Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Seanergy

How do supporters feel about Kingspan as sponsors since the Grenfell inquiry?

bayern

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

I'm absolutely shameless enough to claim this still counts as an undefeated season.

You lost last weekend.

Burkie1203

Seanergy wrote: »

How do supporters feel about Kingspan as sponsors since the Grenfell inquiry?

Its not an issue for fans to be bothered by.

thomond2006

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Its not an issue for fans to be bothered by.

It's not?

Seanergy

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Its not an issue for fans to be bothered by.

Why not? You can only speak for yourself.

bilston

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Champions cup definitely. 5 points for other team.

Assuming Pro14 will follow similar path

If it's just for one week that elite sport is banned then it won't affect the Champions Cup, but I'm still not clear on that.

The whole season is becoming a bit of a farce! Ah well, it's not really anyone's fault.

bilston

Seanergy wrote: »

How do supporters feel about Kingspan as sponsors since the Grenfell inquiry?

To be honest...between Covid and Brexit dominating the headlines and just life in general happening I haven't been following the inquiry, but I gather Kingspan haven't come out of it well. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of it, but given Ulster are up dirt creek financially at the moment I'd be surprised if they ended their relationship with Kingspan...but thats just my opinion as an outside observer who knows little on how these things work.

Locke_Lamora

bayern wrote: »

You lost last weekend.

Not in the pro14

bilston

Looks like it is just the 1st week of the lockdown that elite sport is banned...26th December to 2nd January. Not entirely sure what the logic is there?? What does one week of no elite sport achieve?

Anyway that will rule out the Connacht and Munster matches...although in theory if the Connacht game (27th) is in the Republic and we would only be missing one days training, I wonder if that could go ahead???

It probably wouldn't be a good look to be travelling to Galway though, so it is unlikely.

Paul Smeenus

bilston wrote: »

To be honest...between Covid and Brexit dominating the headlines and just life in general happening I haven't been following the inquiry, but I gather Kingspan haven't come out of it well. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of it, but given Ulster are up dirt creek financially at the moment I'd be surprised if they ended their relationship with Kingspan...but thats just my opinion as an outside observer who knows little on how these things work.

I feel deeply uncomfortable about it. Grenfell was an appalling failure of planning that saw over 70 people killed - burned alive and choked to death on smoke.

I personally find it extremely troubling that the alacrity and ruthlessness that the IRFU moved with over the rape trial texts is completely absent in their (non-) response to this. I suppose if Irish Twitter is less animated about poor Londoners dying than the novelty of being able to name famous rape suspects, it seems no difficult decision will be taken this time round.

thomond2006

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/grenfell-inquiry-hears-kingspan-rigged-tests-and-hired-lobbyists-after-fire-1.4432267?mode=amp

There's plenty chatter about this on social media.

I think it would have gotten a lot more airtime in Irish media had Kingspan sponsored Connacht, Leinster or Munster.

Seanergy

bilston wrote: »

To be honest...between Covid and Brexit dominating the headlines and just life in general happening I haven't been following the inquiry, but I gather Kingspan haven't come out of it well. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of it, but given Ulster are up dirt creek financially at the moment I'd be surprised if they ended their relationship with Kingspan...but thats just my opinion as an outside observer who knows little on how these things work.

Thanks for the reply, sounds like your not ready to stick your head into it and that's perfectly okay, indeed you have alot going on at the moment, so I will tread lightly.

You the fans are the ones who are going to be wearing the kingspan branding on your chests, can you still do this proudly home and away? I believe it is something the fans need to discuss. It will define you more than you think or more than you would like.

BTW Ulster are very attractive for sponsors don't under value yourselves and sell yourselves short.

Paul Smeenus

thomond2006 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/grenfell-inquiry-hears-kingspan-rigged-tests-and-hired-lobbyists-after-fire-1.4432267?mode=amp

There's plenty chatter about this on social media.

I think it would have gotten a lot more airtime in Irish media had Kingspan sponsored Connacht, Leinster or Munster.

Is there? That's an online newspaper article. Not thousands of punters tweeting and sharing memes about it. Are there any online petitions, for example? There certainly haven't been any protests.

I don't think we should be running out with Kingspan on our jerseys. I don't think Ravenhill should be referred to as Kingspan Stadium any more. But the good, family-friendly name of Irish rugby seems to be able a to withstand a lot more blackening and compromise when it's the actions of the corporate money men that cause it.

