"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

Chris_Heilong

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Great episode. All criticism are from the Uber nerds who massively over analyse everything, come up with their theories and if such theories are shown to be nonsense they react with a nerd explosion. By and large these kind of people ruin everything.

On its own it’s a fantastic effort and not at all surprising that Arya did the deed, nor that the NK was vanquished.

very suprising actually.if you are a casual watcher who has not been there from the start then I can undstand you liking this episode but it completely destroys Jons story arc in favor of Arya fan service. This has really become a LOST like situation and I think the episode will be remembered as the point when the show died for a lot of people.

Chris_Heilong

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

very suprising actually.if you are a casual watcher who has not been there from the start then I can undstand you liking this episode but it completely destroys Jons story arc in favor of Arya fan service. This has really become a LOST like situation and I think the episode will be remembered as the point when the show died for a lot of people.

I don't know what you class as a casual viewer, but of all the people I've talked to have watched it from the start, only a couple had complaints about the episode (and they're both the type that would read about the show online).

You may be right about when the show died for a lot of people, but I doubt it's due to Jon's arc or Arya killing the NK.

jammiedodgers

jammiedodgers wrote: »

This may cheer you up. I know I found it much easier to watch than the actual episode.

That guy gets it.

Brutal takedown. There's barely a scene in the episode that makes logical sense.

One thing I've always wondered is what knowledge did the Night King etc have of what exists beyond the wall? Assuming nobody has crossed it in however many years, did they expect that they could cross the wall and wipe out anything in their path because they're almost invincible? How did they know they wouldn't be coming up against hundreds of dragons, for example?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Great episode. All criticism are from the Uber nerds who massively over analyse everything

Pepper, you can't just dismiss legitimate criticism by branding everyone uber nerds. If my enjoyment of the show is marred by ridiculous writing that jars me from each scene every minute or two, and if there are millions of others who feel the same way, then it is what it is. An entertaining mess that will only be remembered for ruining a decade's build-up.

biggebruv

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

very suprising actually.if you are a casual watcher who has not been there from the start then I can undstand you liking this episode but it completely destroys Jons story arc in favor of Arya fan service. This has really become a LOST like situation and I think the episode will be remembered as the point when the show died for a lot of people.

How has it destroyed Jon’s arc he gathered every resource he could to get everything in place for the battle he’s played a massive role in everything just because he didn’t get the final killing blow means his “arc” is destroyed come on

ogsjw

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I think the episode will be remembered as the point when the show died for a lot of people.

I emotionally checked out because of this episode, for sure. Big let down. Front loaded synthetic tension building and then when it was pay-off time it was fumbled and over before I knew it. Still gonna be checking out the remaining three asap but yeah this definitely happened to me. I just kinda feel nothing for the rest of the series now. It's like when you go to bed angry with your significant other and things are different when you wake up


Jon's arc (can we stop before we kill this term :P) has been 'destroyed' because he was set up to be more important than he seems to be right now; he was literally resurrected by L'ohr for what... getting a crew together?
Time will tell, I don't think his story is quite finished, and we may see The Prince that was Promised yet.

ThunbergsAreGo

As with the post above if I am honest I don't really care who sits on the Throne at the end, or about the majority of the main characters involved anymore.

I don't think it's down to the episode, it's been coming for a while now. Alot of the "good" characters aren't that interesting anymore or have any nuance about them.

biggebruv

ogsjw wrote: »

I emotionally checked out because of this episode, for sure. Big let down. Front loaded synthetic tension building and then when it was pay-off time it was fumbled and over before I knew it. Still gonna be checking out the remaining three asap but yeah this definitely happened to me. I just kinda feel nothing for the rest of the series now. It's like when you go to bed angry with your significant other and things are different when you wake up


Jon's arc (can we stop before we kill this term :P) has been 'destroyed' because he was set up to be more important than he seems to be right now; he was literally resurrected by L'ohr for what... getting a crew together?
Time will tell, I don't think his story is quite finished, and we may see The Prince that was Promised yet.

Isn’t that what people want from thrones aswell though expectations turned on there head everyone and there mother expected Jon snow to be the usual Hollywood hero who saves the day but that was turned on its head and given to Arya you can disagree with the choice of her doing it but it does fit with the show as a whole it’s not as if she just randomly became a great fighter or gained assassin skills in a couple episodes she’s had a history with this skillset

DeadHand

I think there's a lot of bandwagoning and dog-piling going on over this episode: it's become fashionable to tear it down because it did not quite live up to hype. In my opinion, it was as an episode and spectacle still compelling viewing, somewhere below the Red Wedding, Hardhome and the BoB and above Blackwater and Spoils of War.

