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Indeed 'creates' 600 jobs...

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13

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    #62
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    They would have all the same tax and IDA support in Shannon as Dublin wouldnt they? So why did they pixk Dublin?

    They'd have more IDA support outside Dublin


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    #63
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    .. And yet these jobs are looking for people who aren't here. Which why we have people immigrating for these jobs...

    As things like hospitals close regionally and services are moved to Dublin all those connected to these services will now have work in Dublin.


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    #64
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    beauf wrote: »
    .. And yet these jobs are looking for people who aren't here. Which why we have people immigrating for these jobs...

    Indeed's employees are going to be a mix of people who are already here and people coming here to work for them.
    The colleges producing employees they want are in Dublin.
    The experienced Irish employees are already in Dublin.
    It is easier to hire people from abroad to live in Dublin than to live in Shannon.
    beauf wrote: »
    As things like hospitals close regionally and services are moved to Dublin all those connected to these services will now have work in Dublin.

    Patient outcomes are better when they are treated by doctors who work with that condition regularly. Cancer treatment is better when supplied by oncologists, rather than generalists.

    Where do you put your specialist cancer centre? In Clifden or Dublin. Clifden doesn't have enough people in the area to support a specialist centre, and it would be a pain in the arse for people to travel to. Dublin has a large population nearby, and is at the hub of the transport network.


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    #65
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    beauf wrote: »
    .. And yet these jobs are looking for people who aren't here. Which why we have people immigrating for these jobs...

    As things like hospitals close regionally and services are moved to Dublin all those connected to these services will now have work in Dublin.

    It's not Indeeds fault that our central and local governments are useless or that our housing policy & health service is a mess. Appointing two ministers with zero experience to the key portfolios of housing and health was not a decision made by Indeed.
    We've got problems, but it should be a lot easier to solve the problems with 600 more jobs in Dublin and all the tax revenue that Indeed will generate.

    Every other country in Europe would want these jobs in one of their major cities. It's not Indeed being in Dublin that's the problem, it is our response to it.
    It's not going to be as simple as putting Indeed in Athlone or Shannon, cos they aren't going to go there. They will go to Berlin or Lisbon. But Indeed et al never go to the likes of Kiel or Rostock or any German city comparable with Limerick or Waterford.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #66
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    No one implied its Indeed fault. What an odd response.


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    #67
    BattlingCheese
    Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭BattlingCheese


    beauf wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/we-cant-force-foreign-firms-to-locate-to-rural-areas-ida-29930832.html

    Are their any reports showing how how much funding is allocated outside of Dublin?

    See here
    https://dbei.gov.ie/en/Publications/Publication-files/RAG-Info-Note-2014.pdf

    Multinational companies setting up in Dublin and Cork are ineligible for regional aid.


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    #68
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    RayCun wrote: »
    Indeed's employees are going to be a mix of people who are already here and people coming here to work for them.
    The colleges producing employees they want are in Dublin.
    The experienced Irish employees are already in Dublin.
    It is easier to hire people from abroad to live in Dublin than to live in Shannon.

    So we both have the right people and we also don't have the people.
    RayCun wrote: »
    Patient outcomes are better when they are treated by doctors who work with that condition regularly. Cancer treatment is better when supplied by oncologists, rather than generalists.

    Where do you put your specialist cancer centre? In Clifden or Dublin. Clifden doesn't have enough people in the area to support a specialist centre, and it would be a pain in the arse for people to travel to. Dublin has a large population nearby, and is at the hub of the transport network.

    We aren't moving specialist centres. We are moving all services.

    Its doesn't matter whats nearby if its a national specialist centre. People will have to come to it from everywhere in the country. I'm sure if the mean distance for all users was calculated it wouldn't be located far right at the edge of the catchment.

    Hub of the transport network :D

    No matter what argument is made, a few years later the priorities change and the goalposts shift to whatever location is the flavour of the month.


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    #69
    MartyMcFly84
    Registered Users Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭MartyMcFly84


    For the most part people are following the tech jobs. If you go to Facebook and Google the majority of technical roles are done by immigrants who followed the jobs here.

    I work in a tech company and its about a 50/50 split of Irish and Non Irish. Of the approx 50 Irish people about 8 are from Dublin and the rest are from all over Ireland. While I know that this is just one small company if you look around many tech companies in Ireland you will find a similar split.

