"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

Ficheall

Meh.

Washout

ricero wrote: »

Can't believe they ****ed up the night king arc which to me was to whole focal point of the show since the opening of season 1

the night king was a distraction to what is the focal point. which is who actually will sit on the throne.

I couldn't see any way the night king surviving this episode for the simple fact that if he won the battle of Winterfell and marched on Kings landing. who or what was going to stop him from completing his objective of ridding the world of all life.

Washout

Washout wrote: »

the night king was a distraction to what is the focal point. which is who actually will sit on the throne.

I couldn't see any way the night king surviving this episode for the simple fact that if he won the battle of Winterfell and marched on Kings landing. who or what was going to stop him from completing his objective of ridding the world of all life.

That's a plausible outcome though, so it could have happened.

Paddy Cow

Paddy Cow wrote: »

You can tell by the looks on their faces as the Dothraki swords are extinguished that that's the last thing they were expecting. They were all hardened soliders and you could see them starting to panic. I felt their panic! I thought it was a great scene.

Yeah I completely agree. One of the best moments of the episode. It was a silly tactic in hindsight. Of all the complaints about the episode, this is not one for me. The characters make mistakes.

LastLagoon

We should just count ourselves luck that the writers didn’t throw in some top gun style “hit the brakes, he’ll fly right by “ ****e in the dragon dogfight, or maybe they did and we just couldn’t make it out.

ricero

Washout wrote: »

the night king was a distraction to what is the focal point. which is who actually will sit on the throne.

I couldn't see any way the night king surviving this episode for the simple fact that if he won the battle of Winterfell and marched on Kings landing. who or what was going to stop him from completing his objective of ridding the world of all life.

I honestly couldn't care about that for me it was all about the night king which is more important than who is the king or queen.

Also so many questions not answered about the night king. Disappointing end to a fantastic and well built plot.

GSPfan

martyos121 wrote: »

These sort of posts are the absolute worst.

“I didn’t like it so nobody else should. Also, you’re watching TV wrong.”

That’s pretty much what you said.

I don’t give a shiny fcuk about any flaws in the editing or writing of a major battle episode, I’ve been following the show for years to build up towards a climax like that, and halfway into the final season it arrives. At some point, development needs to slow down and shît needs to happen. You can nitpick all you want, that episode delivered for me and literally everyone else I’ve been messaging in the last hour. You’re entitled to not like it, but the part in bold is just utterly obnoxious and pointless.

First off, how dare you talk to me like....,..,

Only joking. I apologise if I came across as if I was being a díck, it was meant to be a light hearted comment. I actually meant what I said that I’ve become so critical of tv/movies that when I see obvious flaws it takes me out of the experience. I also would like to swap eye sight with whoever could see what was going on.

It was still a badly produced episode in my opinion and I think they blew it in terms of creating a truly brilliant piece of tv history. I think they could go back and re-edit that into a brilliant episode because it has all the ingredients but whoever put it together in that order and in that quantity got it wrong.

lol from Reddit:

What do we say to the God of Depth? Not today.

Exclamation Marc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah I completely agree. One of the best moments of the episode. It was a silly tactic in hindsight. Of all the complaints about the episode, this is not one for me. The characters make mistakes.

Agreed. I think as well that the Night King made a couple of tactical mistakes, most notably taking too long to raise the dead. If he did it long before Jon was charging him down, its arguable they'd have destroyed the living with the significant additions to their numbers.

cian68

Really liked the episode but I will say that the reason I was on the edge of my seat as the night king approached Bran is because I thought we might learn some new info. Will the Night King talk, will we learn more about what he wants? so when he died I definitely felt a bit like 'oh, guess that is that'

Theboinkmaster

Ficheall wrote: »

Meh.

Exactly my reaction to episode - very underwhelming.

GSPfan

Things they could have done to improve that episode......

1. Improve the lighting. As soon as everything went on fire the place should have been a lot brighter and realism would have been maintained. Snow on the ground also makes any area brighter even under moonlight.

2. Allow the battle to look somewhat winnable at the start with tactics and troop movements winning out over mindless zombies rushing at the walls. Allow the dead to advance slowly toward Winterfell as the episode progresses with all main characters retreating as they slowly lose ground.