The start was tense and terrifying, really well done. People complain that the armies were outside the walls, this actually makes sense to me as the armies involved were too vast to all be positioned inside; having the main part of the force outside with the walls to fall back to delays the onslaught further (it was all about delay, not winning) and gives the archers more time to whittle down the enemy too. Why they were in front of the fire trench is less easily explained... being generous I'll argue that it was also part of the delaying strategy.

What is unforgivable is having the artillery in front of the infantry. These were rare and expensive machines in a medieval context and that positioning was ludicrous. They predictably only got one volley out before being over run and with proven battlefield commanders present like Grey Worm, Jaime, Davos, Jon (though never the sharpest tactician), Bronze Yohn and even Eddison and Tyrion around that, to me, was probably the only unforgivable plot hole.

And where was Bronze Yohn? He appeared in so many of the Winterfell scenes in the lead up, so the actor was around. Ridiculous to have one of the most respected surviving military veteran leaders in Westeros disappear as battle commences while a fourteen year old girl marshals the defenders instead. Having said that, I'm not salty about any of Lyanna Mormont's exploits in the battle, Joan of Arc was not much older when she featured prominently in the Hundred Years War.

The Dothraki charge comes in for a lot of criticism but makes sense to me. The Dead are essentially light infantry; determined cavalry can be expected to do awful things to lightly armed and unarmored infantry (see Stannis versus the Wildlings). The usual function of medieval cavalry was to charge and obliterate the enemy or charge, withdraw, then charge again and wear the enemy infantry down that way rather than stay in a protracted melee with them. It's reasonable to assume the living thought the Dothraki could get a few charges in before the dead reached Winterfell but the savages were shocked and overwhelmed by the scale and ferocity of the enemy. You can see the surprised horror when the Dothraki melt away on the first attempt. Jorah manages to do his charge and withdraw job to an extent, but unlike his barbarian comrades, he is well armored, an A-tier warrior and armed with Valyrian steel.

Of course, the ideal thing would be to hit the Dead in the flank after the infantry had engaged but maybe it was too dark/too late for a complex maneuver. The Dothraki have a culture that values recklessness anyway so a wild frontal charge is not all that absurd. In any event, the visual was absolutely stunning.

Maybe it was an overly prompt way to get rid of the Dothraki, who have been with us since episode 1. They could have done with a scene in the previous episodes or a speech/moment before the charge just to give their decimation more substance.

No problem with the Knights of the Vale fighting on foot, medieval knights often fought on foot when the situation demanded it, such as in a defensive scenario.

I loved the role of the Red Woman, she turns up unexpectedly to give the good guys a supernatural counter against supernatural foes like a twisted Gandalf. Her scenes were haunting, especially appearing out of the dark at the very start and shuffling out to the wastes to die, her life's purpose fulfilled, at the very end.

Maybe there was an opportunity to bump off more named characters, we still have a crowded cast going into end game. Sam especially should have died. His arc, which was all to do with the WW threat, is done. As well as that, it was ridiculous to have him wallowing in the mud in the courtyard while Winterfell was being over run yet still survive somehow. His plot armor was the thickest of all in the episode. I don't mind others surviving the odds. Remember, they were mostly A-tier warriors, you become so by having a habit of being alive at the end of battles. Brienne, Jaime, Jon and Jorah all had Valyrian steel which cuts down the undead effortlessly. The Hound and Thormund are hardened survivors. Gendry gets plot armor because he needs to round off the Baratheon loose end, and let's just say Pod is lucky! Jon and Jorah's Valyrian steel and skill/determination gives them credible license to move around the battle as they did, in my view.

Theon, Beric, Edd, Jorah, Melisandre, Lyanna as well as most of the Dothraki, Unsullied, most of the Vale Knights, Wildlings, Northern Army, Night's Watch, The Night King and all the White Walkers still die. While there was certainly room to dispatch more named characters with them, that's by far the biggest body count of any set piece yet.

The scenes in the crypt were a nice counter to the confusion of the battle and nicely done. One problem is the corpses in the crypt were not killed by wights or WWs and so should not have turned based on what we've seen so far. This explains why the living thought the crypts were a safe refuge... It's not hard to imagine the NK was at the height of his power during the assault and so became able to turn even corpses killed in a neutral way, surprising the living.

