Accident

cena

splinter65 wrote: »

Why did she get an ambulance?

Someone called one for her. As it happened outside the m&m store in new york

splinter65

cena wrote: »

Someone called one for her. As it happened outside the m&m store in new york

Ok. Expensive lift to the hospital!

antoinolachtnai

markjbloggs wrote: »

that is soooooooo Irish

The OP's relative is left in a situation where the hospital and the various allied services may well be left unpaid for their work.

Is it 'Irish' to not pay doctors?

antoinolachtnai

realdanbreen wrote: »

I'm surprised the hospital even looked at her without establishing first whether or not she had cover. This is a country with a huge bible belt but they worship the $ !

There is an obligation in US law to treat emergency patients, whether or not they have the means to pay.

cena

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The OP's relative is left in a situation where the hospital and the various allied services may well be left unpaid for their work.

Is it 'Irish' to not pay doctors?

Never said the bill won't be paid

keeponrockin

PM me nudes wrote: »

OP don't forget that hospitals in the US are more often than not willing to be paid a sum that is substantially less than the bill they give when it is being settled away from insurance, so don't be afraid to "make an offer" when the bill is received.

Never knew that and nice to have a positive comment that might help the OP!

shamrock55

Gonna be a costly holiday, my wife is a travel agent and shes amazed at the amount of people who go abroad without getting insurance even when she advises them to get it they see it as a waste of a few meesly quid and it's so common for people to have accidents get sick or even die on holiday, madness really

Tombo2001

Some amount of smart alecks on this thread. Why do people love to put the boot in.....

cena

We have a cousin that works in a hospital in Brooklyn. Maybe he can help.

splinter65

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The OP's relative is left in a situation where the hospital and the various allied services may well be left unpaid for their work.

Is it 'Irish' to not pay doctors?

It’s well documented in the media at the moment that here in Ireland it’s quite common to blame someone else and seek financial recompense from them when youve tripped over your own feet really.

splinter65

splinter65 wrote: »

It’s well documented in the media at the moment that here in Ireland it’s quite common to blame someone else and seek financial recompense from them when youve tripped over your own feet really.

Yes, but the 'compensation culture', as it's known, most certainly has American origins. It's definitely a more American trait than an Irish one.




Anyway, that aside...


I actually only learned very recently that if you get an ambulance in the US that you have to pay for it, and it's in the thousands of dollars. Someone on Reddit posted complaining before that they ended up with a huge bill, and they ended up mentioning that they paid about 5k for the ambulance journey alone.


America isn't a specifically 'cheap' country, so it's not like a thousand dollars is the same as a hundred euro over here. It's a massive bill. I was dumbfounded when I heard this, and I, at 30 years old, never knew this was the case.


Made me really appreciate the services that we have here in Ireland.

cena

So far the doctors bill is only less than 300 dollars. Would be more if bill was sent to Ireland

khaldrogo

Boxcar_Willie wrote:

Ambulance won't be cheap , then consultation , X-ray , cast etc... I'd say she's looking at $8,000 to $10,000.

For 2 broken fingers!!!!! Ridiculous

cena

khaldrogo wrote: »

For 2 broken fingers!!!!! Ridiculous

It's only the one now. They have told her she needs an operation but to wait till she gets home

khaldrogo

So is it definitely on 300$? Incl ambulance?

banie01

cena wrote: »

So far the doctors bill is only less than 300 dollars. Would be more if bill was sent to Ireland

If she was in an FDNY ambulance the charge should be less than $400 for the ambulance portion of the costs.
If that doctors bill is full and final, I'd snap their hand off to clear it.

US practice is to charge each incident separately however so there may be a follow on bill

cena

banie01 wrote: »

If she was in an FDNY ambulance the charge should be less than $400 for the ambulance portion of the costs.
If that doctors bill is full and final, I'd snap their hand off to clear it.

US practice is to charge each incident separately however so there may be a follow on bill

If it was an FDNY ambulance our cousin maybe able to help out as he is a fire chief with fdny

cena

khaldrogo wrote: »

So is it definitely on 300$? Incl ambulance?

