Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

IrishPlayer

Just finished off season 2 of Knight Rider

Season 2 Episode 24 Big Iron

Rolex GMT-Master 16753 worn by the character Frank Sanderson played by Stuart Whitman

Cyclingtourist

Another top class video from Oisín over at TTWC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDFYlrcoFZ4

Wibbs

The prices really show the diff between then and now. Concorde was undergoing test flights in 69/70. The average US wage was around 500 dollars a month. So the GMT Master in steel was half a months wages and in 18kt gold was under three months wages. Even if we doubled the price because of changes in buying power or any other factors, it would be still around one months or four and half months average wage respectively.

You see those Antique Roadshows and the like with usually ordinary enough lads with ordinary enough jobs showing up with Rolexes from the 60's and 70's and people ohh and aah at the prices they paid, which sound like not a lot, but were actually a chunk of change back then, the price of a two week package holiday for a family anyway. Still they weren't close to the new prices today. Now exceptions can be made for those sold through US military PX's as they were discounted by around 25% IIRC and a single bloke with bed and board paid for has a fair bit of disposable.

In Ireland today the average annual wage(IIRC) is 50,000(taking home what 35 odd?). So just over 4000 a month gross. We can ignore gold because it's gone up and down like a whoer's knickers and is around 1500 quid per ounce at the moment. It was I'd imagine a lot less in 1970. However you can't get a GMT in steel(Swedish or otherwise) for 2000, or 4000. What are they now new, if you can get one, around 10,000? So roughly five times the price. Now of course quality has gone up of course, but fivefold or more? Omega have increased about the same across their flagship models. Zenith ditto.

Wibbs

Cyclingtourist wrote: »

Another top class video from Oisín over at TTWC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDFYlrcoFZ4

It's so weird to see Venice so empty.

Gavin1

Wibbs wrote: »

That particular OysterQuartz is one you really don't see very often at all. In my humble, though it doesn't get the love because of the battery bit, the OysterQuartz is one of the finest designed and executed movements Rolex have ever made in their history. It was certainly far superior in fit and finish compared to their contemporary movements and in the very top tier of quartz movements ever made.

I love these. I remember these from my first Rolex brochure from Weirs in the Ilac Centre around 1992.

Then I found one in 2009, the 17000, that was meant to be mint. It was a P-serial, so one of the last to be sold.

The issue with these is that the sharp angles are easily removed and the case is very unforgiving when badly polished and they look brutal.

The previous owner get this polished and it was badly done. This got to the point where I sent it off and got a new case and crystal at Rolex. It came back in great shape and now it is one of my favorites!!

They where very much sleeper Rolexes and the black sheep of the brand. There was rumours that it was designed by Gerald Genta. Also the production numbers were, again, rumoured to be about 25K during its production. This has to make it one of the rarest Rolexes out there.

Time

Gavin1 wrote: »

I love these. I remember these from my first Rolex brochure from Weirs in the Ilac Centre around 1992.

Then I found one in 2009, the 17000, that was meant to be mint. It was a P-serial, so one of the last to be sold.

The issue with these is that the sharp angles are easily removed and the case is very unforgiving when badly polished and they look brutal.

The previous owner get this polished and it was badly done. This got to the point where I sent it off and got a new case and crystal at Rolex. It came back in great shape and now it is one of my favorites!!

They where very much sleeper Rolexes and the black sheep of the brand. There was rumours that it was designed by Gerald Genta. Also the production numbers were, again, rumoured to be about 25K during its production. This has to make it one of the rarest Rolexes out there.

Theres a few guys who specialise in restoration who can add steel back into the case and make them as good as new.

https://www.instagram.com/lapinist_watchrestoration/?hl=en - This guy does absolutely amazing work, theres another guy in Austria i know of too thats just as good.

Wibbs

Time wrote: »

Theres a few guys who specialise in restoration who can add steel back into the case and make them as good as new.

https://www.instagram.com/lapinist_watchrestoration/?hl=en - This guy does absolutely amazing work, theres another guy in Austria i know of too thats just as good.