Finally, I like Arya killing the Night King. The writing earned it, we see Arya go through so much pain and humiliation for so long to become what she is: a deadly assassin capable of killing anything. She could have disguised herself as a Wight easily; had she actually peeled the face off a zombie on screen it would have telegraphed what was going to happen too obviously. Apart from that and her training, she knows Winterfell as well as anyone living. If anyone could blindside the Night King, it was her and she still barely gets away with it. She also had one of only five Valyrian steel weapons on the battlefield capable of harming the NK (we know dragonglass kills WWs, but no evidence it would harm the NK, dragonfire failed). So, the right material was brought by the right person to the right place at the right time. I think it was satisfying and nothing to do with "fan service", much less to do with "girl power".

There's not a lot that happened that can't be feasibly explained, which is impressive in a massive and supernatural fantasy battle. And I really enjoyed every minute.

Not the best show ever, not even the best GoT ever, but compelling television undeserving of much of the criticism it is getting.

facehugger99

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

This has really become a LOST like situation and I think the episode will be remembered as the point when the show died for a lot of people.

I think the 'Beyond the Wall' episode from last season was where the shark got jumped for a lot of people. Last weeks episode just confirmed for me that we're going with nonsense fan-service over smart writing.

I'm re-watching it at the moment and it was so good for the first 4 seasons - I guess the source material was excellent too.

It's worrying that there's a large percentage of the current audience that seem completely oblivious to how poor last week's episode was- it does not give you confidence for the future of tv drama in general when you have people lapping up such ****e.

biggebruv

DeadHand wrote: »

I think there's a lot of bandwagoning and dog-piling going on over this episode: it's become fashionable to tear it down because it did not quite live up to hype. In my opinion, it was as an episode and spectacle still compelling viewing, somewhere below the Red Wedding, Hardhome and the BoB and above Blackwater and Spoils of War.

The start was tense and terrifying, really well done. People complain that the armies were outside the walls, this actually makes sense to me as the armies involved were too vast to all be positioned inside; having the main part of the force outside with the walls to fall back to delays the onslaught further (it was all about delay, not winning) and gives the archers more time to whittle down the enemy too. Why they were in front of the fire trench is less easily explained... being generous I'll argue that it was also part of the delaying strategy.

What is unforgivable is having the artillery in front of the infantry. These were rare and expensive machines in a medieval context and that positioning was ludicrous. They predictably only got one volley out before being over run and with proven battlefield commanders present like Grey Worm, Jaime, Davos, Jon (though never the sharpest tactician), Bronze Yohn and even Eddison and Tyrion around that, to me, was probably the only unforgivable plot hole.

And where was Bronze Yohn? He appeared in so many of the Winterfell scenes in the lead up, so the actor was around. Ridiculous to have one of the most respected surviving military veteran leaders in Westeros disappear as battle commences while a fourteen year old girl marshals the defenders instead. Having said that, I'm not salty about any of Lyanna Mormont's exploits in the battle, Joan of Arc was not much older when she featured prominently in the Hundred Years War.

The Dothraki charge comes in for a lot of criticism but makes sense to me. The Dead are essentially light infantry; determined cavalry can be expected to do awful things to lightly armed and unarmored infantry (see Stannis versus the Wildlings). The usual function of medieval cavalry was to charge and obliterate the enemy or charge, withdraw, then charge again and wear the enemy infantry down that way rather than stay in a protracted melee with them. It's reasonable to assume the living thought the Dothraki could get a few charges in before the dead reached Winterfell but the savages were shocked and overwhelmed by the scale and ferocity of the enemy. You can see the surprised horror when the Dothraki melt away on the first attempt. Jorah manages to do his charge and withdraw job to an extent, but unlike his barbarian comrades, he is well armored, an A-tier warrior and armed with Valyrian steel.

Of course, the ideal thing would be to hit the Dead in the flank after the infantry had engaged but maybe it was too dark/too late for a complex maneuver. The Dothraki have a culture that values recklessness anyway so a wild frontal charge is not all that absurd. In any event, the visual was absolutely stunning.

Maybe it was an overly prompt way to get rid of the Dothraki, who have been with us since episode 1. They could have done with a scene in the previous episodes or a speech/moment before the charge just to give their decimation more substance.

No problem with the Knights of the Vale fighting on foot, medieval knights often fought on foot when the situation demanded it, such as in a defensive scenario.