I don't know if they includes ambulance

Del2005

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Some amount of smart alecks on this thread. Why do people love to put the boot in.....

Because too many people will spend thousands of Euro on a holiday and not spend a few Euro for travel insurance. Then when they get sick or injured in a foreign country they start a begging campaign to get treatment or home.

The OP on the other hand unfortunately forgot to renew their insurance and now have a large bill on the way.

My mother (60s at the time) took ill (breathing related) in a NYC hotel, they called for an ambulance, she was taken to hospital, examined etc, kept for one night. The bill she received was 23k + some change, that nearly gave her a heart related condition, anyhow, she had insurance but they refused to pay the bill as they were not the initial contact.They said she or whomever was dealing with the situation should have used the contact info that came with her policy and the people on the other end of that phone would of organised assistance for her. That is fair enough I guess if you are in a position to call them first, not much use if you are unable to. Fortunately we have some friends who ran a travel business and they were able to settle through their company insurance, I don't know how much they settled for but the mammy got a lucky break that time.
I will be amazed if the bill is less than 10k. Not much help to you I know.I hope everything works out ok.

whippet

Last year in Florida my missus had a dislocated shoulder .. quick ambulance trip, X-ray, bit of manipulation, anti-inflammatories, pain killers and sling .. total 3 hours ... bill for $3,500 or there abouts ... we didn’t settle anything leaving the hospital but only signed a form to say we had insurance.

After a lot of running around it has been paid by travel
Insurance .. but we received 4 different bills .. X-ray, ambulance, doc and hospital.

We had no indication of how much we were being invoiced on discharge. All bills were sent to home address and we had to send these on to insurance company.

Debt collectors were very quick to call

Squatter

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Some amount of smart alecks on this thread. Why do people love to put the boot in.....

Possibly because of the OP's whimsical : "I guess it's too late to get travel insurance now?"

dennyk

cena wrote: »

So far the doctors bill is only less than 300 dollars. Would be more if bill was sent to Ireland

Keep in mind that healthcare bills in the US are ridiculously complicated; that "doctor's bill" will only be a small part of the total, as each entity involved in treatment issues their own bills separately. She can likely expect to receive multiple additional bills from the hospital (for the ER admission, tests administered by nurses, medicine and supplies used in treatment, etc.), the radiology department (for the X-rays), the ambulance company, and also possibly bills from any other doctors who consulted on the case (even if they did not speak to your mother directly) and any labs which performed any tests (on drawn blood, etc.). These will likely total at least a few thousand dollars in all, possibly much more, and it could be weeks or longer before she actually receives all of them. It's going to be an expensive lesson about traveling to the US without health insurance, I'm afraid.

Bananaleaf

Two years ago, myself and the OP were in the states. He had a minor procedure booked in hospital here in Ireland that would be happening upon his return. A scan to investigate some abdominal pain.

We had 'Gold' level travel insurance with 123.ie. Apparently the best you can get. One evening, a week into a 2 week trip, he started to feel unwell. He panicked, thinking it might have been more serious than it eventually turned out to be and we made the very quick decision to get an emergency flight home and then request that the scan be done privately here in Ireland the next day.

It all turned out to be nothing and he's as fit as a fiddle, but at the time we had just gotten our deposit for our mortgage together and we were too worried that some loophole would mean that the insurance company wouldnt have to pay out and we would lose our entire mortgage deposit and possibly more.

Couldn't claim the emergency flight change costs from insurance, understandably, as there turned out to be no reason to warrant the emergency flight, but at the time we didn't give a damn about that anyway, we were just relieved that he was ok.

OP - try not to panic. Hopefully everything will be okay.

Geuze

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyway, that aside...


I actually only learned very recently that if you get an ambulance in the US that you have to pay for it, and it's in the thousands of dollars. Someone on Reddit posted complaining before that they ended up with a huge bill, and they ended up mentioning that they paid about 5k for the ambulance journey alone.


