Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Buer

Was DOC (is this DOC3 now?) rumoured? It seems a bit of a surprise addition. He's not a bad player but never was one that jumped out. I wouldn't have considered him as good as his brother, for example. He must be about 24 now?

Paul Smeenus

Buer wrote: »

Was DOC (is this DOC3 now?) rumoured? It seems a bit of a surprise addition. He's not a bad player but never was one that jumped out. I wouldn't have considered him as good as his brother, for example. He must be about 24 now?

There was rumour of him joining during the season. Maybe just a cheap roll of the dice to give him a crack.

dregin

Anyone know what the story is with Joey Dunleavy? Not much info on either the Ulster or Malone sites on his current situation.

The Lost Sheep

dregin wrote: »

Anyone know what the story is with Joey Dunleavy? Not much info on either the Ulster or Malone sites on his current situation.

Still academy for next season. Was named as one of the 4 third year academy members when new intake was announced last week

bilston

Players by position
PROP
Jack McGrath
Marty Moore
Eric O'Sullivan
Ross Kane
Tom O'Toole
Andrew Warwick
Gareth Milasinovic
Kyle McCall
Tommy O'Hagan

HOOKER
Rob Herring
John Andrew
Adam McBurney
Zack McCall

SECOND ROW
Iain Henderson
Sam Carter
Kieran Treadwell
Alan O'Connor
David O'Connor

BACK ROW
Marcell Coetzee
Jordi Murphy
Sean Reidy
Nick Timoney
Clive Ross
Matty Rea
Marcus Rea
Greg Jones

SCRUM HALF
John Cooney
Dave Shanahan
Jonny Stewart

OUT HALF
Billy Burns
Bill Johnston

CENTRE
Stuart McCloskey
Will Addison*
Luke Marshall
James Hume
Angus Curtis*

WING
Jacob Stockdale
Craig Gilroy
Rob Lyttle
Robert Balacoune
Angus Kernohan

FULL BACK
Matt Faddes*
Louis Ludik
Michael Lowry*
* Can play other positions

ACADEMY
Callum Reid
Tom Stewart
Matt Dalton
Jack Regan
Aaron Hall
Joe Dunleavy
Matthew Agnew
Azur Allison
David McCann
Graham Curtis
Bruce Houston
Stewart Moore
Hayden Hyde
Iwan Hughes
Aaron Sexton
Conor Rankin

As Paul says it's a very young squad, but it is talented. You have the guts of a squad that could be together for another 4-5 years. Considering they've just made a league semi final and a European quarter final that's a great place to be in. On paper it's a much stronger group than last year.

A few points

1) Replacing Best and Cave...not necessarily replacing the players, but replacing the influence they would have had this season, particularly with Henderson and now possibly Coetzee likely to miss a large part of the season. New leaders will need to emerge.

2) We've two thirds of a quality back row that can compete with anyone, but while the likes.of Reidy and Timoney are decent players and certainly good at Pro 14 level, come the latter stages of Europe it would be nice to have a destructive ball carrier at 6.

3) Bringing in Bill Johnston could prove a masterstroke. It could turn out to be the best signing of the lot in the long term. To me he has looked one of the most competent Irish U20 out halfs I've seen, but his career has stalled because of injuries. Watch this space.

4) I doubt we will get the same return this year from the Academy, we don't need to anyway, but Stewart Moore looks the business. If he stays fit he will be right in the mix sooner rather than later. He looks like someone who could reach the very top. Hopefully a back row emerges, although I'm not sure we have someone who fits the description at point 2!

Paul Smeenus

Was pleasantly surprised by the debut of Marcus Rea. Supposed to be the more talented brother.

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Was pleasantly surprised by the debut of Marcus Rea. Supposed to be the more talented brother.

Agree, he was really impressive against Leinster. If Murphy and Coetzee are at the WC he should get plenty of chances. Based on what I saw against Leinster he might be the missing link. Really good players tend to stand out right from the beginning, and he did that, but it was effectively an A game and I just wonder why it has taken him a little longer than expected to get a chance. That's me looking for a negative that may not exist! Hands Like Flipper and Loch Lamora seem to know more about the younger lads so maybe they can comment?

launish116

Didnt he have a few injuries? Same during u20s?

Hopefully he gets a good preseason under his belt and can make an impact!

Some good old brother rivalary wont do any harm.

DonVito

I think he's suffered quite a bit from 6.5 syndrome. He was a real stand out for Blackrock in the SCT but he was more of a back-row ball carrier.