I loved the role of the Red Woman, she turns up unexpectedly to give the good guys a supernatural counter against supernatural foes like a twisted Gandalf. Her scenes were haunting, especially appearing out of the dark at the very start and shuffling out to the wastes to die, her life's purpose fulfilled, at the very end.

Maybe there was an opportunity to bump off more named characters, we still have a crowded cast going into end game. Sam especially should have died. His arc, which was all to do with the WW threat, is done. As well as that, it was ridiculous to have him wallowing in the mud in the courtyard while Winterfell was being over run yet still survive somehow. His plot armor was the thickest of all in the episode. I don't mind others surviving the odds. Remember, they were mostly A-tier warriors, you become so by having a habit of being alive at the end of battles. Brienne, Jaime, Jon and Jorah all had Valyrian steel which cuts down the undead effortlessly. The Hound and Thormund are hardened survivors. Gendry gets plot armor because he needs to round off the Baratheon loose end, and let's just say Pod is lucky! Jon and Jorah's Valyrian steel and skill/determination gives them credible license to move around the battle as they did, in my view.

Theon, Beric, Edd, Jorah, Melisandre, Lyanna as well as most of the Dothraki, Unsullied, most of the Vale Knights, Wildlings, Northern Army, Night's Watch, The Night King and all the White Walkers still die. While there was certainly room to dispatch more named characters with them, that's by far the biggest body count of any set piece yet.

The scenes in the crypt were a nice counter to the confusion of the battle and nicely done. One problem is the corpses in the crypt were not killed by wights or WWs and so should not have turned based on what we've seen so far. This explains why the living thought the crypts were a safe refuge... It's not hard to imagine the NK was at the height of his power during the assault and so became able to turn even corpses killed in a neutral way, surprising the living.

Finally, I like Arya killing the Night King. The writing earned it, we see Arya go through so much pain and humiliation for so long to become what she is: a deadly assassin capable of killing anything. She could have disguised herself as a Wight easily; had she actually peeled the face off a zombie on screen it would have telegraphed what was going to happen too obviously. Apart from that and her training, she knows Winterfell as well as anyone living. If anyone could blindside the Night King, it was her and she still barely gets away with it. She also had one of only five Valyrian steel weapons on the battlefield capable of harming the NK (we know dragonglass kills WWs, but no evidence it would harm the NK, dragonfire failed). So, the right material was brought by the right person to the right place at the right time. I think it was satisfying and nothing to do with "fan service", much less to do with "girl power".

There's not a lot that happened that can't be feasibly explained, which is impressive in a massive and supernatural fantasy battle. And I really enjoyed every minute.

Not the best show ever, not even the best GoT ever, but compelling television undeserving of much of the criticism it is getting.

100% agree with this. People are treating this like the show is actually over when we have 4hours worth of thrones left to go 2 full length movies essentially who knows what will happen

biggebruv

facehugger99 wrote: »

I think the 'Beyond the Wall' episode from last season was where the shark got jumped for a lot of people. Last weeks episode just confirmed for me that we're going with nonsense fan-service over smart writing.

I'm re-watching it at the moment and it was so good for the first 4 seasons - I guess the source material was excellent too.

It's worrying that there's a large percentage of the current audience that seem completely oblivious to how poor last week's episode was- it does not give you confidence for the future of tv drama in general when you have people lapping up such ****e.

Yes you deem it ****e so you must have the correct opinion no need to talk like that about people who enjoyed it

Ferajacka

The premise for this battle was a simple kill the head vampire and the rest will die job. That was the only play they had due to the deads' number advantage.

Does that in itself make for a good story?Probably not.

But it was enjoyable seeing how they achieved it.

donegal_man

It was an okay episode. The scenes with everyone preparing themselves for what was coming were the best for me while the battle scenes were so dark that I found myself fast forwarding through any that didn't feature important story building.
As for the song, beurgh!

OneOfThem Stumbled

DeadHand wrote: »

I think there's a lot of bandwagoning and dog-piling going on over this episode: it's become fashionable to tear it down because it did not quite live up to hype. In my opinion, it was as an episode and spectacle still compelling viewing, somewhere below the Red Wedding, Hardhome and the BoB and above Blackwater and Spoils of War.

Okay so this is going to be my last ever post on the most expensive television episode in history.

I think the battles in hardhome, battle of bastards, watchers on the wall, and spoils of war were all better. Blackwater was overall one of the better episodes in GOT, but the actual battle scenes were not up to the same quality as what was seen in the other ones mentioned here.

