"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

storker

Penn wrote: »

A big one-on-one swordfight between Jon and the Night King would have been a pretty bland and dull ending imo. .

It would have been pretty cliched too. That scene has been countless times. To death, one could say, heh, heh.

beauf

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I can't remember where but it was mentioned that they secured the gold, just lost a lot of men and supplies.

This. The gold is secure. Unless someone robs it.

Tazzimus

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I can't remember where but it was mentioned that they secured the gold, just lost a lot of men and supplies.

Yeah the end of the baggage train was attacked, the main part with the gold was already in KL.
Also fairly sure that gold was used to pay off the loan to the Iron Bank, and a new one taken out to hire the Golden Company

enfant terrible

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I've no idea what the size of the Lannister army is, but let's say at least 10,000-15,000 at this point, possibly more. The Golden Company has 20,000 including cavalry. The Ironborn the same or more at least (I'm not sure).

I can't possibly see how there's even a small fraction of that left in the North.

I'm hoping the show doesn't irrationally conjure up a sizeable army that somehow survived Winterfell without explanation.

I have a fear they will (spoiler for preview of Ep4):

the preview for next episode shows a sizable contingent of Unsullied which doesn't seem to make a huge amount of sense from what we saw

I wonder will Dorne come back into play to try and even the odds. I also noticed at Winterfell that the Knights of the Vale weren't there. edit for clarify: I know there were some bannermen, but the main force, including cavalry, didn't appear to be there.

It seems unlikely they would muddy the waters this late by introducing other armies from across Westeros, but it could happen.

Are they not just setting up the Golden Army to double cross Cerci by saying they've never broken a contract.

So that will be her undoing, hopefully not seems too obvious.

beauf

ogsjw wrote: »

A ballista features prominently in the credits sequence for this season, expect them to return. I don't think there was just enough material for one in the entire continent :pac: I also don't think the Golden Company plan to fight off two dragons with calvary :pac:

I wonder if the dragon's fire will set off the wild fyre.

I think a mild curry will set it off...

There no lore about dragons, and fighting them. Lore would usually be a feature of this genre. Its odd that GOT doesn't really. We had a bit about the citadel and white walkers etc. Not much else.

TerrorFirmer

enfant terrible wrote: »

Are they not just setting up the Golden Army to double cross Cerci by saying they've never broken a contract.

So that will be her undoing, hopefully not seems too obvious.

I think that would be too cheap from a narrative POV for them to double cross her per se, as a mercenary company famed for never breaking a contract....

Unless she forces their hand through sheer illogical and manacial behavior, to pull a full-army 'Kingslayer' move and abandon her.

Can't see them actually double crossing her though.

storker

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's kind of clear that the writers have gone for trying to please the people that just want to see 'cool stuff', rather than the people who would like it to make some kind of coherent sense.

It's a pity really.

"Cool stuff" would have been the Dothraki kicking dead ass left and right with their flaming swords. Seeing them snuffed out from a distance and failing to make any visible impact was decidedly uncool...and much more worrying. Good call by the writers say I.

Likewise, the lazy "cool stuff" approach would have been to have Jon Snow slash his way through countless minions to finally face off and then ultimately, after a long drawn-out fight and just when things are really looking bad, defeat the Night King - just like Braveheart, The Patriot...etc...zzzz. Instead, the viewers gets..."aha, here's Jon-boy for the big fight...oh that's a lot of wights to get through...and now the Night King's buggered off...hmmm what now...maybe Bran will do something...ah it's Arya!...oops not so good Arya...wait...ah...that showed him." A surprise opponent for the Night King, and a quick kill, defying the cliches. Another good call by the writers, say I.

yourdeadwright

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I think that would be too cheap from a narrative POV for them to double cross her per se, as a mercenary company famed for never breaking a contract....

Unless she forces their hand through sheer illogical and manacial behavior, to pull a full-army 'Kingslayer' move and abandon her.

Can't see them actually double crossing her though.

Surely Daario Naharis still has a role to play ,
Id bet my bottom doller he turns up with the gold company ,

Necro

Tazzimus wrote: »

Yeah the end of the baggage train was attacked, the main part with the gold was already in KL.
Also fairly sure that gold was used to pay off the loan to the Iron Bank, and a new one taken out to hire the Golden Company

Yeah pretty sure they showed the gold being marched into KL. If not then I dreamed it up and I need to stop watching too much GOT :pac:

How Soon Is Now

beauf wrote: »

Remind me what was this again?

