Smart wall light-switch?

degsie

Apologies if this has been answered before, had a search to no avail. Is it possible to get a smart light-switch to directly replace a bog standard light-switch? By smart I mean turn/off via app or voice control etc.

Ethereal Cereal

Yea, ikea have a great range of smart lighting. I have the regular dimmer set, but they have a smart a smart set as well.
The bulbs and controllers are not that expensive, its all a very affordable option.

https://www.ikea.com/ie/en/products/lighting/smart-lighting/

degsie

Thinking more in terms of swapping out one of these....


....for a smart one.

bk

It is a difficult and complicated topic.

Basically most smart light switches require Neutral at the light switch, but traditionally most Irish homes didn't have Neutral at the light switches. Though newer homes are tending to have it now. There are a small few options that will work without Neutral, but far less options.

So first you need to find out if you have Neutral or not at your light switches. And you need to check every switch, in my home, some switches do and others don't. Whether you have Neutral guides which options you might look at.

The other issue is that some smart switches usually require extra space (for the electronics) behind the switch. You may or may not have that space.

Ethereal Cereal

Yea, bk explains it better above, I don't know the technicals of it, but....

I have all switches like you posted in my house with GU10 bulbs. Some one in work got a dimmer switch fitted but it cost hundreds and required chasing to be done on the wall possibly because of what bk specifies above.

What I done was replace all my GU10 bulbs in the sitting room with the ikea range bulbs I listed above. I then bought this dimmer control

https://www.ikea.com/ie/en/products/lighting/smart-lighting/trådfri-dimming-kit-white-spectrum-grey-white-art-70338932/

and "stuck" it to the wall beside the on off switch. I now have an on/off and a dimmer control beside each other.

IMO its the simplest, most cost effective method of installing dimmer lighting.

wexfordman2

degsie wrote: »

Apologies if this has been answered before, had a search to no avail. Is it possible to get a smart light-switch to directly replace a bog standard light-switch? By smart I mean turn/off via app or voice control etc.

As the other two posters highlighted, you could go the smart bulb route and use a seperate switch to.do your on/off.control.

Of you want a direct replacement of a light switch, there are also a good number of options.

The neutral issue which bk highlighted does need to be determined first, but there are a number of options irrespective that can fit behind a standard wall switch, which could then be replaced by a .momentary type wall switch giving the look and feel of a standard wall switch, avoiding the need for a seperate smart bulb controlled light switch.

Look at Fibaro modules for an example, but there also a few options also such as so off l8ghtwave rf etc, the caveat with these is that they are expensive and don't always provide status updates (ie. Some.of them don't update your system that the light has been turned in or off manually)

Personally, o would look at fibaro type.solution as it gives a direct like for like replacement and people will and can continue to use it just like a normal light switch with no limitations. You also.dint need to.replace every light bulb in this scenario, although if you dont have a neutral, then the modules that dont require neutral are generally.dimmer modules, so you would need to.ensure your standard bulbs are dimmable.

bk

wexfordman2 suggestion of Fibaro is a very good one, but do remember that they require a good bit of space behind your switch, so make sure you have deep backboxes or can increase the space if not.

I ended up doing much the same as Ethereal Cereal, though with Hue. I replaced all my bulbs with Philips Hue smart bulbs, covered my light switches and use Hue light switch and other control methods instead.

I think when people first start thinking about Home Automation, they first think of replacing the light switch, as it seems like a good starting place. But once you get into it and learn more about it, you realise that smart switches are potentially difficult to set up, potentially expensive and you end up with relatively limited control (just on/off and maybe dimming). Most people end up going for smart bulbs instead as they are much easier to set up (literally just screwing in a bulb) and you end up with lots of great extra features (white ambiance, colour, etc.).

I think where smart switches are particularly useful is where you have something like 10 or more bulbs off one switch. Then obviously making all those smart bulbs is cost prohibitive and the cost factor favours the smart switch. But if you have just a few bulbs off a switch, then I'd argue that smart bulbs are the way to go.

Of course the ultimate setup, is something like wexfordman2 setup with data wired "smart" switches and smart bulbs, but that is costly and ideally suited to new build/major renovation.