Having said all that, it is incredibly impressive what was achieved in the episode last Sunday with the budget they had. They were working with less than half the budget that LOTR's Return of the King had for the equivalent type of battle, and I think the results (other than being too dark) were visually spectacular.

DeadHand wrote: »

People complain that...

Most of the events that took place in the episode don't really make much sense to be honest.

DeadHand wrote: »

Finally, I like Arya killing the Night King.

I think it would be fitting if Arya killed Cersei, as the two have a shared history. Arya spent a whole season running away from Cersei after witnessing her father's murder. That has a real cathartic element to it.

Arya killing the NK feels a bit random, and if that was in keeping with the rest of the episode that would be fine, but instead you have a situation where all the named characters that died only did so in the pursuit of heroic sacrifices, and random chance had no other part to play in the proceedings.

donegal_man wrote: »

As for the song, beurgh!

Most people absolutely loved the climactic music. I personally found it distractingly similar to some computer game... might be one of the Legend of Zelda games... took me out of the moment a bit.

Franz Von Peppercorn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pepper, you can't just dismiss legitimate criticism by branding everyone uber nerds. If my enjoyment of the show is marred by ridiculous writing that jars me from each scene every minute or two, and if there are millions of others who feel the same way, then it is what it is. An entertaining mess that will only be remembered for ruining a decade's build-up.

Your description of what upset you is your own opinion, not that I was responding to you. Of course I can dismiss it. And do you really think that millions agree with you?

I saw a great piece of television. Yes the defense was erratic and ill thought oh but in general what works on the living won’t work on the dead, and armies have been badly led in history.

The only defense they really had was killing the NK which worked. And Arya wasn’t either a Mary Sue or a Deus Ex Machina - she’s been training as an assassin for 3 years. She learned to fight well even while blind, and yet she was overwhelmed by the dead after a while.

On IMDB the episode has a rating of 8.7, and 85% on RT.

noodler

Yet huge numbers of fans have been critical .

I think some of the ten a penny websites eager to exploit the hype wouldn't dare give a negative review.

Reading IGN, who gave it a 9.5, but the review is Uber critical. Make of that what you will.

donegal_man

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

...it is incredibly impressive what was achieved in the episode last Sunday with the budget they had. They were working with less than half the budget that LOTR's Return of the King had for the equivalent type of battle, and I think the results (other than being too dark) were visually spectacular.

There's no doubt every cent can be seen (or not depending on the lighting). Unfortunately a lot of it seemed to be more padding than anything else.

... Most of the events that took place in the episode don't really make much sense to be honest...

Hardly tactical geniuses were they? I did feel the whole "hiding in the crypt" was purely to enable the producers to make the trailer. Although there was no doubt poor old Grey Worm was doomed as soon as he promised to bring Missandei home.

I think it would be fitting if Arya killed Cersei, as the two have a shared history. Arya spent a whole season running away from Cersei after witnessing her father's murder. That has a real cathartic element to it.

My suggestion from another thread

Daenerys becomes increasingly paranoid and unstable leading Jaime to kill her as he did her grandfather, the mad king.
Jon ascends the throne as Aegon VI Targaryen and names Arya his Hand.
Cersei is dragged into the throne room in chains by Brienne 
Arya sees the shade of Ned and quotes Joffrey, "..treason shall never go unpunished" then carries out the execution herself pointing out to Aegon, "she who passes the sentence should swing the sword". Thus the whole story turns full circle.

Arya killing the NK feels a bit random...

I did feel that way although it was sort of foreshadowed by Melisandre and of course her telling Gendry how she was looking forward to seeing the face of death.

Most people absolutely loved the climactic music. I personally found it distractingly similar to some computer game... might be one of the Legend of Zelda games... took me out of the moment a bit.

Exactly this

Classic Game of thrones.. went to absolute sh1t the last two seasons..No one saw that coming.. It was like the red wedding, or when they cut neds head off..

But seriously, I think it's becoming clear that there was a section of the audience watching for the intrigue, and a sizable section watching because there was dragons and gratuitous tits and violence..

Roger Hassenforder

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's worrying that there's a large percentage of the current audience that seem completely oblivious to how poor last week's episode was- it does not give you confidence for the future of tv drama in general when you have people lapping up such ****e.

What a pompous, self important and rude post.

Some people just want to be entertained. Some people thought it was shîte, some thought it was great. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Some people might be of the view it was no bad, those who only considered it poor are themselves fools.

