Who Watches the Watchmen (Our Chit Chat Thread)

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397047#Comment_118397047

You put the watch on a turntable cause the camera is stationary to get a nice macro,what you see is the smoothness of the turntable. If the watch is running and you set the turntable 60 sec counterclockwise the second hand stays stationary....a cool effect. Run it CW and you run twice as fast, again a cool effect. More classy to hack the watch and get a more realistic movement of the second hand but only for short shots.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118397692#Comment_118397692

case design from the 70's,

Very true, but to be fair Fitz again that's them trying to ape the conservative Swiss stuff. Pretty much all the currently highly sought after Swiss brand models are 70's even 60's designs and not just in cases. PP Nautilus, AP Royal oak, all Rolex, Omega Speedies. The Germans like A Lange & Sohne are about the only ones bucking that trend with new designs.

The discerning collectors of the rise in popularity of the hobby over last ten years are incredibly conservative and the Swiss brands reflect that or they know they won't sell their wares. Rolex buyers were always conservative. Their Oysterquartz produced at crazy expense was by a goodly margin their most innovative and best finished movement of 20th century Rolex production and even at the height of quartz popularity they were a hard sell. Their Cosmograph/Daytona was such a hard sell AD's were giving them away as part of other deals and by the early 70's the rest were sold off to their own people in the trade for 30-40 quid a pop. AP's first series Royal Oak took an age to sell off their first 1000 pieces and they had to add gold and two tone models to the mix to keep them in the "luxury" game.

A vid came up on my youtube feed this morning and I thought of what you were saying about watch youtubers and how there's only so many ways to skin an anorexic cat. The title was along the lines of "Rolex predictions for 2022". There would be little point clicking on it. My prediction? They'll do absolutely feck all. Slight colour change on a dial or bezel, restart production on some model or other that's been around since the egg and a model in gold that hasn't been available in gold for three years. Now that would get the hardcore fans pulling the skeletons out of themselves with the shock, but it's very thin gruel.

To beat the car analogy to a bloody pulp, again: 😁 If the Swiss luxury watch brands were cars they would have never stopped selling MGBs. So it's not too much of a surprise that Seiko are trying to flog Mx-5's to get a piece of that action(though if GS were an MX-5 they'd be a lot better).

Cyclingtourist

I'm going to start introducing bicycle analogies on here, for the sake of gyroscopic balance.

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396778#Comment_118396778

but then who in real life looks at a watch using a macro lens

Guilty yer honner. happy new year everyone.

Cienciano

Thinking of buying a vostok and modding it to look like a grand seiko

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118400963#Comment_118400963

Also guilty. Fine finishing is what separates brands. And if I can spending 4 and 5 figures on a watch then it better be as close to flawless as possible to the naked eye and under lens.

njburke

Fitz,I can't let the "Spring Drive is just another quartz" be presented as a statement of fact rather than opinion.

Seiko holds 230 Patents on Spring drive IP, that's a lot of innovation for just another quartz.

One of the things I like about Spring Drive is that it hasn't been replicated by the Chinese fakers. It's like it's hard to make a spring drive watch so the fakers spend their efforts on the low hanging fruit that is almost any swiss luxury mechanical.

As for the Grand Seiko con job, I've fallen for it, twice, there's another in the post to me.

Cienciano

I like the spring drive, hi beat and quartz. All 3 have their appeal

Fitz II

**** Off topic Pedant alert ****

Gyroscopic effects dont balance a bicycle, its the front loaded steering geometry and the caster effect. Gyroscopic effects are only used to steer when riding no hands. But without hands it makes a poor watch analogy 🤣

**** Pedant alert over ****

Fine finishing is nice to have but it has to be in combination with other good aspects of a watch. Precious materials, great design, classic looks, wearability etc. GS just leans into Macro finishing immediately cause it aint go nowever else to go.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401251#Comment_118401251

No its not just another quartz....its sneaky quartz 😁. I dont care how many patients they have (this is always pulled out as somehow proof its inovative, but thats not the question at hand. I am sure all watchmakers have 1000's of patents on various design aspects) Its a watch who's timekeeping is regulated by a quartz crystal. You can dress that up all you want, and hey there it absolutely nothing wrong with a quartz watch, but its GS that push this as a innovation of the mechanical rather than a degradation of the quartz. Spring drive is a solution to a problem nobody was asking.

scwazrh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401251#Comment_118401251

Have you had a GS quartz ?I wonder is the finishing a higher quality on the pricier watches ?