Daveq

Lightwave RF? I've built up the collection in bits over the last while. It's not cheap to do but neither is to replace a load of bulbs if there is a few on the same circuit. So the switches can balance out the price. You will need the hub too.

Phibsboro

I've been looking at this area as I plan out a house refurb. As bk says, the reality is that putting the smarts in the bulb rather than the switch is probably where you are going to end up. You get more colour/spectrum options and individual control over how the bulbs light up. Having said that, there may still be a place for smart swtiches, for example if you had a big run of GU10's in a hallway, where colour/spectrum isn't important and the price saving from putting normal bulbs in might be significant. Having read around this, my gut feel is that I wouldn't trust a non neutral solution as by definition they are keeping the whole circuit live even you think the light is switched off. That just seems to be asking for trouble down the line. The other issue is actually getting proper EU certified stuff, a lot of forums are discussing stuff coming from China that isn't properly certified. If you are going to stick something in a small wall enclosure you'd want to be pretty certain it isn't going to overheat!

Having said all that, one solution I did come across that caught my eye in terms of a non neutral wired house was to put a wifi switch up in ceiling. Something like the Shelly 1 (https://shelly.cloud/product/shelly-1-open-source/?attribute_pack=4+Pack+Shelly+1+Open+Source) can be wired into the lighting circuit with the neutral up in the ceiling. For a single bulb you can actually do this right from the ceiling rose. For a run of GU10's, I'm not so sure how it would be wired, if at all? So for 10e you get something that would integrate your light into a HA system and still allow you to have a normal switch on the other end. But obviously if you are only doing it for one light (via a ceiling rose say), you'd be better off just biting the bullet and getting a smart bulb. Overall, every time I think I might have something that is worth using it just seems to make much more sense to pay a little extra and put in smart bulbs.

Daveq

I should have added Lightwave RF doesn't need a neutral.
It gets around this by not having a full on off. There is a tiny trickle to through the switch to power the reciever, so you will need dimmable bulbs. Having a smart on off would have the same trickle but it would stop at the switch via the neutral wire instead of travelling through to the bulb.

eusap

I covered all my traditional light switches with the Samotech covers and used the Hue Switch, yes it is a bit chunky but too be honest we rarely use them (more for guests) as there are routines setup to turn on off lights/SIRI/Google Home so we rarely use physical switch.

I did think about putting blank plates over switch and sticking the Hue switch to it but it didnt look as nice. Maybe a nice project for somebody with a 3d printer

Phibsboro

eusap wrote: »

I covered all my traditional light switches with the Samotech covers and used the Hue Switch, yes it is a bit chunky but too be honest we rarely use them (more for guests) as there are routines setup to turn on off lights/SIRI/Google Home so we rarely use physical switch.

I did think about putting blank plates over switch and sticking the Hue switch to it but it didnt look as nice. Maybe a nice project for somebody with a 3d printer

I think that point re visitors is a great one. The reality is that lighting is moving towards being switchless as HA allows you to do occupancy sensing and set the lighting accordingly. That combined with lighting being integrated into activity related "scenes" or routines ("watch TV" turns on the tv and dims your lights for example), means you will be unlikely to hit a switch at all.

In that vein, I am moving towards having switches that allow basic on/off and possibly some scene selection, combined with handheld dimmers for finer control. The swtiches are mainly for guests. I am looking at these Xiaomi ones (https://www.gearbest.com/alarm-systems/pp_610095.html?wid=1433363). So I would tape up the wires in the wall swtich box and put that switch over the box, it screws on like a normal switch front. Then maybe an IKEA Tradfri round dimmer on the coffee table or bedside locker for finer control. I am using my own zigbee hub so I can mix and match elements (for example, I currently have that Xiaomi double switch controlling a Tradfri bulb on one side and a Hue bulb on the other).

jiggins

What about one of these Aurora Aone smart rotary dimmers?
My electrician has recommended the brand and they seem like a visitor friendly and attractive alternative. They do require a hub though and aren't cheap at approx €60 per switch.
They work just like a regular rotary dimmer if the internet fails/hub malfunctions and can be integrated with Amazon Echo/Google Home.