Wailin

Basil3 wrote: »

One thing I've always wondered is what knowledge did the Night King etc have of what exists beyond the wall? Assuming nobody has crossed it in however many years, did they expect that they could cross the wall and wipe out anything in their path because they're almost invincible? How did they know they wouldn't be coming up against hundreds of dragons, for example?

Seriously? It's a fictional tv show based on a fictional book! Seriously people, cop on.

Wailin

Wailin wrote: »

Seriously? It's a fictional tv show based on a fictional book! Seriously people, cop on.

I really don't think it's wise to mock someone asking legitimate questions about a fictional plot.

"Oh, you're thinking about it. Cop on."


There used to be loads of dragons a couple of centuries before. Does the NK know that? It's an interesting question, not to you obviously, but to others it is.

Assetbacked

Blazer wrote: »

The books man...the books.. where do you think GoT came from?
Martins has only written is it 6 books and the writers had to divulge from what he had originally intended.

This isn't the book thread though, take it to the other one.

Assetbacked

biggebruv wrote: »

100% agree with this. People are treating this like the show is actually over when we have 4hours worth of thrones left to go 2 full length movies essentially who knows what will happen

The epilogue as far as I'm concerned. Business as usual between warring families. The main story was the night king and this has come to the end. They could easily end it now as the throne will always be fought over given human nature.

J. Marston

And only one of those books were released in the last 13/14 years.

People like to claim "Dumb and Dumber" as they cleverly call the producers don't know what they're doing. Well George himself is a whole different level of lost.

DeadHand

I think it’s hinted strongly all along that the NK has powers similar to the Three Eyed Raven.

Not such a leap to imagine that an inherently magical being capable of raising the dead would have powers of prophecy and telepathy sufficient to sense the general state of affairs in the lands of the living.

He did attack at a strategically opportune time: when the Night’s Watch was weak and Westeros was tearing itself apart in various wars.

no.8

'Dry your eyes mate'

They really are some childish complaints going on here. Tell us please.... How in the hell the NK should have been defeated (if at all)?

Personally thought it might have been class to see the NK vs. The mountain 2.0 but it was just a top Trump card wish. Many screenwriters here believe they know better of course

biggebruv

Assetbacked wrote: »

The epilogue as far as I'm concerned. Business as usual between warring families. The main story was the night king and this has come to the end. They could easily end it now as the throne will always be fought over given human nature.

And yet there’s people who complain it’s gone to far into fantasy and now for the last 3 episodes it’s possibly getting back to a more grounded level and now there’s people complaining there’s really no winning people will complain no matter what the output was of the shows final season

nix

biggebruv wrote: »

And yet there’s people who complain it’s gone to far into fantasy and now for the last 3 episodes it’s possibly getting back to a more grounded level and now there’s people complaining there’s really no winning people will complain no matter what the output was of the shows final season

Nah, i think if it was better, less people would be complaining, like take the first few seasons, a lot less people complaining back then :)

ednwireland

just watched it worst episode of the series for me - no real story, only saving grace was arya killing the night king

just way too dark as well made the fire scenes good

biggebruv

nix wrote: »

Nah, i think if it was better, less people would be complaining, like take the first few seasons, a lot less people complaining back then :)

But there’s also a hell of alot more watching nowadays more eyeballs more complaining lol

Chris_Heilong

The only way to keep this interesting at this stage is to kill Arya in the next episode, now that will be something to subvert my expectations.

Lackey

lawred2 wrote: »

This is where I am. Wondering what's left. And what the motivation will be for any of the main characters from here

With the culmination of how many years' buildup to this battle of the dead done with only half the series complete one has to wonder what on earth the writers have decided should be the central theme of this final season!? It's intriguing anyway.

The central theme has always been the Iron Throne.
Despite Jon trying to make it about the long night, Dannerys, Cersi, and everyone one else have either been all about ruling the 7 kingdoms or got dragged into the drama about ruling the 7 kingdoms.
The show is called ‘The game of Thrones’

I don’t know who will sit on the throne, but I think it will mirror the first episodes, showing nothing changes.

In the Game of Thrones you win or you die.

rossie1977

facehugger99 wrote: »

I think the 'Beyond the Wall' episode from last season was where the shark got jumped for a lot of people. Last weeks episode just confirmed for me that we're going with nonsense fan-service over smart writing.

Show jumped shark when Jon Snow was brought back to life. Everything involving him has been totally ridiculous since then. He is unkillable at this stage.

