Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Accident

Options
13

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    él statutorio
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭él statutorio


    Thoie wrote: »
    Well, everyone has an obligation to pay their debts, but enforcing that payment will be more difficult for them as she lives abroad.

    However, if they do go down the whole legal route, getting a judgement, etc, the repercussions of not paying could be very awkward. The likelihood is that they may not bother, so the rest of the advice to start with a low offer is good, but I certainly wouldn't ignore it completely.

    If she's over visiting a relative who lives there, it's possible that the relative signed something as "guarantor", so I wouldn't stick my head in the sand.

    Main thing, cena, is try not to stress, be glad that it's "only" a broken finger that can wait for further treatment until she gets home. No-one is either going to die or go to jail over this.

    You're correct, there is an obligation, I should've worded it better.

    The have no legal means of forcing her to pay is what I should've said.


  • Options
    #63
    Guffy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭Guffy


    cena wrote: »
    It expired last December. When we were both over there.

    Couple of questions.

    Is it possible that it auto renewed?

    If not why not?

    Did you opt out? Was it rejected payment? Was there pre existing medical?

    If the third option were you told that it wouldn't auto renew due to medical screening?

    Had it auto renewed previously?

    Could chance ringing the insurance company and query why it didn't auto renew if you were not told that it wouldn't and had previously in particular.


  • Options
    #64
    Guffy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭Guffy


    Bananaleaf wrote: »
    Two years ago, myself and the OP were in the states. He had a minor procedure booked in hospital here in Ireland that would be happening upon his return. A scan to investigate some abdominal pain.

    We had 'Gold' level travel insurance with 123.ie. Apparently the best you can get. One evening, a week into a 2 week trip, he started to feel unwell. He panicked, thinking it might have been more serious than it eventually turned out to be and we made the very quick decision to get an emergency flight home and then request that the scan be done privately here in Ireland the next day.

    It all turned out to be nothing and he's as fit as a fiddle, but at the time we had just gotten our deposit for our mortgage together and we were too worried that some loophole would mean that the insurance company wouldnt have to pay out and we would lose our entire mortgage deposit and possibly more.

    Couldn't claim the emergency flight change costs from insurance, understandably, as there turned out to be no reason to warrant the emergency flight, but at the time we didn't give a damn about that anyway, we were just relieved that he was ok.

    OP - try not to panic. Hopefully everything will be okay.

    Your husband was awaiting a scan or further investigation so even if it was serious cover could have been excluded anyway.

    You really should be contacting the emergency helpline before making any serious changes to travel plans or incurring any significant expense


  • Options
    #65
    cena
    Registered Users Posts: 10,022 ✭✭✭✭cena


    Guffy wrote: »
    Couple of questions.

    Is it possible that it auto renewed?

    If not why not?

    Did you opt out? Was it rejected payment? Was there pre existing medical?

    If the third option were you told that it wouldn't auto renew due to medical screening?

    Had it auto renewed previously?

    Could chance ringing the insurance company and query why it didn't auto renew if you were not told that it wouldn't and had previously in particular.

    It was a single trip insurance we got. As we only go away every two years. She going this time an unexpected trip and her aunt has very unwell lately


  • Options
    #66
    él statutorio
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭él statutorio


    cena wrote: »
    Just say if the bill wasn't paid and she returns to the states. What kind of trouble could she get into?

    Mandatory "I am not a lawyer" statement.

    Hard to say, it's unlikely they'd pursue her for the bill as they know they can't enforce payment. They might push it to a debt collection agency, but again, no power to collect. I can't see her being arrested when she lands in a US airport for example.

    I've lived in the US for over 4 years (worked in a large hospital for 3 of them so I have some familiarity with this). If this was my mam, I'd have her plead inability to pay the full amount. Make them an offer and if they accept, job done. If they refuse, I'd leave it at that.

    Hospitals write off cases like this every day. I can only speak for the place I worked at where a lot of illegal immigrant women had their babies. They got the same level of care as my wife did, the bill for it averages at about $10k per baby. The hospital knows that these girls are never going to be able to pay but they treat them anyway. A bill is sent out to an address that may or may not exist and that's as far as it ever goes.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭dennyk


    cena wrote: »
    Just say if the bill wasn't paid and she returns to the states. What kind of trouble could she get into?

    Depends on a lot of factors. Does she own any assets (bank or other financial accounts, property, etc.) in the US? If so, they could possibly be garnished to pay a judgement against her for failure to pay a debt.

    Were any of her US relatives co-signers for her medical bills? If any of them signed *anything* at the hospital without reading it carefully, it's possible they may have agreed to take responsibility for the payment of her bills if she can't or won't pay herself, in which case the hospital (or a debt collector who purchases the debt) could come after them for the amount owed. Even if they are not responsible, if some unscrupulous debt collector gets hold of their information, they may find themselves being harassed or might even be tricked into taking responsibility for the debt.