Cienciano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401311#Comment_118401311

Funny how everyone is different. Precious materials are a turn off. Gold or diamonds on a watch are an attraction for some, turn off for me. The rest is subjective.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118396778#Comment_118396778

Guilty, except for the music part, which is always excellent.

scwazrh

Fitz : Its a watch who's timekeeping is regulated by a quartz crystal

Why the hate towards quartz though ?All the negatives people put forward about quartz watches such as the lack of heart , lack of craftsmanship, the tick stop tick of the second hand but these are only on battery powered watches .Spring drive is a mechanical watch and has all the positives that mechanical watches have and better timekeeping accuracy.

 Spring drive is a solution to a problem nobody was asking.

the problems were the inaccuracies of mechanical movements and the requirement of changing a battery in a quartz powered watch.Spring drive solved both those problems .

If spring drive had been developed by Swiss watch makers it probably would have been heralded as important a step forward as the addition of the rotor to a manual wind movement.

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401487#Comment_118401487

Have nothing against quartz, specifically said that.

The solution to the inaccuracy of mechanical is quartz, mechaquartz if you want a sweep seconds. No battery....kinetic quartz has been around for ages (1988), along with solar.

Springdrive is is in some weird no mans land where you have to care about accuracy above a good mechanical but not enough to get a quartz...weird and pointless.

njburke

I have a GS sbgv225, it's a 9F Quartz. It's the best finished watch I own. I haven't worn it yet as I've to get some full size links, it came with two half size links.

My wife asked me to buy her a watch, she specified a good watch that will last. We were looking at two tone Rolex 79173s, she liked the look but not the stops if you don't wear it and you'll need service it every couple of years. So I showed her the similar looking GS stgf286, the diamonds on the indices seemed to ring her bell. She chose it purely on aesthetic.

As a side note, I bought a cheap quartz tester recently. One of it's functions is it measures the rate of a quartz by inductive pickup from the stepper coil. I was trying to establish how accurate the meter is i.e. how much jitter in the measurement. Anyhow, I was working through a handful of various quartz watches, then I remembered the Grand Seiko, I was pretty impressed with both the meter and the GS when the meter reported 0.0 rate.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401338#Comment_118401338

I like gold for dress watches. In tool watches? TBH they smell too much of car salesmen, rappers and African potentates. Diamonds are IMHO for women and even there... Diamonds are one of the finest marketing con jobs in history with a resale value drop that makes a new TAG Heuer look like a worthy investment. 😁

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401550#Comment_118401550

My wife asked me to buy her a watch, she specified a good watch that will last. We were looking at two tone Rolex 79173s, she liked the look but not the stops if you don't wear it and you'll need service it every couple of years. So I showed her the similar looking GS stgf286, the diamonds on the indices seemed to ring her bell. She chose it purely on aesthetic.

Women for the most part almost entirely bypassed the Swiss "mechanical has soul" aspect of watches. They want practical jewellery. Though more recently that has started to rub off on the women's market more. Not so long ago all of Patek's ladies watches were quartz. Tarted up with finishing on the plates, but quartz. When FP Journe brought out a women's watch he made it a (very nicely made)quartz.