    We struggle to recruit in Dublin because there is so much competition for limited number of qualified staff. They majority of new technical roles are taken up by people coming from abroad or outside of Dublin.

    Before Google came to Dublin in 2003 there was no Digital Docks or Tech Hub in Dublin. All it took was one Major company in this sector to locate here and all the other followed suit to copy Google and take advantage of our corporate tax system and employ Google leavers.


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    #70
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    beauf wrote: »
    No one implied its Indeed fault. What an odd response.

    I don't have a problem with Indeed coming here, but if someone thinks it's a problem that these 600 jobs are coming to Dublin then how can Indeed not have some culpability in that. The problem of the 600 jobs wouldn't exist without them.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #71
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    beauf wrote: »
    Its doesn't matter whats nearby if its a national specialist centre. People will have to come to it from everywhere in the country. I'm sure if the mean distance for all users was calculated it wouldn't be located far right at the edge of the catchment.

    Yes it would. I'm not sure if you have much knowledge of spatial analysis, but the Population Centre of Ireland is between Maynooth and Lucan.


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    #72
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    beauf wrote: »
    So we both have the right people and we also don't have the people.

    Dublin has more of the right people than anywhere else, and it is easier to get people from abroad to come to Dublin than to anywhere else.
    Not complicated.
    beauf wrote: »
    Its doesn't matter whats nearby if its a national specialist centre. People will have to come to it from everywhere in the country. I'm sure if the mean distance for all users was calculated it wouldn't be located far right at the edge of the catchment.

    Don't calculate mean distance, calculate mean travel time.
    beauf wrote: »
    Hub of the transport network :D

    er, yeah, it is
    beauf wrote: »
    No matter what argument is made, a few years later the priorities change and the goalposts shift to whatever location is the flavour of the month.

    I thought you were complaining that Dublin was always flavour of the month?


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    #73
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,359 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    beauf wrote: »


    Its doesn't matter whats nearby if its a national specialist centre. People will have to come to it from everywhere in the country. I'm sure if the mean distance for all users was calculated it wouldn't be located far right at the edge of the catchment.
    .

    I disagree with closing regional hospitals etc and fully agree that services should be spread countrywide but are you arguing in the above that Dublin isn’t the most logical location for something that we are only going to have one of that people all over the country will need to access? Dublin and the surrounding counties make up a huge percentage of the population and it’s reasonably central geographically with a good motorway network heading off in various directions.
    It’s not perfect but it’s easier for people from all counties to get to Dublin than any other location.


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    #74
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    MartyMcFly84 wrote: »
    Before Google came to Dublin in 2003 there was no Digital Docks or Tech Hub in Dublin. All it took was one Major company in this sector to locate here and all the other followed suit to copy Google and take advantage of our corporate tax system and employ Google leavers.

    ah no, there were plenty of tech companies in Dublin before 2003. The sector has grown a lot, you could argue Google represented a step change, but it was building on what already existed.


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    #75
    MartyMcFly84
    Registered Users Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭MartyMcFly84


    I am not complaining about 600 jobs in Indeed coming to Ireland. However it is a part of a trend of thousands of jobs, Indeed, Amazon, Facebook, Salesforce all expanding in Dublin which will attract thousands more people and families to Dublin city that has about 2000 properties currently available to rent.

    https://www.daft.ie/report/ronan-lyons-2018q4-rental

    Rent rates for current Dublin residents continues to increase at a rate faster than salaries. The solution of "Build more houses" will take over a decade to catch up with demand and install infrastructure. Last summer we had a couple weeks of nice weather and there was water restrictions all over Dublin.


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    #76
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    RayCun wrote: »
    ah no, there were plenty of tech companies in Dublin before 2003. The sector has grown a lot, you could argue Google represented a step change, but it was building on what already existed.

    Microsoft, Oracle, Sun were all here albeit not in the Docks, unless you count East Point.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #77
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Amirani wrote: »
    Yes it would. I'm not sure if you have much knowledge of spatial analysis, but the Population Centre of Ireland is between Maynooth and Lucan.