Tyrion asked Bran about how he became the three eyed raven etc.

It then cuts away and we see nothing.

TerrorFirmer

homerun_homer wrote: »

I remember thinking this was a bit of a plot hole at the time but forgot about it. I don't understand how they'd be attacked and let others with the gold cart back home. I'm trying to remember, had they sent the gold on ahead of them at the start of the episode or something?

It was the vanguard of the army that sacked Highgarden that was caught and destroyed along with a lot of supplies.

Again I can't remember the exact dialogue but it's suggested that a good portion of the Lannister/Tarly army made it to Kings Landing with the wealth seperately, ahead of the forces Jaime was leading.

storker

Is this a good time to ask...what did the Night King want, anyway?

beauf

homerun_homer wrote: »

I remember thinking this was a bit of a plot hole at the time but forgot about it. I don't understand how they'd be attacked and let others with the gold cart back home. I'm trying to remember, had they sent the gold on ahead of them at the start of the episode or something?

They were spread out. The head of the army and the gold had already made it in.

The rest of the army was strung out in a column in the open.

Tactically that battle made much more sense. Also used the dragons much better.

beauf

storker wrote: »

Is this a good time to ask...what did the Night King want, anyway?

Lol. No idea. Everyone dead was mentioned. But not Bran, or why he wanted him etc.

How Soon Is Now

storker wrote: »

Is this a good time to ask...what did the Night King want, anyway?

All I think we really know is he wanted to rid the world of three eyed raven. Wipe history as such.

I assume killing anyone in his path goes along with this.

GottaGetGatt

storker wrote: »

Is this a good time to ask...what did the Night King want, anyway?

By the looks of things, that's a question that wont be answered along with what all the symbols meant.

Necro

beauf wrote: »

Lol. No idea. Everyone dead was mentioned. But not Bran, or why he wanted him etc.

Basically to destroy the realms of men. The three eyed raven - now Bran - represented the memories of all who existed so he wanted to snuff him out.

Basically your typical tyrannical maniac who wished nothing but death and destruction.

TerrorFirmer

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Surely Daario Naharis still has a role to play ,
Id bet my bottom doller he turns up with the gold company ,

I was just thinking that very thing earlier.

storker

Necro wrote: »

Basically your typical tyrannical maniac who wished nothing but death and destruction.

The Night King and Cersei would have made quite the power couple...

Tabnabs

Vladimir Furdik aka The Night King, the fight scenes he is capable off. Oh what a character the NK could have been...

Airyfairy12

Tabnabs wrote: »

Vladimir Furdik aka The Night King, the fight scenes he is capable off. Oh what a character the NK could have been...

Doesnt look that great in fairness, the camera angles are also all over the place.

dusty bin

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

While where on the subject of Tyrion does anyone think anything will come of the conversation he had off screen with Bran?

I think most people assumed it would affect The Night King story but obviously nothing we seen anyway.

Surely they have to address this seeing as they made a point of not showing any of it.

Afterwards, during the fireplace scene, tyrion declared that he thinks they'd all survive. I'm assuming he meant those around the fire. Maybe bran told him those in the cyrpts and those not called mormont or dothraki would survive and they'd win.

at the start of episode 3, tyrion stares at bran when theon was pushing him to the godswood and of course bran stares back.

How Soon Is Now

dusty bin wrote: »

Afterwards, during the fireplace scene, tyrion declared that he thinks they'd all survive. I'm assuming he meant those around the fire. Maybe bran told him those in the cyrpts and those not called mormont or dothraki would survive and they'd win.

at the start of episode 3, tyrion stares at bran when theon was pushing him to the godswood and of course bran stares back.

There has to be something juicy in that conversation where yet to find out about. Especially for Tyrions role in this.

homerun_homer

storker wrote: »

Is this a good time to ask...what did the Night King want, anyway?

As well as wiping clean the history of men, I think he wanted him gone because as long as the three eyed raven exists, he can see with his ravens/crows what the night king is up to, and where he is I presume. Ultimately this is his downfall as he just had to stay away from this battle until everyone was killed.