Mokuba

Lackey wrote: »

The central theme has always been the Iron Throne.
Despite Jon trying to make it about the long night, Dannerys, Cersi, and everyone one else have either been all about ruling the 7 kingdoms or got dragged into the drama about ruling the 7 kingdoms.
The show is called ‘The game of Thrones’

I don’t know who will sit on the throne, but I think it will mirror the first episodes, showing nothing changes.

In the Game of Thrones you win or you die.

The show is based on the book series, A Song of Ice and Fire. Ice and Fire. A Game of Thrones is the title of the first book and Dan and Dave thought it was a better name for the show. That's it. No other explanation. No other motive. No long term planning. Nothing.

The opening scene of the show is the White Walkers. Throughout the show we are repeatedly told, by Jon and by any character that interacts with the dead that the THRONE DOES NOT MATTER. All of the politics, the scheming, the backstabbing is irrelevant because once the dead arrive it will not matter. They do not care who will be sitting on the Iron Throne.

Despite Jon trying to make it about the long night

What in the absolute f**k are you talking about here. Nobody else knew about the dead so why would they have been bloody interested in them? Why would Dany have been interested in the dead from a different continent. As soon as anybody found out about their existance they treated them as the threat they were and THE MAIN PRIORITY.

It has constantly been hinted at, alluded to and even bloody shown in Danys visions in Season 2 that the Throne will be of little importance after the dead are through with everyone. But no, the threat that we have been building up as the main threat from the first scene in the first episode lost in one night. They were defeated in one episode of 70. They were built up as a threat for 69 episodes, and it took 1 episode to defeat them.

What do we say to the people who continue to spout utter nonsense in this thread to defend this rubbish? Not today.

Lackey

Calm down ..you are about to give yourself a heart attack !
I can hear the echo of you banging on the key board last night from here lol.

This is the non book readers thread
But Youll be a long time waiting on GRRM to prove you right, I can’t see Winds being published any time soon and A Dream of Spring....forget about it.

Cersi enteracted with the dead...and didn’t give a sh!te...she’s all about the throne.

biggebruv

Mokuba wrote: »

The show is based on the book series, A Song of Ice and Fire. Ice and Fire. A Game of Thrones is the title of the first book and Dan and Dave thought it was a better name for the show. That's it. No other explanation. No other motive. No long term planning. Nothing.

The opening scene of the show is the White Walkers. Throughout the show we are repeatedly told, by Jon and by any character that interacts with the dead that the THRONE DOES NOT MATTER. All of the politics, the scheming, the backstabbing is irrelevant because once the dead arrive it will not matter. They do not care who will be sitting on the Iron Throne.



What in the absolute f**k are you talking about here. Nobody else knew about the dead so why would they have been bloody interested in them? Why would Dany have been interested in the dead from a different continent. As soon as anybody found out about their existance they treated them as the threat they were and THE MAIN PRIORITY.

It has constantly been hinted at, alluded to and even bloody shown in Danys visions in Season 2 that the Throne will be of little importance after the dead are through with everyone. But no, the threat that we have been building up as the main threat from the first scene in the first episode lost in one night. They were defeated in one episode of 70. They were built up as a threat for 69 episodes, and it took 1 episode to defeat them.

What do we say to the people who continue to spout utter nonsense in this thread to defend this rubbish? Not today.

Ok but how do you continue the show and keep the white walkers as there were going hanging around for more than one episode?
You can’t because everyone would be dead if everyone is dead we have no show if they saved this episode for the actual finale it would suck because characters don’t have time to breathe and talk during a big battle

If the wall was still up at this stage in the series people would be complaining about that

ogsjw

Alt Shift X goes in on the stupid strategies used at the start of his episode breakdown this week.

derfderf

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Your description of what upset you is your own opinion, not that I was responding to you. Of course I can dismiss it. And do you really think that millions agree with you?

I saw a great piece of television. Yes the defense was erratic and ill thought oh but in general what works on the living won’t work on the dead, and armies have been badly led in history.

The only defense they really had was killing the NK which worked. And Arya wasn’t either a Mary Sue or a Deus Ex Machina - she’s been training as an assassin for 3 years. She learned to fight well even while blind, and yet she was overwhelmed by the dead after a while.

On IMDB the episode has a rating of 8.7, and 85% on RT.

73% on rotten tomatoes, the second lowest rated episode. The lowest rated is the episode where Ramsey rapes Sansa, and that's why it's lower.
If you don't think that episode was full on fan fiction, remember a 10 year old girl killed an undead giant while she was being crushed.

