Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Bazzo

awec wrote: »

The reason he's behind Conan and Doris, and is just a "good" 8, is because he doesn't bring enough grunt.

He's a highlights reel player.

Very very harsh. Deegan is a serious prospect and would add big value to any province's squad.

Buer

Deegan is a good player but he doesn't have the steel of others in the Leinster back row. He can have an impact at the breakdown and Leinster have played him at openside previously when stuck but it's not his area of expertise.

He'd be a good signing for Ulster but certainly not a similar player to Coetzee. He's like a better version of Nick Timoney. Ulster would need to partner him with flankers who do the work at speeding/slowing rucks.

launish116

Buer wrote: »

He'd be a good signing for Ulster but certainly not a similar player to Coetzee.He's like a better version of Nick Timoney. Ulster would need to partner him with flankers who do the work at speeding/slowing rucks.

Think the debate started over what IQ players could potentially slot in the instance Coetzee departed. Issue being no one will ever fill that hole and there is no other IQ players at international level floating about. Deegan is probably the closest thing we could pillage to a number 8.

Secondly after watching the likes of Coombes, both Wycherleys & Casey tonight I do fear we’ve been leap frogged by Munster again (really seem to getting their act together). We are behind in the squad progression and second half of the season really need to get the academy firing at senior level.

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Secondly after watching the likes of Coombes, both Wycherleys & Casey tonight I do fear we’ve been leap frogged by Munster again (really seem to getting their act together). We are behind in the squad progression and second half of the season really need to get the academy firing at senior level.

Nah. O'Sullivan, O'Toole, Baloucoune, Moore, Hume, Lowry. EOS capped, O'Toole probably would have been in Six Nations but for Covid and injury, Baloucoune possibly as well.

Let's not get carried away with the inferiority complex.

awec

We'd beat Munster in a proper game.

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Let's not get carried away with the inferiority complex.

Maybe I jumped the gun there! Your rational is sound! But maybe more so the green eyed monster.

Think the Irony is we’re really hoping for an academy loosehead, 2nd row, back row , scrum half to push on. Munster literally just fulfilled that in Coombes, both Wycherleys and Casey in tonight’s euro game.

Ulster v Munster on the 2nd Jan gonna be a good game.

bilston

launish116 wrote: »

Think the debate started over what IQ players could potentially slot in the instance Coetzee departed. Issue being no one will ever fill that hole and there is no other IQ players at international level floating about. Deegan is probably the closest thing we could pillage to a number 8.

Secondly after watching the likes of Coombes, both Wycherleys & Casey tonight I do fear we’ve been leap frogged by Munster again (really seem to getting their act together). We are behind in the squad progression and second half of the season really need to get the academy firing at senior level.

The Munster young guns performed very well against the mighty Quins!

On a serious note, Healy looks a composed fella and has a bright future, but Coombes and Casey in particular will win a lot of caps for Ireland.

But I can think of four young Ulster players that I believe will as well, and three of them are forwards!!

launish116

bilston wrote: »

On a serious note, Healy looks a composed fella and has a bright future, but Coombes and Casey in particular will win a lot of caps for Ireland.

But I can think of four young Ulster players that I believe will as well, and three of them are forwards!!

Indeed would expect to see them play against us, impressed with all three. We could only dream of a lump of a player like Coombes coming through.

arsebiscuits1

Bizarre take on Deegan to be honest. Ulster play off 10 and wide so often that having players with the handling and carrying skills of Deegan would be much more valuable even if the "grunt work" is lacking - something I fundamentally disagree with.

Similar argument plagued Heaslip throughout his career in fairness. Just an armchair take by armchair fans :pac:

Incidentally Coetzee is no angel regarding his breakdown work. Frequent flyer of making the wrong decision or inaccurate with his entry. Given his world class moniker (something that he emphatically is) I would expect to see him more consistent in his breakdown work

arsebiscuits1

How do people feel Madigan got on on Friday? I haven't scrutinised the game but I thought he was excellent especially given the conditions.

Delighted to see him performing in Europe again.

His physicality was always an under rated part of his game but I really feel he has put himself about these last 2 games especially.

Buer

If Ulster want a very promising forward who will add power to their pack, they could do a hell of a lot worse than Josh Murphy. He's big enough to cover second row in a pinch and has added a solid carrying element to his game. He's very much a replica of Kevin McLaughlin i.e. capable of European level but unlikely to be ever missing for test windows frequently given the options Ireland have in the back row.

salmocab

awec wrote: »

I don't think Deegan is head and shoulders above either, he just benefits from a lot more hype because of the whole Leinster school thing.

He’s a an international who was u20 player of the tournament in the u20 World Cup a few years ago. I don’t think it’s anything to do with school.

Utah_Saint

launish116 wrote: »

Indeed would expect to see them play against us, impressed with all three. We could only dream of a lump of a player like Coombes coming through.

I have to agree on your earlier assessments. Although the Academy is improving we are still not producing Forwards of the required quality.

Edit: We never had problems developing backs

bayern

Basically if Ulster want a better pack, go recruit more players from Leinster.