    Medical debt in the US is a civil matter, not criminal, so she cannot be arrested or go to jail over unpaid medical bills (unless there was compelling evidence that she deliberately committed fraud, or she knowingly tried to pay with a bad cheque, or she otherwise committed some actual crime in the process), and it would most likely not affect her ability to enter the US. However, if she were to ever move to the US or otherwise wanted to establish a financial foothold there, the negative impact from unpaid debts on her credit record could make that difficult.

    It would also be possible for the hospital or debt collector to pursue her legally in Ireland, if they wanted to, though it likely wouldn't be cost-effective to do so over a relatively small (~$10k) debt, so that's very unlikely to happen.


  • Options
    #68
    cena
    Registered Users Posts: 10,022 ✭✭✭✭cena


    dennyk wrote: »
    Depends on a lot of factors. Does she own any assets (bank or other financial accounts, property, etc.) in the US? If so, they could possibly be garnished to pay a judgement against her for failure to pay a debt.

    Were any of her US relatives co-signers for her medical bills? If any of them signed *anything* at the hospital without reading it carefully, it's possible they may have agreed to take responsibility for the payment of her bills if she can't or won't pay herself, in which case the hospital (or a debt collector who purchases the debt) could come after them for the amount owed. Even if they are not responsible, if some unscrupulous debt collector gets hold of their information, they may find themselves being harassed or might even be tricked into taking responsibility for the debt.

    Medical debt in the US is a civil matter, not criminal, so she cannot be arrested or go to jail over unpaid medical bills (unless there was compelling evidence that she deliberately committed fraud, or she knowingly tried to pay with a bad cheque, or she otherwise committed some actual crime in the process), and it would most likely not affect her ability to enter the US. However, if she were to ever move to the US or otherwise wanted to establish a financial foothold there, the negative impact from unpaid debts on her credit record could make that difficult.

    It would also be possible for the hospital or debt collector to pursue her legally in Ireland, if they wanted to, though it likely wouldn't be cost-effective to do so over a relatively small (~$10k) debt, so that's very unlikely to happen.
    The cousin that was with her does not have much in assets. Does not own a house


  • Options
    #69
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,506 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    cena wrote: »
    Someone called one for her. As it happened outside the m&m store in new york

    Oh no. NYC doctors and hospitals. Expensive even by US standards. Can she prove US residency somehow? Might be able to get on Obamacare if so - preexisting conditions like broken fingers might be covered.


  • Options
    #70
    cena
    Registered Users Posts: 10,022 ✭✭✭✭cena


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Oh no. NYC doctors and hospitals. Expensive even by US standards. Can she prove US residency somehow? Might be able to get on Obamacare if so - preexisting conditions like broken fingers might be covered.

    she does not live in the states


  • Options
    #71
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,506 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    cena wrote: »
    she does not live in the states

    I'd suggest getting a lawyer as it was an accident and if it happened outside a store, like she fell and broke her hand, the lawyer could go after the store's owner.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    cena
    Registered Users Posts: 10,022 ✭✭✭✭cena


    Igotadose wrote: »
    I'd suggest getting a lawyer as it was an accident and if it happened outside a store, like she fell and broke her hand, the lawyer could go after the store's owner.

    I don't think we want to go against a big company like M&M


  • Options
    #73
    shamrock55
    Registered Users Posts: 7,209 ✭✭✭shamrock55


    Maybe she fell on a handful of loose m&ms outside the store= sue the pants off them, a pack of m&ms might go up a few cent for the rest of us but shur what harm


  • Options
    #74
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭dennyk


    cena wrote: »
    The cousin that was with her does not have much in assets. Does not own a house

    If her cousin did sign something taking responsibility for the bills, a lack of assets doesn't mean he'd be safe; if he were sued and a judgement was entered against him, his wages and any bank accounts he has could be garnished to pay the amount owed. Even if it didn't end up going to court, it would most likely end up on his credit report as a default, which would make it very difficult for him to secure any kind of loan or credit himself for the next several years.


  • Options
    #75
    Squatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    Tombo2001 wrote: »

    So that gives people carte blanche to put the boot in?

    No, it doesnt.


    Yes it does.


  • Options
    #76
    NSAman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,431 ✭✭✭NSAman


    As others have said, there is “discretion” in many hospitals for those without insurance in the states.

    Before I fully moved, I had an episode which led to going into a&e in a hospital there. No insurance...cost was 160 dollars. They even got the drugs charges down from 290 to 80.

    Roll on two years, same issue with insurance .. cost 5400 dollars, same treatment.

    You can organize and barter with the hospital. It WILL reduce the costs.


  • Options
    #77
    Jewelers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭Jewelers


    cena wrote: »
    I don't think we want to go against a big company like M&M

    why not ?


  • Options
    #78
    cena
    Registered Users Posts: 10,022 ✭✭✭✭cena


    Jewelers wrote: »
    why not ?

    Who is going to pay the lawyer if the isn't won


  • Options
    #79
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    PM me nudes wrote: »
    OP don't forget that hospitals in the US are more often than not willing to be paid a sum that is substantially less than the bill they give when it is being settled away from insurance, so don't be afraid to "make an offer" when the bill is received.