Drumpot

homerun_homer wrote: »

As well as wiping clean the history of men, I think he wanted him gone because as long as the three eyed raven exists, he can see with his ravens/crows what the night king is up to, and where he is I presume. Ultimately this is his downfall as he just had to stay away from this battle until everyone was killed.

Actually, what was the point of him sending the ravens off during the battle ? Its not like he did anything , he just sat there waiting for the NK

Necro

Drumpot wrote: »

Actually, what was the point of him sending the ravens off during the battle ? Its not like he did anything , he just sat there waiting for the NK

To hazard a guess - baiting him? I don't really know. I expected Bran to die if I'm honest and I think the moment might have been better had the Night King killed him and then been stabbed.

But that's being really nitpicky tbh. I just don't know what other purpose Bran now serves in the grander scheme of things.

Apart from telling everyone that Jon is nailing his aunt maybe :pac:

Sardonicat

Drumpot wrote: »

homerun_homer wrote: »

As well as wiping clean the history of men, I think he wanted him gone because as long as the three eyed raven exists, he can see with his ravens/crows what the night king is up to, and where he is I presume. Ultimately this is his downfall as he just had to stay away from this battle until everyone was killed.

Actually, what was the point of him sending the ravens off during the battle ? Its not like he did anything , he just sat there waiting for the NK

Someone answered that many pages back. He was deliberately drawing his attention to where he was.

Drumpot

Tabnabs wrote: »

Vladimir Furdik aka The Night King, the fight scenes he is capable off. Oh what a character the NK could have been...

I like the NK character we got TBH. I dont think him going hand to hand combat like that would of added to the character, I prefered his unrelenting charge to Bran. I immediately thought "f**k him" when he rose all those dead instead of fighting Jon, but after thinking about it I like it that he didnt waste time like a Bond villian and went straight for his target. He didn't have to fight Jon and so didn't bother, I like that.

Penn

Reading some people's theories that Jon wasn't yelling at the dragon, but rather that she was shouting GO! to Arya, and stood in front of the dragon to distract it so she could get past. This would work as the very next clip aside from the NK reaching for his weapon is the hair of a White Walker being blown, and then Arya jumping at the Night King.

Drumpot

Necro wrote: »

I just don't know what other purpose Bran now serves in the grander scheme of things.

To creep everybody out? ....

yourdeadwright

Drumpot wrote: »

Actually, what was the point of him sending the ravens off during the battle ? Its not like he did anything , he just sat there waiting for the NK

To see where the NK was ,

Iv also seen people say that due to there connection the NK could see what Bran was thinking but due to him Warging he could not .,

Penn

yourdeadwright wrote: »

To see where the NK was ,

Iv also seen people say that due to there connection the NK could see what Bran was thinking but due to him Warging he could not .,

I doubt that. Bran stopped warging before Theon died. If the NK could see what Bran was thinking when not warging, given that Bran gave Arya the dagger and knew he had to be at the tree, Bran obviously knew what Arya was going to do. Which would have meant the NK would then have known.

omerin

Maybe to turn Jon into a Night King, given that they are outnumbered, he's dead anyway :pac:, no aspiration to sit on the throne, a worthy sacrifice..... He raises the dead around Winterfell, marches on Kings Landing and defeats Cersai, getting his moment in the sun, so to speak.

So to sum up, the WW were built up from scene 1 of episode 1, season 1. All they really want is every human to die and to kill Bran because memories and stuff. Nobody really knows why they waited thousands of years to attack.
They went on an adventure south and made it to the most northern point of south.

Screw it, they’re dead now anyways

Necro

Deleted User wrote: »

So to sum up, the WW were built up from scene 1 of episode 1, season 1. All they really want is every human to die and to kill Bran because memories and stuff. Nobody really knows why they waited thousands of years to attack.
They went on an adventure south and made it to the most northern point of south.

Screw it, they’re dead now anyways

Can't discuss the books in this thread so I'm not sure what other answer you're going to get though.
It did happen before though which is why the Wall was erected in the first place to keep them out of the realms of men.

Drumpot

Necro wrote: »

Can't discuss the books in this thread so I'm not sure what other answer you're going to get though.
It did happen before though which is why the Wall was erected in the first place to keep them out of the realms of men.

If I read the books now would it enhance shows ?

RickBlaine

Explaining Arya killing the NK as pandering to MeToo is such a stupid argument.

Just a few episodes ago, Bronn literally hired 3 whores to do as he pleased with them. Hardly sounds like a show pandering to MeToo.