America isn't a specifically 'cheap' country, so it's not like a thousand dollars is the same as a hundred euro over here. It's a massive bill. I was dumbfounded when I heard this, and I, at 30 years old, never knew this was the case.

You have to pay for all healthcare in the USA, using either cash or insurance.

Here is a discussion of air ambulance prices:

https://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2018/06/cross-subsidies.html


https://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2018/11/cross-subsidies-and-monopolization.html

Commercial Insurance Pays More for Ambulance Trips Than Government Insurance Pays. The average cost of an ambulance trip in California is about $750. Medicare and Medi-Cal pay ambulance companies a fixed amount for each trip. Medicare pays about $450 per trip and Medi-Cal pays about $100 per trip. As a result, ambulance companies lose money transporting Medicare and Medi-Cal patients. Ambulance companies also lose money when they transport patients with no insurance. This is because these patients typically cannot pay for these trips. To make up for these losses, ambulance companies bill patients with commercial insurance more than the average cost of an ambulance trip. On average, commercial insurers pay $1,800 per trip, more than double the cost of a typical ambulance ride.

Tombo2001

Del2005 wrote: »

Because too many people will spend thousands of Euro on a holiday and not spend a few Euro for travel insurance. Then when they get sick or injured in a foreign country they start a begging campaign to get treatment or home.

The OP on the other hand unfortunately forgot to renew their insurance and now have a large bill on the way.

Well then direct your venom towards "too many people" - whoever that is.

And dont take it out and OP and their mother.

Seems to me that "too many people" on this thread are actively disappointed that the bill might be only $300 or $400. Stops them doing the big 'told you so' routine.

Laughable.

Tombo2001

Squatter wrote: »

Possibly because of the OP's whimsical : "I guess it's too late to get travel insurance now?"

So that gives people carte blanche to put the boot in?

No, it doesnt.

él statutorio

To OP.

Don't stress about it for now. The most important thing is your mam is fine.

She's going to get a bunch of bills over the next few weeks. All with varying prices. You don't need to start paying attention until the final statement. With the Ambulance etc I think you'll be in or around the $10k mark. By the time X-rays etc go on the final bill it'll balloon from that $300 pretty fast.

Now, you can negotiate with the hospital billing department and plead an inability to pay. Start very low ($1k) and negotiate up from there. You actually have the upper hand because they have no power to enforce payment over your mam in Ireland, they'll likely take a fraction of the amount owed because they know you have no obligation to pay.

cena

él statutorio wrote: »

To OP.

Don't stress about it for now. The most important thing is your mam is fine.

She's going to get a bunch of bills over the next few weeks. All with varying prices. You don't need to start paying attention until the final statement. With the Ambulance etc I think you'll be in or around the $10k mark. By the time X-rays etc go on the final bill it'll balloon from that $300 pretty fast.

Now, you can negotiate with the hospital billing department and plead an inability to pay. Start very low ($1k) and negotiate up from there. You actually have the upper hand because they have no power to enforce payment over your mam in Ireland, they'll likely take a fraction of the amount owed because they know you have no obligation to pay.

Just say if the bill wasn't paid and she returns to the states. What kind of trouble could she get into?

Thoie

él statutorio wrote: »

Now, you can negotiate with the hospital billing department and plead an inability to pay. Start very low ($1k) and negotiate up from there. You actually have the upper hand because they have no power to enforce payment over your mam in Ireland, they'll likely take a fraction of the amount owed because they know you have no obligation to pay.

Well, everyone has an obligation to pay their debts, but enforcing that payment will be more difficult for them as she lives abroad.

However, if they do go down the whole legal route, getting a judgement, etc, the repercussions of not paying could be very awkward. The likelihood is that they may not bother, so the rest of the advice to start with a low offer is good, but I certainly wouldn't ignore it completely.

If she's over visiting a relative who lives there, it's possible that the relative signed something as "guarantor", so I wouldn't stick my head in the sand.

Main thing, cena, is try not to stress, be glad that it's "only" a broken finger that can wait for further treatment until she gets home. No-one is either going to die or go to jail over this.