Wow. That's impressive alright. There was a guy on watchuseek IIRC who did that kinda thing as a hobby/sideline and his results were nothing short of gobsmacking. He was a Seiko guy too. I wonder if it's the same bloke?

Time

Wibbs wrote: »

Wow. That's impressive alright. There was a guy on watchuseek IIRC who did that kinda thing as a hobby/sideline and his results were nothing short of gobsmacking. He was a Seiko guy too. I wonder if it's the same bloke?

Could be, this guy also works with Gold which i imagine is much much harder - https://instagram.com/watchcaserestorations?igshid=7p5a5e5vjmsi

Again amazing results. Just goes to show that polishing on SS isn't really a big deal anymore.

Thirdfox

Might not be a big deal but I believe lasering steel back on is still rather expensive?

Why I want to move some people to tungsten - no scratches for life (unless you're playing with diamonds).

Wibbs

Tungsten is heavy mind you. Real boat anchor stuff, though some like that too. Titanium if treated to a hardened carbide layer is daftly tough and also lightweight. If you look at Longines and IWV Ti cased watches from the 1980's when it was briefly a thing, the cases and bracelets nearly always look brand new. A very much not babied example from 84.



Latterly I've read that titanium cases can be pretty delicate. Have manufacturers changed something in the process maybe?

Lorddrakul

I think a lot of people confuse strength and hardness when it comes to titanium.

Pure titanium is, gram for gram, stronger than steel, but it is not unless you get an alloy like with iridium, that you get super hardness.

Thirdfox

Lorddrakul wrote: »

I think a lot of people confuse strength and hardness when it comes to titanium.

Pure titanium is, gram for gram, stronger than steel, but it is not unless you get an alloy like with iridium, that you get super hardness.

It's a lovely material but exactly like LD says the strength doesn't come in the form of hardness (good for building airplanes, spaceships etc.)

Tungsten in the carbide form is hard - like moh 9.5 hard - but that comes at the expense of flexibility - it will shatter a lot easier and can be compared to ceramics - almost impossible to scratch, but just like with a ceramic case has to avoid being dropped. Ceramic is maybe 9(?) on the mohs scale, very light, very hard but very expensive to work with. Tungsten is better on the expense front.

Heavy like Wibbs said - almost as heavy as gold, though tungsten carbide in jewellery "steel" form is less dense. In its pure form it's used as the rotors for Sólás' microrotors (instead of 24k gold or platinum) - also used as tank ammunition (for countries that don't use depleted uranium) - I'm not looking to build a watch from depleted uranium I can guarantee

Wibbs

Thirdfox wrote: »

I'm not looking to build a watch from depleted uranium I can guarantee

Want!

Thirdfox

Wibbs wrote: »

Want!

Ah Wibbs you can look into a kickstarter for that - I can guarantee you there would be nutters...ahem *enthusiastics* who would support something like that

Time

Thirdfox wrote: »

Might not be a big deal but I believe lasering steel back on is still rather expensive?

Why I want to move some people to tungsten - no scratches for life (unless you're playing with diamonds).

You're our resident manufacturer, is it a feasible thing to do? Or would it be impractical technically/financially

Wibbs

Time wrote: »

You're our resident manufacturer

Damn straight.

Thirdfox

Time wrote: »

You're our resident manufacturer, is it a feasible thing to do? Or would it be impractical technically/financially

Oh very feasible but it certainly isn't "cheap" - I was browsing through forums and saw people mention around $500 for one gouge to be fixed - so depends on how trashed your case is (in which case an entirely new case for an in production model would make sense depending on what the case is). For vintage there's lots of discussion on what should be disclosed as condition/polish/lack of polishing can affect price significiantly.

https://www.rolliworks.com/post/904l-laser-welding-case-repair-126600-deep-sea-dweller

This company came up a few times in my search for laser welding - that's an impressive job they did on the dssd - but I am pretty sure that didn't just cost 500 dollars (they do laser welding for gold, silver, 904L steel, 316L steel too).

I wouldn't have an issue getting a deep/multiple gouges fixed via laser welding for special pieces.