I only want smart dimming but have lots of bulbs to control so I'm thinking of using the dimmer module in my existing switches.

What do ye think of these as a set up? Any pitfalls I'm missing?

https://auroralighting.com/gb/ProductAone?page=1&category=AOne%E2%84%A2%20Control^AOne%E2%84%A2%20Sense

Dont be at yourself

I replaced most of mine with Sonoff switches (requires a neutral at the switch). They work with Alexa and overall do what they're supposed to. A few issues:

- replacing every light switch was more than my Eir router could handle. Had to invest in a Google Home.
- when the router went down, all light switches flash with a bright blue LED -- not something I'd want when trying to sleep!
- they don't support one light controlled by two switches (eg landing light), but you can work around that with scenes or IFTTT
- touch sensitivity is fine on one-gang switches, where you can ring your finger along pretty much the whole switch to turn on/off. For two-door and three-gang switches, the contact area is much smaller, and because there's no physical button, you do need to look at the switch (or just Alexa).
- doesn't support dimming, though I picked up a dimmer from another brand with a similar design that also integrates with Alexa.

wexfordman2

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I replaced most of mine with Sonoff switches (requires a neutral at the switch). They work with Alexa and overall do what they're supposed to. A few issues:

- replacing every light switch was more than my Eir router could handle. Had to invest in a Google Home.
- when the router went down, all light switches flash with a bright blue LED -- not something I'd want when trying to sleep!
- they don't support one light controlled by two switches (eg landing light), but you can work around that with scenes or IFTTT
- touch sensitivity is fine on one-gang switches, where you can ring your finger along pretty much the whole switch to turn on/off. For two-door and three-gang switches, the contact area is much smaller, and because there's no physical button, you do need to look at the switch (or just Alexa).
- doesn't support dimming, though I picked up a dimmer from another brand with a similar design that also integrates with Alexa.

Take a look at vesternet.com they have loads of options for smart switches zigbee and z wave that are direct replacements for standard wall switches that work with or without a neutral and explain the options for 2 wire or 3 wire (neutral) set ups.

Phibsboro

jiggins wrote: »

What about one of these Aurora Aone smart rotary dimmers?
My electrician has recommended the brand and they seem like a visitor friendly and attractive alternative. They do require a hub though and aren't cheap at approx €60 per switch.
They work just like a regular rotary dimmer if the internet fails/hub malfunctions and can be integrated with Amazon Echo/Google Home.

I only want smart dimming but have lots of bulbs to control so I'm thinking of using the dimmer module in my existing switches.

What do ye think of these as a set up? Any pitfalls I'm missing?

https://auroralighting.com/gb/ProductAone?page=1&category=AOne%E2%84%A2%20Control^AOne%E2%84%A2%20Sense

They certainly seem to fit the bill. My two concerns would be price (I am seeing GBP130 online, where are you seeing 60e?) and compatibility - as you say it may well be that they will only work with their hub.

wexfordman2

Phibsboro wrote: »

They certainly seem to fit the bill. My two concerns would be price (I am seeing GBP130 online, where are you seeing 60e?) and compatibility - as you say it may well be that they will only work with their hub.

There are in wall options that cost around €,30 per circuit, fibaro modules .these would be 2 channel (2 circuits) in the one module for example.

Zigbee or zwave should work with a snartthings hub, or lots of other options such as openhab.

Phibsboro

wexfordman2 wrote: »

There are in wall options that cost around €,30 per circuit, fibaro modules .these would be 2 channel (2 circuits) in the one module for example.

Zigbee or zwave should work with a snartthings hub, or lots of other options such as openhab.

The particular dimmer linked, the Aurora Aone zigbee, isn't mentioned in the usual forums so it might be a pain to get working (I wouldn't underestimate how manufacturers can butcher the zigbee standard when they release products). I would definitely be interested in a 30eur zigbee wired dimmer, if that is what you mean re fibaro? What exact product(s) would I need to get a wall mounted, wired, zigbee dimmer from fibaro?

jiggins

Phibsboro wrote: »

They certainly seem to fit the bill. My two concerns would be price (I am seeing GBP130 online, where are you seeing 60e?) and compatibility - as you say it may well be that they will only work with their hub.