Arya is a major character since season 1. She was fighting for Jon, her brother, her home and the living. Her gender is irrelevant.

Necro

Drumpot wrote: »

If I read the books now would it enhance shows ?

PMed you so as to not get into a discussion re: the books in this thread.

martyos121

Penn wrote: »

Reading some people's theories that Jon wasn't yelling at the dragon, but rather that she was shouting GO! to Arya, and stood in front of the dragon to distract it so she could get past. This would work as the very next clip aside from the NK reaching for his weapon is the hair of a White Walker being blown, and then Arya jumping at the Night King.

But if Arya wasn’t even gunning for the Night King until her chat with Melisandre, at what point did Jon have a chance to plot the kill with her? Not disagreeing with the theory btw, I’m sure it’s possible that they planned it all along and she was indeed waiting for a signal from Jon, but it doesn’t seem likely to me as she was just trying to survive up until the scene with the Red Woman.

Also, how far away was Jon from the Godswood at that point? I can’t quite map it out in my head, but he seemed to be surviving the dragon at the other end of Winterfell.

It is an interesting theory though.

Brock Turnpike

Penn wrote: »

Reading some people's theories that Jon wasn't yelling at the dragon, but rather that she was shouting GO! to Arya, and stood in front of the dragon to distract it so she could get past. This would work as the very next clip aside from the NK reaching for his weapon is the hair of a White Walker being blown, and then Arya jumping at the Night King.

Wow. The mental gymnastics that people will do to try fit a certain narrative

lawred2

Today's Phrase of the Day is...

'Mental Gymnastics'

fash

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

All I think we really know is he wanted to rid the world of three eyed raven. Wipe history as such.

I assume killing anyone in his path goes along with this.

Actually when one thinks about it (and I kinda accepted it until now) - what the hell would killing the 3ER actually achieve? Almost no-one in the world of man knows who he is - what is the 3ER to the people of Essos or the summer isles? Especially in the time before magic returned.

I wonder how much dialogue was in that episode compared to the average

beauf

Tabnabs wrote: »

Vladimir Furdik aka The Night King, the fight scenes he is capable off. Oh what a character the NK could have been...

That looks like the fight sceen with ARTHUR DAYNE.

fash

Mokuba wrote: »

Lyanna Mormont killing a giant was utter nonsense and symbolic of this very issue.

What a load of garbage that scene was. Like twitter fan fiction.

For sure - but have to give Bella Ramsey credit for making such an impression that she forced that result.

threeball

Mokuba wrote: »

Arya had two primary show long storylines, her finding her identity and fulfilling the list of names on her death list.

What was wrong with her arc being the culmination of the list, and letting other deal with the plot she had no involvement in?

You're obsessed with arcs. Arc's are predictable and boring. There was nothing wrong with Arya killing the NK bar the way she did it.

Nalz

What's an arc?

Necro

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder how much dialogue was in that episode compared to the average

Very little I suspect. I liked it as it added to the overwhelming sense of dread throughout the episode.

Penn

martyos121 wrote: »

But if Arya wasn’t even gunning for the Night King until her chat with Melisandre, at what point did Jon have a chance to plot the kill with her? Not disagreeing with the theory btw, I’m sure it’s possible that they planned it all along and she was indeed waiting for a signal from Jon, but it doesn’t seem likely to me as she was just trying to survive up until the scene with the Red Woman.

Also, how far away was Jon from the Godswood at that point? I can’t quite map it out in my head, but he seemed to be surviving the dragon at the other end of Winterfell.

It is an interesting theory though.

It wouldn't have been that Jon plotted with Arya, but that knowing he was pinned down, its possible he saw Arya, knew she was trying to get to the Godswood too, and popped out of cover to distract the dragon so she could get past as he couldn't.

The courtyard they were in led directly to the Godswood through an arch if I remember right. It was just outside the Godswood as thats where Jon was trying to get to. He went through most of the rest of winter fell to try get there.

J. Marston

Arcs, arcs, arcs. They shouldn't be used to rigidly keep characters on rails to a certain conclusion.

How many times has Jon tried to help and succeeded? A lot.

This time he tried as hard as he possibly could and couldn't do it. He failed and him realising that as he is huddled behind the wall with the dragon looming, and that music playing, actually hit me more than a one on one showdown with Night King would've.