3. The cat and mouse dragon chase was good. It kept them busy somewhat but maybe they could have had one of the dragons chase the night king and one scorching the dead to help thin out the enemy forces to manageable levels.

4. Allow the dead inside the walls eventually and have a more manageable amount attack our favourite characters. This shows that there is a chance of winning this but they are still coming.

5. Allow the night king to get within killing distance of Brann after taking out a few of our heroes and have him share some dialogue (even if it’s just Brann talking) to allow us to understand his motivations a bit better.

6. Have Arya appear disguised as a zombie and have the night king confused until she stabs him. Takes off the mask to reveal herself and all the zombies die just when our remaining heroes are starting to look like they are doomed.

brianblaze

GSPfan wrote: »

Things they could have done to improve that episode......

2. Allow the battle to look somewhat winnable at the start with tactics and troop movements winning out over mindless zombies rushing at the walls. Allow the dead to advance slowly toward Winterfell as the episode progresses with all main characters retreating as they slowly lose ground.

6. Have Arya appear disguised as a zombie and have the night king confused until she stabs him. Takes off the mask to reveal herself and all the zombies die just when our remaining heroes are starting to look like they are doomed.

2. I loved the hopelessness of it, the inevitability of the army of the undead. It was like when Jon was swamped at the Battle of the Bastards. Perfect tonality IMO.

6. The dude that knew that a flock of birds were Bran would probably see through a disguise easily enough

Utopia Parkway

I certainly enjoyed it anyway. The first 30 minutes it was pretty dark and sometimes confusing alright but once they lit the fire trench it was fine for the last hour. The last 30 minutes was tremendous. They did a great job building the tension early on with long sections with very little dialogue.

And a special shout out to the score which was absolutely fantastic especially towards the end.

I think some feel cheated that more big characters didn't die but of course there is still the battle with Cersei to come so a strong possibility that a few more characters will not make it to the end yet.

Hulk Hands

Jorah's big claim trying to sell himself to the slave master when him and Tyrion were captured was that he beat a single Dothraki in open combat, implied to be a huge feat. Yet we see the entire Dothraki army wiped out in seconds, while Jorah, or even characters like Sam, Dany etc with no combat history fighting off dozens of wights in the same episode. The extinguishing lights of the Dothrakis does set the tension but it made no sense tactically or in overall ability terms.

I get that it's hard to have a main character killed by some generic skeleton, but they pushed it a bit far with the vast majority surviving. Having say, Sam, fight bravely but just get overrun by numbers of wights and fall is an acceptable way to go imo

GSPfan

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I certainly enjoyed it anyway. The first 30 minutes it was pretty dark and sometimes confusing alright but once they lit the fire trench it was fine for the last hour. The last 30 minutes was tremendous. They did a great job building the tension early on with long sections with very little dialogue.

And a special shout out to the score which was absolutely fantastic especially towards the end.

I think some feel cheated that more big characters didn't die but of course there is still the battle with Cersei to come so a strong possibility that a few more characters will not make it to the end yet.

The score was the best part of the episode. That bit with the Night King walking up to Brann was amazing. It’s on youtube, season 8 soundtrack called The Night King.

I think they prepared us to have a good lot of them die and the battle was an absolute failure from the good guys perspective so it is just strange to see so few people left alive and almost all of them are our main characters.
I’m alright with them surviving but they kind of tricked us there and it wasn’t relief people felt, it was more like disappointment.

Bonzo Delaney

podgemonster wrote: »

I can see it now.

Sandor: Well brother its just you and me
Mountain: Grrrrr
Sandor: I've waited for this all my li....

*Arya jumps out, stabs Mountain in the neck, job done.

To which The Hound shouts out " will you ever just **** off ya wee sneaky **** ya!!!!"

RobertKK

It was a very dark episode, some of the stuff was happening so fast it was hard to see.

The Night King being a targaryen was a surprise.

homerun_homer

GSPfan wrote: »

Things they could have done to improve that episode......

6. Have Arya appear disguised as a zombie and have the night king confused until she stabs him. Takes off the mask to reveal herself and all the zombies die just when our remaining heroes are starting to look like they are doomed.