Kept being brought through the underage system as a lock, but he was never going to succeed there at 6'4 and with his physique. He's not rangy and athletic like Itoje. He's more of a Rhys Ruddock type player. If Ulster stick with him at 6 he can certainly reach Pro14 standard.

bilston

DonVito wrote: »

I think he's suffered quite a bit from 6.5 syndrome. He was a real stand out for Blackrock in the SCT but he was more of a back-row ball carrier.

Kept being brought through the underage system as a lock, but he was never going to succeed there at 6'4 and with his physique. He's not rangy and athletic like Itoje. He's more of a Rhys Ruddock type player. If Ulster stick with him at 6 he can certainly reach Pro14 standard.

I think you're talking about Nick Timoney.

I don't think the Blackrock lads would have understood anything Marcus Rea ever said if he had gone there

DonVito

bilston wrote: »

I think you're talking about Nick Timoney.

I don't think the Blackrock lads would have understood anything Marcus Rea ever said if he had gone there

Sorry I was talking about David O'Connor.

Glanced at sibling rivalry and assumed.

Locke_Lamora

bilston wrote: »

Agree, he was really impressive against Leinster. If Murphy and Coetzee are at the WC he should get plenty of chances. Based on what I saw against Leinster he might be the missing link. Really good players tend to stand out right from the beginning, and he did that, but it was effectively an A game and I just wonder why it has taken him a little longer than expected to get a chance. That's me looking for a negative that may not exist! Hands Like Flipper and Loch Lamora seem to know more about the younger lads so maybe they can comment?

Compared to other academy backrow prospects I would've rated him behind McCann, Allison and Hall but well ahead of Dunleavy and Agnew. He played well enough in the games I saw him, but he never really stood out. As for why it's taken him a while to break through, I'm fairly certain he's had quite a few injuries, and I'd also wager a guess that it might've taken a little time to get his strength and weight up, as he's not the biggest guy around. Pure speculation though.

Tbh I was pretty surprised at how well he played against leinster. Even if it was a weakened side, they have great depth and a lot of guys who have proven themselves in the pro14 before.

His second professional game is just another thing to get excited about I suppose, right after Baloucoune taking his rightful place in Keith Earls' Irish jersey.

Hands Like Flippers

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

Compared to other academy backrow prospects I would've rated him behind McCann, Allison and Hall but well ahead of Dunleavy and Agnew. He played well enough in the games I saw him, but he never really stood out. As for why it's taken him a while to break through, I'm fairly certain he's had quite a few injuries, and I'd also wager a guess that it might've taken a little time to get his strength and weight up, as he's not the biggest guy around. Pure speculation though.

Tbh I was pretty surprised at how well he played against leinster. Even if it was a weakened side, they have great depth and a lot of guys who have proven themselves in the pro14 before.

His second professional game is just another thing to get excited about I suppose, right after Baloucoune taking his rightful place in Keith Earls' Irish jersey.

Aye it was injuries that held him back same as Moore.

launish116

So much potential slowly building in backrow, still think it'll be another season or 2 for it to really show.

But blindside is there for the taking along with backup 8. Mathew Rea needs to lock it down or he's going to be overtook.

If David brings the same dog his brother has ill be happy enough.

hype101

Why bring in DOC3 and offload Nagle?

Squidgy Black

hype101 wrote: »

Why bring in DOC3 and offload Nagle?

Nagle had an offer from Zebre. Also he's 30 and is pretty much a journeyman at this stage, granted he came into a good spell in his loan period but someone like David O'Connor is 24, being brought in on a development contract (so pennies pretty much), and performed well in the AIL with Lansdowne so he's not a completely unknown quantity. Was just a victim of Leinster's overflow in 2nd row prospects, last year when he was released James Ryan had just signed a senior contract, Dowling was in the 1st year intake and Baird was pencilled in for a spot the following year.

hype101

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Nagle had an offer from Zebre. Also he's 30 and is pretty much a journeyman at this stage, granted he came into a good spell in his loan period but someone like David O'Connor is 24, being brought in on a development contract (so pennies pretty much), and performed well in the AIL with Lansdowne so he's not a completely unknown quantity. Was just a victim of Leinster's overflow in 2nd row prospects, last year when he was released James Ryan had just signed a senior contract, Dowling was in the 1st year intake and Baird was pencilled in for a spot the following year.

Ya fair enough.. Would have thought his age profile would have complemented the squad's young make-up though.. Just thought he was playing particularly well towards the end of the season and was full value for a bench spot.. Glut of quality young second rows at Leinster at the mo alright.. Jack Dunne another.. Anyway, hopefully DOC3 will go the way of his brother.

launish116

Agreed Nagle would of been great to keep! Though he looked very good when he played for us! Guessing he wanta more game time and would of been 3/4 choice here after Carter arrived.