Cienciano

The only gold watches I like are vintage watches. Women are dead right, mechanical is a load of shite, not even noticeable with some watches that don't have a display back. Need to do a car comparison with mechanical and quartz. In 30 years when a battery can can do 2000 miles on a charge and needs servicing once every 100k km, outperforms the ICE car in every way, no doubt there'll be some internet group driving 40 year old 2l diesel BMW's saying the electric cars have no "soul" 😂

Wibbs

There's an element of that to it alright, but the car comparison breaks down(no pun) to some degree. Watches are now male jewellry rather than the necessity they once were. If we take the car comparision they're more like the weekend sports car the (mostly)middle aged guy drives to meet other golfists at the weekend, rather than the car he drives to work or brings the kids to school. There's little utility involved. They're one of the signifiers of wealth and taste within the society and social group they inhabit and in that framework the utilitarian superiority of quartz is a major negative. On more US based forums you see this more openly and you'll even see some guys boasting about how much a service costs on their [insert expensive brand here].

As for "soul" I can see it more with a handwider than an auto. There's a personal connection to the old style contained within. For me there's more of that element in vintage stuff too as they're more delicate and from a different time, often reflecting same. A Tesla Plaid can go from 0-1000 in half a second or whatever with little effort save for keeping your retinas where nature intended, but driving something like a 60's Ferrari with a Columbo V12 revving to seven grand is a far more visceral and involved and involving experience, even though a hot hatch would worry it in the performance end of things(Though they've become very expensive jewellry too, polished and pickled, rarely actually driven). I once had a go of a very well sorted 1960's Lotus Elan. Oh. My. God. The level of feel and connection in that thing was off the scale insane. Though I agree with your regarding the diesel Beemer. I would say a fair few "soulful" mechanical watches, particularly in the vintage realm can fall into that bracket.

micks_address

Don't know about soul but I do enjoy listening to the ticking noise of the movement in the speedmaster. It's not in my Spotify unwrapped playlist though.

Cyclingtourist

Wibbs quote:

"They're one of the signifiers of wealth and taste within the society and social group they inhabit and in that framework the utilitarian superiority of quartz is a major negative."

I think it's called 'conspicuous consumption'.

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405598#Comment_118405598

It's a term coined by our old friend Thorstein Veblen of 'Veblen goods' e.g. certain Rolex watches, fame.

CalamariFritti

I'm thinking of upgrading my 'diver' which is currently a basic Seiko skx013 which is nice but feels a bit dated looks wise.

As it got a mention here I always liked the Seamster midsize automatic myself.

But all brand, price and other considerations left out, just on the face/looks of it, I really like the Steinhart Ocean 39 GMT in black, too. Looks really like a considerable upgrade to my skx013. And not even near Omega money. Any experience with them?

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405753#Comment_118405753

I have a Steinhart Ocean 39 (see post pics of your watches thread) and an Omega Seamaster mid-sized quartz which is almost identical to the automatic. If you have the money go for the Seamaster but be aware you may have to have it serviced. This was the main reason I went for the quartz version.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405332#Comment_118405332

Yes and no. More we're a social animal and part of that is display of group affiliations and status. Clothes, cars, language, phones, all sorts. We all do it pretty much. Just the signifiers change.

Fitz II

All valid points wibbs....but the Pontiff Archieluxury once put if very succinctly.

"People want nice sh1t....and nice sh1t is never cheap sh1t."

There is a certain truth to this, you can dance around the edges fleshing out the details, but this is the core of it. I think that with watches being so niche, there is a lot more internal validation going on than external. Its human nature, and to know/show you now live at the peek of Maslow's hierarchy is in itself a basic desire.

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118406796#Comment_118406796

I buy lots of my clothes in Oxfam & other charity shops, I drive an 04 Ford Fiesta, I only speak English, my phone is a Nokia... what does that 'signify'?

Cienciano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407058#Comment_118407058

Every has their priorities. Your bicycle costs more than your car.

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118407279#Comment_118407279

Not even close. No nct on my bikes (3) and then there's tax/insurance, petrol, licence (3 years) to keep the car on the road. If I didn't have a car think of the watches I could buy.☺☺

Pablo_Flox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405753#Comment_118405753

I have the Batman version that I had posted in the For Sale section a few months ago. If you were interested in it feel free to drop a DM.

CalamariFritti

Batman means black/blue?