She wouldn't be able to get one of their faces. Stabbing a Wight Walker with dragonglass and valerian steel disintegrates them. Trying to take it's face as it is the living dead is getting too close and it would probably be able to turn her to a wight in the process.

castletownman

The best way to sum up my thoughts of the episode is to quote the two most common lines I uttered throughout:

"Focking hell"

"Ah be the lord"

I can understand some of the complaints, but I thought it was amazing. As visually outstanding as any thing produced in any medium. The use of the piano score and very little dialogue in the final fifteen minutes or so really captured the tension and was a brilliant use of music. I genuinely found myself on my knees dumbstruck when Ayra revealed herself at the end, and the fact it was tied in with Jorah's heroics right to the end was an emotional headwreck. Theon's redemption and his tears knowing he probably wasn't going to kill the NK was lovely as well.

God I will miss this show.

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

It was a very dark episode, some of the stuff was happening so fast it was hard to see.

The Night King being a targaryen was a surprise.

There is nothing to really suggest that. The Targaryans came a few hundred years ago. Sure, maybe people from Valyria came 8000 years ago but it's a stretch, and not everyone from Valyria is immune to fire.

Exclamation Marc

Theon's absolution was wonderful.

His protection til the end of Bran and the acknowledgement of him being a good man was heartbreaking as was his inevitable death rush at the Night King.

If you take the character arcs of the more major players who died, they really were finished out wonderfully and speaks to the incredible writing of the show.

Exclamation Marc

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

I guarantee you that I'm not. It's fantasy or it's not. You can't say that something is fantasy up to a point and then when one thing strays a bit further that it's unrealistic. It's only unrealistic to someone because they've sat yourself within the boundaries that they believed were there.

So would you have any issue if Cersi killed off her enemies using laser beams coming out of her eyes? The line has to be drawn somewhere. Usually the line is drawn by the rules established by the source material itself. Some people feel these rules have been broken. I'm not even sure what the original point of that other poster was, but I just hate the argument of "its all fantasy anyway, so anything can happen".

homerun_homer

homerun_homer wrote: »

She wouldn't be able to get one of their faces. Stabbing a Wight Walker with dragonglass and valerian steel disintegrates them. Trying to take it's face as it is the living dead is getting too close and it would probably be able to turn her to a wight in the process.

The poster was saying wight, not white walker.

GSPfan

homerun_homer wrote: »

She wouldn't be able to get one of their faces. Stabbing a Wight Walker with dragonglass and valerian steel disintegrates them. Trying to take it's face as it is the living dead is getting too close and it would probably be able to turn her to a wight in the process.

No no no no. The long haired lads on the horses disintegrate but the normal zombies (dead people) just die. Arya stabbed one in the hallway up through the bottom of the jaw earlier in the episode in a very deliberate scene so I was wondering at that stage if she was going to take her face.

I’m not too critical of the final Arya scene apart from the apparent Randy Orton type levels of stealth. With the score in full flow and her doing the dagger drop it was very satisfying for it to be her.

normanoffside

normanoffside wrote: »

I thought she was the whitwalker behind the NK to the left as you looked at the screen.

don't think so. one of the generals noticed something because there was a breeze / air disturbance which meant to me Ayra running past quickly or jumping down from a height or something like that that.

that was also how the night king knew to turn around and grab Ayra - some sort of hive mind thing that the night king has going on.

was a bit of a cheap solution really - she literally came out of nowhere.

the dagger drop and catch and the sideways eyeball movement of realisation of the night king was well done tho.

leggo

A lot of people, as usual with these things, are criticising it because it’s not what they expected, rather than what it was. Like while I get the disappointment that can bring, it’s kinda like saying a 4-4 football match was poor because you expected two good defences: the nit your picking is with your expectations not being met, nothing to do with the quality or lack thereof of the content itself. And that’s a total fallacy if you’re going to come on here and stake your word on this being a ‘bad’ episode, though I also acknowledge the feelings can be real sometimes. I give myself an adjustment period to process, and let go of my own hopes so I can judge it on its own merits, whenever something like this happens before I start typing.

There was one moment in it I didn’t enjoy: when Lyanna killed the giant. That came across as too Disney. When the giant was squeezing the life out of her, I thought “Wow they’re gonna Oberyn Lyanna, ballsy!” Then she conveniently took it down at the death. It was a bit too fan servicey for my liking, though at least she didn’t survive that and they made up for it by making her a wight later.