Time

Thirdfox wrote: »

Oh very feasible but it certainly isn't "cheap" - I was browsing through forums and saw people mention around $500 for one gouge to be fixed - so depends on how trashed your case is (in which case an entirely new case for an in production model would make sense depending on what the case is). For vintage there's lots of discussion on what should be disclosed as condition/polish/lack of polishing can affect price significiantly.


https://www.rolliworks.com/post/904l-laser-welding-case-repair-126600-deep-sea-dweller

This company came up a few times in my search for laser welding - that's an impressive job they did on the dssd - but I am pretty sure that didn't just cost 500 dollars (they do laser welding for gold, silver, 904L steel, 316L steel too).

I wouldn't have an issue getting a deep/multiple gouges fixed via laser welding for special pieces.

I guess if you’ve spent 20k plus on a watch 1-2k for it to be made brand new again is a good value proposition

Wibbs

Very true T. And for something rare, or of sentimental value too. Even if it's not as valuable in direct monetary terms. As for the vintage "authenticity" part, I'd personally not be particularly precious about it, though I know many would baulk at such things. My take is that unless it's NOS, new in box found in a timewarp, then it already has a history to it and rejuvenation would be part of that history. So long as it's disclosed of course.

Thirdfox

https://www.rolliworks.com/post/rolexor-93153-oyster-repair-extreme-edition

Really impressive bracelet stretch reworking too here - and "only" $1000 (compared to the almost $5k Rolex wanted for a new bracelet).

Fitz II

Laser Welding is super easy and the equipment is cheap enough. I have done a bit and it is straightforward and does not heat the workpiece that much. Soldering is much much harder.

banie01

Thirdfox wrote: »

https://www.rolliworks.com/post/rolexor-93153-oyster-repair-extreme-edition

Really impressive bracelet stretch reworking too here - and "only" $1000 (compared to the almost $5k Rolex wanted for a new bracelet).

That's very impressive work!
Laser welding really is incredible, I was reading some technical papers recently on its use in aviation and shipbuilding.

It's use offers weightsaving akin to the original large scale introduction of welding Vs rivets back in the 20 in shipbuilding with even higher again tensile strength.

banie01

Came across this gem over on Reddit!
There are so many of the ultra high brands I've never even heard of!
Time to start googling some of them and trying to get myself a higher class of friend



*Edit* lots missing from this list too of course

banie01

banie01 wrote: »

Came across this gem over on Reddit!


*Edit* lots missing from this list too of course

*laughs in mid-range-Seiko*


Edit I'm a fanboy and I sleep easy.

Creamy Goodness

Hublot above the likes of Rolex, Arnold & son, Zenith and Omega.

:eek:

Fitz II

banie01 wrote: »

Came across this gem over on Reddit!
There are so many of the ultra high brands I've never even heard of!
Time to start googling some of them and trying to get myself a higher class of friend

Some of the high end stuff there like MB&F produce super ugly wrist warts for the uber rich and in tiny numbers. FPJ is the current darling for the "investor" but generally these lists cause a lot of arguments....Hublot for instance that should be down in luxury at best.

banie01

Fitz II wrote: »

Some of the high end stuff there like MB&F produce super ugly wrist warts for the uber rich and in tiny numbers. FPJ is the current darling for the "investor" but generally these lists cause a lot of arguments....Hublot for instance that should be down in luxury at best.

I agree with you in FULL Fitz.

The list is a mishmash of brands that are designed to trigger a response from some who will claim outrage or upset at levels or exceptions

The high end stuff is interesting but the majority of it is Uber ugly imo.

emo72

Hublot are rich mans Invicta.

unkel

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

Hublot above the likes of Rolex, Arnold & son, Zenith and Omega.

:eek:

Paul Thorpe last night said he likes some Hublot watches and bought several in the past. I like the dude and all but my finger is hovering over the unsub button

Fitz II

I am not super anti Hublot....they do make some nice watches, but they are super overpriced for what they are. Very derivative, spirit of the big bang is just a copy of Richard Mille, and classic fusion is a AP royal oak rip off.....I dont really get why people have strong feeling about hublot. I would not buy one in a million years, but its not total muck.