Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Paul Smeenus

Have seen a rumour elsewhere of Carter to Dragons.

On UAFC now as well

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Have seen a rumour elsewhere of Carter to Dragons.

On UAFC now as well

Dragons just signed a 2nd row from Wasps

launish116

Curtis signed till 2022.

We have a serious back field logger jam forming.

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Dragons just signed a 2nd row from Wasps

Maybe not then.

He has improved significantly - about halfway through the autumn it suddenly became apparent why we signed him, Lineout looked good under him, added to the organisation of forwards, especially as regards the maul etc.

Paul Smeenus

Today is clearly Probation Contract day.

Paul Smeenus

For a while, Gilroy really did look something else.

https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/1354816503585988612?s=20

bilston

I think we definitely want to keep Carter.

I'm hoping tomorrow being Friday will be Hendy day...but that is an IRFU thing I suppose.

Maybe get Carter and McCann on new deals tomorrow...here's hoping...

Utah_Saint

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

For a while, Gilroy really did look something else.

https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/1354816503585988612?s=20

Unbelievable trys

Paul Smeenus

So, giving credit to Neil_M on T'Other Forum -

2021
Matt Faddes, Iain Henderson, Alby Mathewson, Louis Ludik, Sam Carter

2022
Billy Burns, John Cooney, Tom O’Toole, Stuart McCloskey, Jack McGrath, Marty Moore, Matthew Rea, Sean Reidy, Leone Nakawara, James Hume, Michael Lowry, Craig Gilroy, Marcus Rea, Angus Curtis

2023
Will Addison, Jordi Murphy, Rob Lyttle, Stewart Moore, Jacob Stockdale, John Andrew, Luke Marshall, Alan O’Connor, Robert Baloucoune, Aaron Sexton, Kieran Treadwell, Andrew Warwick, Nathan Doak, Rob Herring, Ian Madigan

Unsure
Bill Johnston, Greg Jones, Ross Kane, Adam McBurney, Kyle McCall, David O’Connor, Eric O’Sullivan, Nick Timoney, Gareth Milasinovich, Dave Shanahan

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

So, giving credit to Neil_M on T'Other Forum -

2021
Matt Faddes, Iain Henderson, Alby Mathewson, Louis Ludik, Sam Carter

2022
Billy Burns, John Cooney, Tom O’Toole, Stuart McCloskey, Jack McGrath, Marty Moore, Matthew Rea, Sean Reidy, Leone Nakawara, James Hume, Michael Lowry, Craig Gilroy, Marcus Rea, Angus Curtis

2023
Will Addison, Jordi Murphy, Rob Lyttle, Stewart Moore, Jacob Stockdale, John Andrew, Luke Marshall, Alan O’Connor, Robert Baloucoune, Aaron Sexton, Kieran Treadwell, Andrew Warwick, Nathan Doak, Rob Herring, Ian Madigan

Unsure
Bill Johnston, Greg Jones, Ross Kane, Adam McBurney, Kyle McCall, David O’Connor, Eric O’Sullivan, Nick Timoney, Gareth Milasinovich, Dave Shanahan

Hendy & Carter seem to be secured.

The unsure list has some slack for the cut!

Kane lucky we need props.

Paul Smeenus

Of the "unsure list", if those contracts are up this year, I think Greg Jones has shown that he'll work hard and play his part, so provided he's not too expensive, would be happy for him to tide us over for a year until the proper emergence of McCann / ReaJea, and maybe subsequently stay longer if Allison isn't cutting it/is too injured all the time.

Would definitely keep Johnston, Milasinovich, Timoney.

We need Ross Kane and O'Connor, who I have to say has been - well, not bad but fairly meh when I've seen him. Was this his first pro season, or was that last season? If Mathewson doesn't stay (and isn't his family halfway across the world?) we do need Shanahan.

EOS is one of the players we're building our pack around for the next few years, just got his first international cap - tie him down for two years.

McBurney could be in bother. Herring has been the de facto Irish first choice hooker and McBurney has had a golden opportunity to push on. Instead, Andrew did. Having seen the hustle and sheer determination not to let the opportunity go that Bradley Roberts (who is IQ through residency) has brought, and Tom Stewart's performances for the U20s, I would seriously consider letting him go. I certainly wouldn't be offering him anything more than a one year "up your game" contract. He might benefit from a fresh start in a Championship team.