I didn’t expect the NK storyline to end here, I came on both here and the GoT podcast I do and said as much. But I’m also not going to criticise a show for not doing what I think it should do. If I could write this stuff, I would. But I can’t, so I watch and hope the writers come up with better than what I have in mind. I’ll give them a chance to round things off their way before making my mind up on that.

I LOVE Arya as Azor Ahai. Never saw it coming but man...it was all there for us. From as early as S3 with Melisandre telling her she’ll shut “green eyes, blue eyes, brown eyes”, to last season them seeding her quick hand swap shimmy while training with Brienne. It’s so perfect and I laughed so much that Jon didn’t get to be the hero. It fits perfectly with the whole notion that prophecies never pan out as we expect them: people are acting Billy Big Balls online today acting like they saw it coming. I didn’t see that predicted anywhere beforehand. But it works.

Fine with who did/didn’t die. If the NK battle is over and we’ve three episodes to deal with Cersei/Jon/Dany and who’ll sit on the Iron Throne, we need some big deaths left and we got plenty here.

I’ll have more thoughts no doubt. Still processing.

GSPfan

Arya was screaming as she flew through the air. The Night King didn’t need eyes in the back of his head, just ears.

golfball37

The episode was dark and full of errors!

brianblaze

Question now is, with the Night King dead, is the land beyond the wall now in Spring? Winter is over, has the North now expanded into more lush pastures?

The whole thing has just descended into Disney/marvel tackiness..
At this stage I just want it to finish,..

brianblaze

Deleted User wrote: »

The whole thing has just descended into Disney/marvel tackiness..
At this stage I just want it to finish,..

It's a fantasy show, that's how they always go!

leggo, Arya isn't azor ahai. They said they decided three years ago that she'd be the one to do it, basically as no one would expect it.

She doesn't fulfill the prophesy at all. The writers don't care about lore.

homerun_homer

GSPfan wrote: »

I’m not too critical of the final Arya scene apart from the apparent Randy Orton type levels of stealth. With the score in full flow and her doing the dagger drop it was very satisfying for it to be her.

That can be chalked down to everything she learned from the Faceless men. Sure she was sneaking from under the tables without a peep. The blood drips from her face being louder than her movements.

Exclamation Marc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So would you have any issue if Cersi killed off her enemies using laser beams coming out of her eyes? The line has to be drawn somewhere. Usually the line is drawn by the rules established by the source material itself. Some people feel these rules have been broken. I'm not even sure what the original point of that other poster was, but I just hate the argument of "its all fantasy anyway, so anything can happen".

Well that's absolutely stupid and the suggestion is clearly idiotic at very best. Id hardly equate Sam surviving, Jorah getting around the field, the dothraki being overpowered and the crypt not being completely obliterated with lasers out of someones eyes. Jesus, you're embarrassing yourself with that logic.

I never said 'anything can happen'. Best read what you're referring to in future.

leggo

GSPfan wrote: »

Arya was screaming as she flew through the air. The Night King didn’t need eyes in the back of his head, just ears.

Yeah, he caught her.

brianblaze

brianblaze wrote: »

It's a fantasy show, that's how they always go!

If the books are finished, and it's inevitably remade, it won't turn into this Marvel type stuff.

Also yes I'm sure that the darkness had something to do with budget. It was too much. I be like



in fairness, it could have been a lot worse - thanks to this lady for most of the lighting

*Groan*..Euron Greyjoy.. just when you think it can't get any worse..

mrkiscool2

brianblaze wrote: »

Question now is, with the Night King dead, is the land beyond the wall now in Spring? Winter is over, has the North now expanded into more lush pastures?

No, the last Winter with the dead was called The Long Night, the name of this episode. There have been numerous Winters between then and this. So, it's not the end of Winter just because the Night King is dead.

MisterAnarchy

ERG89 wrote: »

Euron Greyjoy and Cersei Lannister are characters I've not missed when not featured in the last few weeks

Agreed ,up to the start of this season I thought the final villain would be the Night King but as soon as this 3rd episode was billed as the big battle for Winterfell it was pretty obvious that the Night King was going to be taken out to leave the last 3 episodes deal with the battle for the Iron throne.

Cersei is a 1 dimensional character I never liked and frankly has lasted about 5 series too many.