Is O'Connor more a blindside than a 2nd row? Doesnt look all that big for the row?

Buer

launish116 wrote: »

Agreed Nagle would of been great to keep! Though he looked very good when he played for us! Guessing he wanta more game time and would of been 3/4 choice here after Carter arrived.

Is O'Connor more a blindside than a 2nd row? Doesnt look all that big for the row?

Think he played mostly at lock this season in the AIL but he was mostly a flanker for St. Mary's before that. Was a lock at underage. When he was in the Leinster academy, I think he was being touted more for a blindside than a lock.

He'll probably be slightly undersized for a lock at pro level.

bilston

I think I read that Nagle had signed for Zebre before he came to Ulster.

But agree I'd have liked him to stay for another year.

Is Carter anywhere near the Australian set up? I know he has been capped previously.

Dog Botherer

bilston wrote: »

Is Carter anywhere near the Australian set up? I know he has been capped previously.

Hasn’t played for them since ‘17, think a lack of form for him dropped. He’d be on the outskirts i reckon, wouldn’t take much for him to be benching or starting given Australia’s lack of depth at lock. He’s been very good for the Brumbies this season though, they weren’t too happy to be losing him.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6234405/is-sam-carter-australian-rugbys-forgotten-man/

bilston

Looks like Ruan might get a run out at Kingspan next season...for the Cheetahs...

Paul Smeenus

Addison back in training at pre-season.

Has to be said, if we can get some parity up front, a RWC-period backline featuring Addison, McCloskey, Marshall, Gilroy and Baloucoune should be able to put some points on the board. To say nothing of Lowry and Lyttle.

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Addison back in training at pre-season.

Has to be said, if we can get some parity up front, a RWC-period backline featuring Addison, McCloskey, Marshall, Gilroy and Baloucoune should be able to put some points on the board. To say nothing of Lowry and Lyttle.

Forgetting Matt Faddes also

bilston

When do Faddes and Carter get here?

Faddes presumably has Mitre Cup (NPC in old money whatever they called it these days) duties?

I assume that provided Carter doesn't get a call for Australia he should be here for the start of the season?

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Addison back in training at pre-season.

Has to be said, if we can get some parity up front, a RWC-period backline featuring Addison, McCloskey, Marshall, Gilroy and Baloucoune should be able to put some points on the board. To say nothing of Lowry and Lyttle.

We can definitely get an exciting backline out, we're only really missing Stockdale.

Out half is interesting, as I've said before I'm not as down on Burns as some, I thought he was perfectly decent last season, but I think we have got ourselves a bit of a gem in Bill Johnston. He needs to two things. One, bide his time, I'm sure Burns will (rightfully) start the season as first choice and two stay fit, I watched this guy play for the U20s in the team that reached the JWC final 3 years ago, and he looked the most complete Irish U20 out half I've seen in 10-15 years of watching the U20s/U21s. That includes both Jonny Sexton and Paddy Jackson.

Lucas44

bilston wrote: »

We can definitely get an exciting backline out, we're only really missing Stockdale.

Out half is interesting, as I've said before I'm not as down on Burns as some, I thought he was perfectly decent last season, but I think we have got ourselves a bit of a gem in Bill Johnston. He needs to two things. One, bide his time, I'm sure Burns will (rightfully) start the season as first choice and two stay fit, I watched this guy play for the U20s in the team that reached the JWC final 3 years ago, and he looked the most complete Irish U20 out half I've seen in 10-15 years of watching the U20s/U21s. That includes both Jonny Sexton and Paddy Jackson.

Burns is very average, stands deep and passes, not the player he was at Gloucester and Underage, the fact cooney was kicking ahead of him has to say something aswell, expect Johnston to fully take over next season

bilston

Reading a thread on PR on the possible Australian WC squad and it seems Carter is part of the conversation amongst the media. It will be interesting to see if he gets a shot in the Rugby championship.

Not ideal for us if he does, but again similar to Coetzee who are we to stand in their way. It would also be good for the brand I suppose.

thomond2006

No sign of Carter in Australia's RC squad.

sydthebeat

thomond2006 wrote: »

No sign of Carter in Australia's RC squad.

not even sure he'd be 1st reserve either at this stage...
theyve 4 locks in there at the moment with arnold, rodda, loto (Tui) and simmons

cheika likes utility with his reserve players and he has Luke Jones and Jack Dempsey who could play both lock / flanker.... and ned hanigan, who isnt named, would also come into that bracket.