    From 2014, it's shifted further East since then too: https://imgur.com/q439KW0

    q439KW0.png


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    #78
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Amirani wrote: »
    Yes it would. I'm not sure if you have much knowledge of spatial analysis, but the Population Centre of Ireland is between Maynooth and Lucan.

    But not city centre though....;)

    On unofficial polls most people want stuff to be outside of the city, but near the M50.


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    #79
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    beauf wrote: »
    On unofficial polls most people want stuff to be outside of the city, but near the M50.

    That means access by car.

    Public transport links are much better for things in the city centre.


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    #80
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    MartyMcFly84 wrote: »
    ...
    Before Google came to Dublin in 2003 there was no Digital Docks or Tech Hub in Dublin. All it took was one Major company in this sector to locate here and all the other followed suit to copy Google and take advantage of our corporate tax system and employ Google leavers.

    We had Microsoft, Apple, Dell, Digital, PLasey etc.

    We also had the Guinness digital Hub also 2003.


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    #81
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    RayCun wrote: »
    That means access by car.

    Public transport links are much better for things in the city centre.

    As the vast majority of journeys to Hospitals are by car, it makes no sense to make public transport a priority in the location. But thats what we are doing.
    Let not get into the hospital thing, its just a reflection of Dublin centralised policy.


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    #82
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    beauf wrote: »
    As the vast majority of journeys to Hospitals are by car, it makes no sense to make public transport a priority in the location. But thats what we are doing.
    Let not get into the hospital thing, its just a reflection of Dublin centralised policy.

    If the hospital is somewhere only accessibly by car, then visits will be by car.

    I'm not aware of any statistics on journeys to St James (or the Coombe, the Rotunda etc), would be interesting to know. Remember a large proportion of journeys will be made by staff.


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    #83
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    RayCun wrote: »
    If the hospital is somewhere only accessibly by car, then visits will be by car..

    Those stats are Dublin hospitals surrounded by public transport.
    RayCun wrote: »
    I'm not aware of any statistics on journeys to St James (or the Coombe, the Rotunda etc), would be interesting to know. Remember a large proportion of journeys will be made by staff.

    Indeed.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/parking-row-at-st-jamess-hospital-2915019-Aug2016/


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    #84
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,078 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    RayCun wrote: »
    If the hospital is somewhere only accessibly by car, then visits will be by car.

    I'm not aware of any statistics on journeys to St James (or the Coombe, the Rotunda etc), would be interesting to know. Remember a large proportion of journeys will be made by staff.

    St James is probably the most easily accessed hospital for people outside of Dublin using public transport too. It's on the red line which connects Heuston, Connolly and Busaras. Every inter city Irish Rail or Bus Eireann route in the country goes to one of them.


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    #85
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Anyway, I know is a self fulling circle that big cities draw people to them. There is that. But we could be a bit smarter about it.


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    #86
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Someone mentioned the Govt being unsuccessful at decentralising itself. Well that was hijacked by other political interests. poorly managed also.


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    #87
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,078 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    beauf wrote: »
    Those stats are Dublin hospitals surrounded by public transport.



    Indeed.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/parking-row-at-st-jamess-hospital-2915019-Aug2016/
    “A full-time mobility manager has been in place for the last year to assist staff in planning their journeys to and from work.”

    Is it any wonder that the health service is over budget year after year.


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    #88
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,309 ✭✭✭markpb


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    Is it any wonder that the health service is over budget year after year.

    Which do you think is cheaper: hiring someone to encourage staff to make trips without a car or buying/renting thousands of car park spaces in the city centre?


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    #89
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I doubt they ever analysed what % of their staff could (or would) use public transport. Before deciding everyone had to use it.


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    #90
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,309 ✭✭✭markpb


    beauf wrote: »
    I doubt they ever analysed what % of their staff could (or would) use public transport. Before deciding everyone had to use it.

    No-one in SJH has decided anything. It still has a sizeable on-campus car park and overflow parking nearby. They even put on a shuttle bus to bring employees from the overflow to the hospital.

    However, it's also impossible for them to provide enough parking for all the staff which is why they have someone to encourage people to take alternative transport. I haven't met them (I don't work in SJH) but I'm fairly sure that encouragement does not include taking a baseball bat to people who insist on driving.


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    #91
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Sounds like the bull in a china shop management approach. Smooth.


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