Necro

glasso wrote:

Also yes I'm sure that the darkness had something to do with budget. It was too much. I be like

The darkness was clearly there because the battle took place:

A: at night

B: during winter

C: during an ice storm as it progresses.


Why do people not get this? If they made it bright and summery there would actually be more room for complaint tbh.

Exclamation Marc

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Well that's absolutely stupid and the suggestion is clearly idiotic at very best. Id hardly equate Sam surviving, Jorah getting around the field, the dothraki being overpowered and the crypt not being completely obliterated with lasers out of someones eyes. Jesus, you're embarrassing yourself with that logic.

I never said 'anything can happen'. Best read what you're referring to in future.

Its an extreme extension of what people are complaining about. Jon taking on and surviving 100+ undead around him is idiotic at the very best imo.


By and large, I did enjoy the episode but its not without its glaring flaws that some people are happy to ignore, and more power to them. I do try but I wish little thing didn't bother me so much.

RollieFingers

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Agreed ,up to the start of this season I thought the final villain would be the Night King but as soon as this 3rd episode was billed as the big battle for Winterfell it was pretty obvious that the Night King was going to be taken out to leave the last 3 episodes deal with the battle for the Iron throne.

Cersei is a 1 dimensional character I never liked and frankly has lasted about 5 series too many.

Cersei is the best character left in the show.

Where Ayra showed some dagga hand-swap skillz before


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mWKRXV7gFk&feature=youtu.be&t=165

GSPfan

leggo wrote: »

A lot of people, as usual with these things, are criticising it because it’s not what they expected, rather than what it was. Like while I get the disappointment that can bring, it’s kinda like saying a 4-4 football match was poor because you expected two good defences: the nit your picking is with your expectations not being met, nothing to do with the quality or lack thereof of the content itself. And that’s a total fallacy if you’re going to come on here and stake your word on this being a ‘bad’ episode, though I also acknowledge the feelings can be real sometimes. I give myself an adjustment period to process, and let go of my own hopes so I can judge it on its own merits, whenever something like this happens before I start typing.

The expectations are set by the standard of the show up to now. I haven’t seen anyone criticising it against other shows, it’s criticised on the quality it has already produced and based on the previous episode allowing us all to have one last look at all our favourite characters before they kill half of them off. Which they didn’t.

Your analogy to a football match is a fun one though. Let me turn it around and give the example that you went to see a football match between Barcelona and Real Madrid expecting the worlds best players going toe to toe and instead you had a floodlight failure and the referee scoring the winner.

mrkiscool2

Deleted User wrote: »

Its an extreme extension of what people are complaining about. Jon taking on and surviving 100+ undead around him is idiotic at the very best imo.


By and large, I did enjoy the episode but its not without its glaring flaws that some people are happy to ignore, and more power to them. I do try but I wish little thing didn't bother me so much.

He didn't though? Like, when the Night King raised the dead, it was only a few moments until Drogon and Dany saved him? Then he was running towards the Godswood rather than fighting, just stabbing and killing when he had to. Hell, he even shut a gate behind him to stop himself being overrun. Of all the things that could be seen as bad and poor, this isn't one of them.

Necro

GSPfan wrote:

The expectations are set by the standard of the show up to now. I haven’t seen anyone criticising it against other shows, it’s criticised on the quality it has already produced and based on the previous episode allowing us all to have one last look at all our favourite characters before they kill half of them off. Which they didn’t.

They killed off 6 characters, do you want the last three episodes to be extras wandering around aimlessly or something?

Decent episode overall but I can't shake this slightly disappointed feeling. Is that it for the Night King? GoT really missed a brilliant opportunity for some great drama by not turning a main character in this battle and having another tightly knit main character coming face to face with them. Could you imagine Brienne trying to fight off a wight Jaime?! I can't believe they squandered that opportunity. I thought at the very least we'd see Jorah having to strike down Lyanna Mormont or one of the night's watch having to stop Eddison.


That said, I was in a rage when Ned Stark was killed off. So I should probably be used to getting subverted at this stage.

Necro

Necro wrote: »

The darkness was clearly there because the battle took place:

A: at night

B: during winter

C: during an ice storm as it progresses.


Why do people not get this? If they made it bright and summery there would actually be more room for complaint tbh.

captain obvious there.

we are talking about the resultant print, not the setting, which is not unlike a cinema cam copy at times.