We should have already dumped them. But we haven't, because it's not about ethics, it's about watching to see how big the furore is, and acting accordingly.

Paul Smeenus

Seanergy wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, sounds like your not ready to stick your head into it and that's perfectly okay, indeed you have alot going on at the moment, so I will tread lightly.

You the fans are the ones who are going to be wearing the kingspan branding on your chests, can you still do this proudly home and away? I believe it is something the fans need to discuss. It will define you more than you think or more than you would like.

BTW Ulster are very attractive for sponsors don't under value yourselves and sell yourselves short.

While I 100% agree with your wider point, and I personally feel very strongly about it, the IRFU will do what it wants. They've set out their stall as taking morality on and off the pitch extremely seriously. Regardless of what fans feel. So let's see if that's actually the case.

Paul Smeenus

By the way - this is an IRFU issue, not just Ulster Rugby. If you think Johnny Petrie could unilaterally decide to sever this multi-million, 10 year sponsorship deal rather than D4 ultimately dictating, I'd suggest you're sorely mistaken.

Seanergy

Agreed, do you know of many Ulster fans contacting the IRFU about this?

Majority of us are not the IRFU or the club, we are all supporters of clubs and lovers of Irish rugby. Are you suggesting all Irish clubs should stand in solidarity? Will the Ulster fans should lead the way?

My post was and is asking how the fans feel.

sydthebeat

Obviously EVERYONE has to wait until the inquiry is over before decisions can be made. We're only on phase 2 right now with no end date prescribed.

Kingspan themselves may not survive the final judgement, or may require a huge rebranding themselves.

And at the end of the day, they knowingly falsified test results.... So it's hard for anyone to have any sympathy for them.

Paul Smeenus

Seanergy wrote: »

Agreed, do you know of many Ulster fans contacting the IRFU about this?

Majority of us are not the IRFU or the club, we are all supporters of clubs and lovers of Irish rugby. Are you suggesting all Irish clubs should stand in solidarity? Will the Ulster fans should lead the way?

My post was and is asking how the fans feel.

I know of supporters who are unhappy, but most prevaricate about the idea of cutting ties with Kingspan - I could well be in the minority.

My point about bringing up the Belfast Two is that there were an awful lot of supporters (I was not one) who emailed Ulster to protest that they were being cut loose, season ticket holders who never returned to watch Ulster play again, who had counter-petitions and full-page ads in newspapers. None of this carried any weight.

So I don't know what "leading the way" would achieve. Unless social media goes daft or someone threatens to pull sponsorship, I can't see the IRFU acting. Which sits very poorly with me. But as I say, I'm most likely in the minority in feeling unhappy enough to think we should forego their money.

salmocab

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I know of supporters who are unhappy, but most prevaricate about the idea of cutting ties with Kingspan - I could well be in the minority.

My point about bringing up the Belfast Two is that there were an awful lot of supporters (I was not one) who emailed Ulster to protest that they were being cut lose, season ticket holders who never returned to watch Ulster play again, who had counter-petitions and full-page ads in newspapers. None of this carried any weight.

So I don't know what "leading the way" would achieve. Unless social media goes daft or someone threatens to pull sponsorship, I can't see the IRFU acting. Which sits very poorly with me. But as I say, I'm most likely in the minority in feeling unhappy enough to think we should forego their money.

Sadly the difference between how the two cases are playing publicly is social media.

Former Former Former

Returning the money, a lot of which is already spent I'd guess, means people lose their jobs for reasons nothing to do with them.

I see the point but if I was one of those who had to go on the dole, I'd tolerate some moral ambiguity tbh.

Paul Smeenus

Former Former Former wrote: »

Returning the money, a lot of which is already spent I'd guess, means people lose their jobs for reasons nothing to do with them.

I see the point but if I was one of those who had to go on the dole, I'd tolerate some moral ambiguity tbh.

Absolutely. Given the state of the economy and with Brexit looming, I can understand a bit of pragmatism going a long way.

Would money have to be returned, thought? Presumably it would instead be that no more money is forthcoming?

Former Former Former

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Absolutely. Given the state of the economy and with Brexit looming, I can understand a bit of pragmatism going a long way.

Would money have to be returned, thought? Presumably it would instead be that no more money is forthcoming?