Utah_Saint

bayern wrote: »

Basically if Ulster want a better pack, go recruit more players from Leinster.

thats pretty much the way it feels. Pick up players who missed out on Leinster Academy places or players who have fallen out of favour.

I am grateful those players took a chance and came north but I would just like to see a player come through the system (end to end) like we do with the backs.

thomond2006

Utah_Saint wrote: »

thats pretty much the way it feels. Pick up players who missed out on Leinster Academy places or players who have fallen out of favour.

I am grateful those players took a chance and came north but I would just like to see a player come through the system (end to end) like we do with the backs.

Wind up the Leinster zealots I say. Keep up the poaching Ulster!

Utah_Saint

thomond2006 wrote: »

Wind up the Leinster zealots I say. Keep up the poaching Ulster!

haha....tbh it feels like we are doing them a favour as we are clearing a path for the next bright young thing...

launish116

bayern wrote: »

Basically if Ulster want a better pack, go recruit more players from Leinster.

Really wish it wasn’t the case and hope our current crop progress. Though if the likes of Rea/McCann/Allison/Reid don’t some questions need asked with the answer immediately implemented. Especially based on A team form.

Applauded the young guns at Munster over the weekend! Aungier, Prendrgst and Oliver for Connacht were unreal as well.

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Wind up the Leinster zealots I say. Keep up the poaching Ulster!

No, no. They should spend their careers making 8-10 appearances a season for Leinster during international windows against Zebre and the Dragons. Hands off!

CMcsporty

bayern wrote: »

Basically if Ulster want a better pack, go recruit more players from Leinster.

They've already implanted the Leinster loop with Madigan and Cooney!
https://twitter.com/ek_rugby/status/1338400953398161408

Buer

Utah_Saint wrote: »

thats pretty much the way it feels. Pick up players who missed out on Leinster Academy places or players who have fallen out of favour.

It's not so much having fallen out of favour as it's simply a bottle neck. I'd imagine Cullen would love to get more game time for the likes of Penny or Josh Murphy but he has to balance his squad whilst ensuring they win the big games.

I do think Ulster should give preference to their own guys initially though. There's promise there and some guys that could be future internationals. The Ravens win was impressive and bodes well.

bilston

Utah_Saint wrote: »

thats pretty much the way it feels. Pick up players who missed out on Leinster Academy places or players who have fallen out of favour.

I am grateful those players took a chance and came north but I would just like to see a player come through the system (end to end) like we do with the backs.

We have three quality young forwards who will dominate the Ulster team and hopefully win decent Ireland caps in the next few years, Tom O'Toole is one and there are two others in the Academy who are serious prospects (my opinion on the two Academy players obviously they have it all to prove)

The problem with signing players not good enough for Leinster is that it means we will ALWAYS be behind Leinster.

awec

bilston wrote: »

We have three quality young forwards who will dominate the Ulster team and hopefully win decent Ireland caps in the next few years, Tom O'Toole is one and there are two others in the Academy who are serious prospects (my opinion on the two Academy players obviously they have it all to prove)

The problem with signing players not good enough for Leinster is that it means we will ALWAYS be behind Leinster.

Yep.

You'll never catch the top teams signing their cast offs. But that's the constraints we have to exist under thanks to the curious nature of how rugby is run here.

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

No, no. They should spend their careers making 8-10 appearances a season for Leinster during international windows against Zebre and the Dragons. Hands off!

Leinster players who can't get games should just sit around and wait to be told their career is over. Exactly.

launish116

Injury update

Marcell Coetzee and Sam Carter sustained concussions during the Heineken Champions Cup Round 1 fixture against Toulouse, and both will follow Return to Play protocols.

In addition to this, Jack McGrath injured his hip in training last week, and he is currently unavailable for selection.

Dubinusa

Coetzee is the best 8 in Ireland. By a large margin. So who replaces him? I think Deegan would suit Ulster. Obviously not Coetzee, but a real good player. There's no guarantee that Allison will be a standout and if he is... well great. But Ulster will need to bring in someone imo.

Paul Smeenus

awec wrote: »

Yep.

You'll never catch the top teams signing their cast offs. But that's the constraints we have to exist under thanks to the curious nature of how rugby is run here.

EOS > Ed Byrne

Former Former Former

thomond2006 wrote: »

Leinster players who can't get games should just sit around and wait to be told their career is over. Exactly.

Quicker just to put them on a bus to Belfast and let them figure it out as they pass over the M1 bridge.

launish116

From Adam McKendry

Ulster head coach Dan McFarland confirms that captain Iain Henderson is likely to be out "for the next block of games". Where that leaves his Six Nations availability is unclear, but it looks like he's out until the end of January at least.

Will be missed

bilston

launish116 wrote: »

From Adam McKendry

Ulster head coach Dan McFarland confirms that captain Iain Henderson is likely to be out "for the next block of games". Where that leaves his Six Nations availability is unclear, but it looks like he's out until the end of January at least.

Will be missed

Not unexpected given it was a knee injury.

Any news of Billy Burns?