McCall presumably gone.

As I say, if their contracts are actually up this year.

damianmcr

Think Faddes is gone too.

Paul Smeenus

damianmcr wrote: »

Think Faddes is gone too.

Given Gilroy got another year (probably at a rate Faddes would have turned his nose up at). Also - there were games during the season where we couldn't play Carter, Faddes and Mathewson in a squad, because they weren't EU/Kolpak, so hopefully if Faddes is gone, Mathewson stays.

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Of the "unsure list", if those contracts are up this year, I think Greg Jones has shown that he'll work hard and play his part, so provided he's not too expensive, would be happy for him to tide us over for a year until the proper emergence of McCann / ReaJea, and maybe subsequently stay longer if Allison isn't cutting it/is too injured all the time.

Would definitely keep Johnston, Milasinovich, Timoney.

We need Ross Kane and O'Connor, who I have to say has been - well, not bad but fairly meh when I've seen him. Was this his first pro season, or was that last season? If Mathewson doesn't stay (and isn't his family halfway across the world?) we do need Shanahan.

EOS is one of the players we're building our pack around for the next few years, just got his first international cap - tie him down for two years.

McBurney could be in bother. Herring has been the de facto Irish first choice hooker and McBurney has had a golden opportunity to push on. Instead, Andrew did. Having seen the hustle and sheer determination not to let the opportunity go that Bradley Roberts (who is IQ through residency) has brought, and Tom Stewart's performances for the U20s, I would seriously consider letting him go. I certainly wouldn't be offering him anything more than a one year "up your game" contract. He might benefit from a fresh start in a Championship team.

McCall presumably gone.

As I say, if their contracts are actually up this year.

Agree Jones has done enough for another year, still think he needs a little more timber for the frame of him.

Would keep Allison if it’s only academy wage, let him sit the rest of the season out and sort the injuries and bulk up. Then see if he can make a go of it. He did show potential at U20s and we’re really can’t keep snubbing talent in the back row.

Kane can scrummage but seems a little soft for a prop.

Dave O’Connor think he should be given more time, took Alan a few seasons to adjust to senior rugby.

McBurney could be in bother, he really hasn’t warranted a senior contract. If Stewart is going to fully recover for next season. Bradley looks tidy enough and would think he could progress further with the same opportunities McBurney has.

Really didn’t think Gilroy would get a contract.

Guess it all comes down to money, if they cheap enough keep them all. Better have and not need, than need and not have.

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Agree Jones has done enough for another year, still think he needs a little more timber for the frame of him.

Would keep Allison if it’s only academy wage, let him sit the rest of the season out and sort the injuries and bulk up. Then see if he can make a go of it. He did show potential at U20s and we’re really can’t keep snubbing talent in the back row.

Kane can scrummage but seems a little soft for a prop.

Dave O’Connor think he should be given more time, took Alan a few seasons to adjust to senior rugby.

McBurney could be in bother, he really hasn’t warranted a senior contract. If Stewart is going to fully recover for next season. Bradley looks tidy enough and would think he could progress further with the same opportunities McBurney has.

Really didn’t think Gilroy would get a contract.

Guess it all comes down to money, if they cheap enough keep them all. Better have and not need, than need and not have.

That's all it really boils down to.

(c) 2021 Smeenus School of World Class Rugby Coaching

awec

I'd get rid of Kane tbh. Never going to make it.

mfceiling

awec wrote: »

I'd get rid of Kane tbh. Never going to make it.

I'd put McCall in there as well. Nowhere near big enough or strong enough for a prop.

bilston

I don't like singling out individual players and saying they shouldn't get a contract, but I'll probably do it anyway!

Some of them will get lucky because of squad needs.

You could probably make arguments for keeping all those players. I think the emergence of Callum Reid could be bad news for one player on that list especially given the renewal for Warwick and it isn't Eric O'Sullivan!

I dont think we can lose both Matthewson and Shanahan, but Doak will replace one of them.

I still think there is a player in Milanonvich, given his knee injury I'd inclined to give him another year, plus he plays both sides.

I wouldn't give up on McBurney yet, at least not until we see Tom Stewart prove himself. From what I've seen Stewart has the potential to be anything, but he needs to prove it for Ulster before we give up on McBurney.

Ludik might retire and I assume Faddes is gone. We need to keep Carter and I'm assuming Hendy will stay.