    This is very true, a friend of mine did it when she was injured while "undocumented". She ended up having to pay less than half of the original bill.


  • Options
    #80
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Insurance would be the first thing id buy going to the US. Look forward to seeing the post on the bill for this. The irish medical card system never looked so good.


  • Options
    #81
    TCM
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭TCM


    Deleted User wrote:
    My mother (60s at the time) took ill (breathing related) in a NYC hotel, they called for an ambulance, she was taken to hospital, examined etc, kept for one night. The bill she received was 23k + some change, that nearly gave her a heart related condition, anyhow, she had insurance but they refused to pay the bill as they were not the initial contact.They said she or whomever was dealing with the situation should have used the contact info that came with her policy and the people on the other end of that phone would of organised assistance for her. That is fair enough I guess if you are in a position to call them first, not much use if you are unable to. Fortunately we have some friends who ran a travel business and they were able to settle through their company insurance, I don't know how much they settled for but the mammy got a lucky break that time. I will be amazed if the bill is less than 10k. Not much help to you I know.I hope everything works out ok.


    If a person (who had insurance) had a coronary and was unconscious how would he/she be able to contact there insurer? You're senario is strange indeed.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,501 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    shamrock55 wrote: »
    Maybe she fell on a handful of loose m&ms outside the store= sue the pants off them, a pack of m&ms might go up a few cent for the rest of us but shur what harm

    Apparently, you can only sue if they are peanut m&ms, or the caramel m&ms. Something to do with nut allergies and the stickyness of caramel.


  • Options
    #83
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,792 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    cena wrote: »
    I don't think we want to go against a big company like M&M

    It’s no big deal. This is how it works there.

    You get a lawyer and make a deposition. If there is liability the large company will want to settle. The lawyer will negotiate with the hospital and the large company to get to something workable and to cover the lawyer’s own fee. If the injured party waives her right to compensation for pain and suffering so that it is just about the hospital bill, it will make it much easier.

    I have personal experience with a relative doing exactly this after an accident. It was on a bus so maybe the liability was clearer. But this is a serious option.

    Did your mother file an accident report in the store? If not, it is important to do so now.


  • Options
    #84
    cena
    Registered Users Posts: 10,022 ✭✭✭✭cena


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    It’s no big deal. This is how it works there.

    You get a lawyer and make a deposition. If there is liability the large company will want to settle. The lawyer will negotiate with the hospital and the large company to get to something workable and to cover the lawyer’s own fee. If the injured party waives her right to compensation for pain and suffering so that it is just about the hospital bill, it will make it much easier.

    I have personal experience with a relative doing exactly this after an accident. It was on a bus so maybe the liability was clearer. But this is a serious option.

    Did your mother file an accident report in the store? If not, it is important to do so now.

    it was outside the store not inside


  • Options
    #85
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,792 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    In NYC, the store may be liable nonetheless.

    https://www.godoskygentile.com/Premises-Liability/Sidewalk-Injuries.shtml (I do not know anything about this firm, but they give a view on the law here.)


  • Options
    #86
    Jewelers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭Jewelers


    cena wrote: »
    Who is going to pay the lawyer if the isn't won

    2 broken fingers what happened ?


  • Options
    #87
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,792 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    cena wrote: »
    Who is going to pay the lawyer if the isn't won

    I would expect personal injuries work to be done on what they call a 'contingency fee' and on what we would call a no-foal-no-fee basis, i.e., if you don't win, you don't pay anything. They'll tell you pretty quick if your case is not worth pursuing as a result.

    The costs do not follow the cause in the US generally speaking. That is, if you lose, you won't end up paying the other side's costs.

    Whether you have a claim obviously depends on the facts of the case and you really do need professional advice.


  • Options
    #88
    M5
    Registered Users Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    Number of things, hospitals in the US have to treat you. Asking for payment prior to treatment is a thing of the past.

    I lived there for 2 years and a friend had a similar experience when visiting. Food poisoning. Drip and overnight 7k bill from the hospital.

    In that case you have 3 options, pay up, dont pay and be unable to return to US or settle. Most hospitals will settle once you explain that you are non resident. You could use the if you dont settle i wont pay anything strategy.

    My friend settled for $700 in the end


  • Options
    #89
    Wesser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Wesser


    Never ceases to amaze me those who are deservant of medical cards are abke6 to afford 2 trips to the states in a year.....


  • Options
    #90
    BabysCoffee
    Registered Users Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭BabysCoffee


    My friend in the US broke her leg when she fell on the street. She is a US citizen in a low paying job.

    Someone called an ambulance for her. She had to fight for her insurance to pay the $5000 for it.

    She now advises anyone to call a cab if they ever find themselves in the same situation.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    cena
    Registered Users Posts: 10,022 ✭✭✭✭cena


    Wesser wrote: »
    Never ceases to amaze me those who are deservant of medical cards are abke6 to afford 2 trips to the states in a year.....

    Excuse me. Her 3 sons pay for to go.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement