop to.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is a physical certainty of where you are born. Paisley knew and confident Unionists know it and fair play to them.

Why don't you continue to find geographical terms with the word 'British' in them so you can align with the kerb painters and fleg wavers to get a political voice against a UI blanch?

Ineffably sad what partitionists will stoop to.

Francie, you and junkyard have spent a lot of energy ducking and diving and trying to avoid the reality that the entire world recognises ni as an integral part of the uk. The uk whether you like it or not is British. That’s fact.
Aligning yourself with Ian Paisley achieves nothing other than demonstrating your desperation.

I wish there was a way of allowing the little republican rump living here to truly feel part of OWC but I guess we will just have to wait another generation or two for that to happen naturally.
We need to continue to work towards making this place a warmer house for your kind. And there is more we can do eg removing the uk anthem from football matches so as everyone can embrace our cross community and diverse international team etc etc

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie, you and junkyard have spent a lot of energy ducking and diving and trying to avoid the reality that the entire world recognises ni as an integral part of the uk. The uk whether you like it or not is British. That’s fact.
Aligning yourself with Ian Paisley achieves nothing other than demonstrating your desperation.

I wish there was a way of allowing the little republican rump living here to truly feel part of OWC but I guess we will just have to wait another generation or two for that to happen naturally.
We need to continue to work towards making this place a warmer house for your kind. And there is more we can do eg removing the uk anthem from football matches so as everyone can embrace our cross community and diverse international team etc etc

Downcow, nobody, in all of this discussion, has said or 'denied' that Ni is not part of the UK at the moment.

And nobody feels any less Irish when the Irish Football Association fields their team.

Paisley, whatever you think of his politics, was a strong and confident Irish Unionist, he simply didn't need tattoos or flags to tell you who he was.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

We need to continue to work towards making this place a warmer house for your kind.

BTW, after 100 years, this ^ initiative is probably a tad too late. You had your chance to create a normal society but you kinda blew it and the current party you insist on giving power to are not showing the same willingness to at least 'understand' what equality and secular means.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Downcow, nobody, in all of this discussion, has said or 'denied' that Ni is not part of the UK at the moment.

.

And use one word, just one word to describe people of the UK Francie. It's a ten mark question, no phone a friend or ask down the corridor in Parnell square.


Hint: it begins with a B.

C'mon Francie, you can do it. Remember people of the United States have one word for themselves too , it is American. If you meet someone and they say they are American, you know they are from the United States of America, not Canada or Mexico etc. Similarily, people of the UK have one word they can describe themselves with Francie. It begins with B. No Francie, it is not bast....
It is British.

Lesson over Framcie.

If a newscaster anywhere in the world says "British and American troops have liberated x part of Kuwait" for example, you know on an Atlas what jurisdiction those troops are from. T'is easier than saying troops of the United Kingdom and of the United States of Amerikay...

Junkyard Tom

30-40 years

downcow wrote: »

Francie, you and junkyard have spent a lot of energy ducking and diving and trying to avoid the reality that the entire world recognises ni as an integral part of the uk.

The north isn't an 'integral part' of the UK like Scotland, Wales and England as much as you'd like to fool yourself it is, more of an appendage, a contested region.

The British never considered the creation of the gerrymandered statelet a permanent solution to the Irish question. The British have 'no selfish or strategic interest in NI'. The north is already in constitutional limbo since the GFA was signed. The Irish claim over the north remains codified in the constitution.

The British have agreed that the future of the north is a matter for the people of Ireland alone (that's you and me) without external impediment (i.e. the British Government).

Also what you need to realise is that OWC is not Our Wee Colony any longer - it was, but you guys made an utter balls of that culminating in its proroguing by the British in the early 1970's which was considered a betrayal - now ye are desperately hoping the British return to Direct Rule only this time it would be considered a victory.

NI is a failed statelet and your own attitude is evidence of it.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Paisley, whatever you think of his politics, was a strong and confident Irish Unionist.

Francie I can see you are a huge admirer of paisleys leadership.
I couldn’t disagree more. He lived in fear and seige mentality and tried to drag everyone into it with him. Thankfully the vast majority of unionists are very confident about their future in the UK and very appreciative of the way the UK has stood by them through the ira sectarian onslaught.
Gerry told us there would be a UI by 2016 and we just laughed. What’s your date francie? Go on give us all a laugh.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

And use one word, just one word to describe people of the UK Francie. It's a ten mark question, no phone a friend or ask down the corridor in Parnell square.


Hint: it begins with a B.

If somebody specifically identifies the word 'British' as a descriptor for them, I have no issue using it.
If they don't I use the country of their birth...Scotland, Wales, England etc.

Who in their right mind would say Billy Connolly was British before they would say Scottish? Or who would turn on the telly to watch the rugby and say that 2 British teams are playing each other, one of them is in white and the other one is playing in red and white?

The UK is a 'union' of countries jan that includes Great Britain AND northern Ireland

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie I can see you are a huge admirer of paisleys leadership.
I couldn’t disagree more. He lived in fear and seige mentality and tried to drag everyone into it with him. Thankfully the vast majority of unionists are very confident about their future in the UK and very appreciative of the way the UK has stood by them through the ira sectarian onslaught.
Gerry told us there would be a UI by 2016 and we just laughed. What’s your date francie? Go on give us all a laugh.

I didn't particularly admire Paisley, I don't admire bigots and sectarian opportunists.

I know Unionists have a habit of hearing things no-one else hears too.

There will be a UI when 51% vote for it downcow, you should sit down this weekend and read the GFA, that's the roadmap.

janfebmar

Give us a date Francie. Gerry was proven wrong a number of times. Go on, we could do with a laugh.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If somebody specifically identifies the word 'British' as a descriptor for them, I have no issue using it.
If they don't I use the country of their birth...Scotland, Wales, England etc.

Who in their right mind would say Billy Connolly was British before they would say Scottish? Or who would turn on the telly to watch the rugby and say that 2 British teams are playing each other, one of them is in white and the other one is playing in red and white?

The UK is a 'union' of countries jan that includes Great Britain AND northern Ireland

Billy Connolly was born in the country of Scotland which is a constituent country of the UK.

If born in Belfast your country of birth isn't Ireland. Ireland soverignty applies only to 26 counties as accepted by all who voted for the GFA.

You just said you use the country of birth was that a mistake?