Wailin

According to imdb the highest rated episodes where Battle of the Bastards and Winds of Winter, both rated 9.9. Probably my favourite episodes of the series and totally agree with the rating. This is currently at 8.6 but dropping, lowest rated episode of GoT is 8.1 so it's close to being the worst. Well deserved, they made a bollocks of the show this season, can't believe we waited 2 yrs for this.

mr_cochise

I love the way people complain how they waited 2 years for this as if they were just sitting around, lives on hold, maybe drinking some tea.
The reality, we all got on with our lives and occasionally spoke about it. Then, after 2 years, we turned on the tv just like we do most evenings and watched some television. That is all we did...we watched some television!!
Bloody good television!!!

biggebruv

If you look at the actual episode reviews on rotten tomatoes the amount season 8 has is a lot higher than the season 6 episodes like battle of the bastards has a Total or 63 reviews

The long night has 98 of which 72 are positive that’s not bad at all for what a lot of people are saying has destroyed GOT lol

Amazing how the number of reviewers has shot up since season 7 aswell

Tikki Wang Wang

It’s all gone like the Walking Dead.

ogsjw

Tikki Wang Wang wrote: »

It’s all gone like the Walking Dead.

Maybe it's just the undead are bad luck...

Wailin

mr_cochise wrote: »

I love the way people complain how they waited 2 years for this as if they were just sitting around, lives on hold, maybe drinking some tea.
The reality, we all got on with our lives and occasionally spoke about it. Then, after 2 years, we turned on the tv just like we do most evenings and watched some television. That is all we did...we watched some television!!
Bloody good television!!!

What i meant was they had two years to work on this show and give it the finish it deserves. So far, first three episodes have been well below par.

biggebruv

Wailin wrote: »

What i meant was they had two years to work on this show and give it the finish it deserves. So far, first three episodes have been well below par.

It was 1year 8months btw not 2 full years with a show like this once scripts are locked in the beginning it would be very hard to change anything later down the road like say breaking bad or such the show has too many elements in planning and production stages

You didn’t like them fair enough but a lot of work went into these episodes you cannot deny that just look at the making of vids on the YouTube channel

Mokuba

biggebruv wrote: »

It was 1year 8months btw not 2 full years with a show like this once scripts are locked in the beginning it would be very hard to change anything later down the road like say breaking bad or such the show has too many elements in planning and production stages

You didn’t like them fair enough but a lot of work went into these episodes you cannot deny that just look at the making of vids on the YouTube channel

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-36934888

They made that announcement in July 2016. You can presume that the writers knew for a while before they made the public announcement.

It was 1year 8months btw not 2 full years

:rolleyes:

but a lot of work went into these episodes you cannot deny that just look at the making of vids on the YouTube channel

I didn't realise we were supposed to appreciate things based on the behind the scenes work, rather than the finished product that the viewer is shown. Let me re-evaluate how I judge films and television.

All those videos show is how obsessed Dan and Dave became with visuals and shocks. Everything is about creating the next visual for some idiots in a bar to #woooooo at.

CalamariFritti

Late to the game. Was away all week and difficult to avoid spoilers, but we did avoid them and watched The Long Night last night.

Only thing I heard of was complaints about the darkness, but I didn't mind the darkness. Its night time, the Night King isn't going to attack at half 9 in the morning.

There were one or two small weaknesses, Most of them being the battle a little too much drawn out in general and in particular in terms of our hero characters. I thought that was pandering to the audience and the tv drama necessities a little. Like almost every living sole is gone from the sheer onslaught, but of course our guys are still hangin in somewhere. Even though they're literally with their backs against the walls for the last ten minutes and we've seen them being hopelessly crowded twice already, too. GoT had been much more ruthless than that in the past.

Other than that it was fantastic I thought. Especially the dragon scenes were spectacular. Really brilliant, there wasn't a word spoken in the room for the whole thing.

biggebruv

Mokuba wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-36934888

They made that announcement in July 2016. You can presume that the writers knew for a while before they made the public announcement.



:rolleyes:



I didn't realise we were supposed to appreciate things based on the behind the scenes work, rather than the finished product that the viewer is shown. Let me re-evaluate how I judge films and television.

All those videos show is how obsessed Dan and Dave became with visuals and shocks. Everything is about creating the next visual for some idiots in a bar to #woooooo at.

I’m not saying that’s how you should evaluate these episodes I’m just saying to the other poster the delay was to help the production side of things for the show not for planning it’s story and chill out btw