About €60 in my local electrical suppliers - Flaherty Markets Castlebar. I'd say any suppliers dealing with Aurora can get them.

The smart features only work with the hub, but if the hub/internet fails they still work just like a normal rotary dimmer. This is a big plus for me....

wexfordman2

Phibsboro wrote: »

The particular dimmer linked, the Aurora Aone zigbee, isn't mentioned in the usual forums so it might be a pain to get working (I wouldn't underestimate how manufacturers can butcher the zigbee standard when they release products). I would definitely be interested in a 30eur zigbee wired dimmer, if that is what you mean re fibaro? What exact product(s) would I need to get a wall mounted, wired, zigbee dimmer from fibaro?

https://www.vesternet.com/fibaro-module-mix-match-10-pack-discount

With no neutral, you have to go for dimmer.modules, 10 pack cost is about 43stg each.

If you have a neutral you can get 2 chan fibaro modules for about 50stg, which is roughly 30 euro per xhannel/ circuit. Have a browse around the website, there is a load.of options there.

Edit:.dimmer modules generally have a min load requirement, so if your dimming circuit is less than I think 20w, then you need an adapter to.sit in line with the bulb.

Phibsboro

wexfordman2 wrote: »

https://www.vesternet.com/fibaro-module-mix-match-10-pack-discount

With no neutral, you have to go for dimmer.modules, 10 pack cost is about 43stg each.

If you have a neutral you can get 2 chan fibaro modules for about 50stg, which is roughly 30 euro per xhannel/ circuit. Have a browse around the website, there is a load.of options there.

Edit:.dimmer modules generally have a min load requirement, so if your dimming circuit is less than I think 20w, then you need an adapter to.sit in line with the bulb.

They are actually all z-wave products as far as I can see. But that isn't necessarily the end of the world, I could get a z-wave stick to go with my zigbee stick. What I don't understand is how to actually get a dimmer switch to attach to those dimmer modules? Is it actually possible for the physical switch to dim, like I assume the aurora Aone linked earlier is doing?

wexfordman2

Phibsboro wrote: »

They are actually all z-wave products as far as I can see. But that isn't necessarily the end of the world, I could get a z-wave stick to go with my zigbee stick. What I don't understand is how to actually get a dimmer switch to attach to those dimmer modules? Is it actually possible for the physical switch to dim, like I assume the aurora Aone linked earlier is doing?

Yes, they are z wave, and they should work.with Samsung smartthings hub for example


The connect up to a standard.or momentary.wall.switch, so as.you press the.momentsry button, the longer you press it,.the light begins to cycle.from.dim.to.bright or.vice verse.until.you release it.

Sorry.for all the ... thick thumbs, small space bar

bk

Some comments in the Smart Things forum about Aurora Aone:

https://community.smartthings.com/t/some-aurora-aone-zigbee-devices-added-to-official-list-uk-for-now/160543/7

paulbok

Xiaomi have an interesting new product out, a smart dimmer switch for their Yeelights.
Plenty of control for those lights.
Wired and wireless versions available.

Switch powered from off existing wiring(neutral required) with connection to the light by bluetooth, so will only suit the Yeelights/ Xiaomi environment.

bk

paulbok wrote: »

Switch powered from off existing wiring(neutral required) with connection to the light by bluetooth, so will only suit the Yeelights/ Xiaomi environment.

Actually it looks like it does not require Neutral.

Stoner

Daveq wrote:

I should have added Lightwave RF doesn't need a neutral. It gets around this by not having a full on off. There is a tiny trickle to through the switch to power the reciever, so you will need dimmable bulbs. Having a smart on off would have the same trickle but it would stop at the switch via the neutral wire instead of travelling through to the bulb.

Correct, no neutral needed

I've struggled with lightswitches
What lamps do you use.
Sockets, relays, TRVs , energy meters are all great