Yeah, sorry that's what I meant - that they'd have budgeted for spending based on future income from Kingspan. 'Forego' rather than 'return'.

The wider IRFU also lost the sponsorship of Musgrave and selling the naming rights to Thomond never got off the ground, so they'll probably cling to this for dear life.

Yeah_Right

Unfortunately it all comes down to money. If they can find a sponsor who will match what they are getting from Kingspan, the IRFU/Ulster Rugby will take the moral high ground and drop Kingspan. It was the same following the rape trial. Some sponsors said they wanted the players gone, so they went. If those same sponsors had said "they were found not guilty and we are proud to be associated with them as they rebuild their careers" then those lads would probably still be playing in Ulster.

ionadnapokot

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I feel deeply uncomfortable about it. Grenfell was an appalling failure of planning that saw over 70 people killed - burned alive and choked to death on smoke.

In a world gone mad over pc and taking offense, sport as an activity is usually at the forefront in "taking a stance". Wrongly in my opinion.

I must say you have captured my feelings on this succinctly Paul .
I would go further though if it is proved that kingspan knowingly falsified test results.
They should be fined massively and each and every person in Grenfell should be compensated by kingspan.
IRFU/Ulster are in fine mess financially but this really is something where they probably have to cut ties.
A big decision to make without the full facts and even before an inquiry is finished.

Personally im vowing to stop using any kingspan products both personally & professionally now and until i see what the inquiry or trial proves them guilty of if anything.

launish116

Back to the rugby! As feared...

Ulster team to play Gloucester, Heineken Champions Cup Round 2, Saturday 19 December 2020 at Kingsholm Stadium, kick-off 3.15pm, live on BT Sport / beIN Sport:

(15-9) Michael Lowry, Matt Faddes, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns (Capt.), John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Alan O’Connor, David O’Connor, Sean Reidy, Jordi Murphy, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: John Andrew, Kyle McCall, Tom O’Toole, Matty Rea, Greg Jones, Alby Mathewson, Ian Madigan, Ethan McIlroy.

Seanergy

sydthebeat wrote: »

Obviously EVERYONE has to wait until the inquiry is over before decisions can be made. We're only on phase 2 right now with no end date prescribed.

Kingspan themselves may not survive the final judgement, or may require a huge rebranding themselves.

And at the end of the day, they knowingly falsified test results.... So it's hard for anyone to have any sympathy for them.

BS, no they do not. Supporters do not need to keep wearing kingspan logo's, they can wear the Ulster colours instead.

I'm sure players could be inverntive with the jersey too.

Paul Smeenus

We waited until the result of the trial, when PJ and Olding were found not guilty, and then they had to go anyway. So why bother waiting for the result of an inquiry in this instance? If it's about unsavoury texts, we already have them.


Anyway, that team is up against it, but not as bad as I'd feared, actually.

BURNS BACK IS BIG BOOST, BOASTS BOARDS.IE BORE

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Anyway, that team is up against it, but not as bad as I'd feared, actually.

BURNS BACK IS BIG BOOST, BOASTS BOARDS.IE BORE

Guess he wouldn’t be kept away from playing his old team!

jacothelad

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

By the way - this is an IRFU issue, not just Ulster Rugby. If you think Johnny Petrie could unilaterally decide to sever this multi-million, 10 year sponsorship deal rather than D4 ultimately dictating, I'd suggest you're sorely mistaken.

Like the IRFU dumped the Bank of Ireland after they destroyed the lives of their customers by stealing their money and their homes and on more than one occasion driving people to take their own lives. Oh, hang on that can't be right,,,is it?

bilston

launish116 wrote: »

Back to the rugby! As feared...

Ulster team to play Gloucester, Heineken Champions Cup Round 2, Saturday 19 December 2020 at Kingsholm Stadium, kick-off 3.15pm, live on BT Sport / beIN Sport:

(15-9) Michael Lowry, Matt Faddes, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns (Capt.), John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Alan O’Connor, David O’Connor, Sean Reidy, Jordi Murphy, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: John Andrew, Kyle McCall, Tom O’Toole, Matty Rea, Greg Jones, Alby Mathewson, Ian Madigan, Ethan McIlroy.

Good to see Billy Burns back (although Madigan played well last week).

Will be tough without Carter and Coetzee.