Paul Smeenus

From elsewhere - Ulster player returns from someone in the know

"Balacoune - February, Addison - March is my prediction"

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

From elsewhere - Ulster player returns from someone in the know

"Balacoune - February, Addison - March is my prediction"

Positive news

bilston

Thought this was interesting...

Ulster squad by caps

1= Craig Gilroy (29) 190
1= Rob Herring (30) 190
3 Luke Marshall (29) 144
4 Sean Reidy (31) 135
5 Stuart McCloskey (28) 130
6 Andy Warwick (29) 128
7 Alan O'Connor (28) 121
8 Iain Henderson (28) 116
9 Louis Ludik (34) 112
10 Kieran Treadwell (25) 99
11 John Andrew (27) 78
12 John Cooney (30) 76
13 Jacob Stockdale (24) 73
14 Nick Timoney (25) 70
15= Kyle McCall (29) 65
15= Dave Shanahan (27) 65
17=Eric O'Sullivan (25) 56
17= Matthew Rea (27) 56
19 Marcel Coetzee (29) 55
20 Tom O'Toole (22) 51
21= Ross Kane (26) 49
21= Marty Moore (29) 49
23 Billy Burns (26) 44
24 Jordi Murphy (29) 40
25 Rob Lyttle (23) 39

Only posting this to make the point that Al O'Connor has more Ulster caps than Hendy...Treadwell is only one cap short of the ton at the grand old age of 25, and that the so called unsung hero, Rob Herring, is our joint most capped player in the current squad.

Some other notable stats

At age 22, Tom O'Toole a TH prop has 51 Ulster caps. TH props don't usually peak until 29/30. The 50 year old John Hayes is still peaking!

Billy Burns has already played 44 times for Ulster, which seems a lot given he has only been here 2 years.

Will Addison has played just 19 times for Ulster!

Academy player Ethan McIlroy has more caps than senior players Gareth Milasinovuch and Marcus Rea. He may get his agent on the phone to Bryn.

Paul Smeenus

bilston wrote: »

Thought this was interesting...

Ulster squad by caps

1= Craig Gilroy (29) 190
1= Rob Herring (30) 190
3 Luke Marshall (29) 144
4 Sean Reidy (31) 135
5 Stuart McCloskey (28) 130
6 Andy Warwick (29) 128
7 Alan O'Connor (28) 121
8 Iain Henderson (28) 116
9 Louis Ludik (34) 112
10 Kieran Treadwell (25) 99


Only posting this to make the point that Al O'Connor has more Ulster caps than Hendy...Treadwell is only one cap short of the ton at the grand old age of 25, and that the so called unsung hero, Rob Herring, is our joint most capped player in the current squad.

Some other notable stats

At age 22, Tom O'Toole a TH prop has 51 Ulster caps. TH props don't usually peak until 29/30. The 50 year old John Hayes is still peaking!

Billy Burns has already played 44 times for Ulster, which seems a lot given he has only been here 2 years.

Will Addison has played just 19 times for Ulster!

Academy player Ethan McIlroy has more caps than senior players Gareth Milasinovuch and Marcus Rea. He may get his agent on the phone to Bryn.

Do you've a longer list, Bil?

launish116

Sam Carter signed up 2023

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Sam Carter signed up 2023

to be honest, I'm glad. I think we've seen much more quality out of him this last three or four months.

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Do you've a longer list, Bil?

Expanded it a bit...will do the rest later

Paul Smeenus

Two more years for Mike Lowry

Paul Smeenus

bilston wrote: »

Expanded it a bit...will do the rest later

Cheers, man.

launish116

Tom Stewart upgraded contract! Big vote of confidence there considering injuries this season.

Silly question if these players get bumped to upgraded contracts? Does that make extra room in academy?

bilston

That gives an indication of just how highly they rate Stewart. Will be interesting to see what happens with McBurney now

bilston

launish116 wrote: »

Tom Stewart upgraded contract! Big vote of confidence there considering injuries this season.

Silly question if these players get bumped to upgraded contracts? Does that make extra room in academy?

Yeah...well senior contra to definitely would make room in the Academy, not sure how it works with development contracts...

It seems to work like so...not sure whether Development contracted players stay in the Academy or not.

Central Contract
Senior Contract
Development Contract
Academy Contract
Sub Academy