Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Paul Smeenus

Can't swear to the veracity of it, but was told last week that BBC NI were going to get half a dozen home Ulster games.

hahashake

Faddes was seen in a similar light to Payne before he left NZ. The difference being that Payne was an intelligent and well-rounded player, and Faddes largely relied in his pace which was already in decline when he left (at its peak was exceptional though). To be honest I thought Faddes would have still had more impact than he did, but if you take away his biggest point of difference, then I'm not sure he is an above average player in any aspect.

Paul Smeenus

I think this URC sounds like it is making the best of our situation.

Would rather not have to play Leinster and Munster four times (and Connacht are tough enough) but there we are. I think not playing when the internationals are on will make a significant difference to the league. Leinster's amazing depth will be less of a defining factor, and all of a sudden the Italian teams will be less of a gimme, given their concentration of internationals. I do think that derbies will lose their flavour, but what can you do?

Less games, more internationals in squads, conferences full of derbies - I'd be surprised if the quality of the league doesn't improve considerably. We just need to make sure we're riding that wave. Need to have the right focus starting the season. And another backrower.

launish116

Adam McBurney over to Edinburgh and called up to Scotland squad! No time wasted.

bilston

launish116 wrote: »

Adam McBurney over to Edinburgh and called up to Scotland squad! No time wasted.

Flip, didn't see that coming. Fair play to him.

Another Tommy Seymour! Next stop the 2025 Lions!

Paul Smeenus

bilston wrote: »

Flip, didn't see that coming. Fair play to him.

Another Tommy Seymour! Next stop the 2025 Lions!

Ha!

Speaking of surprise call-ups, delighted for Timoney. Would love to see him get a cap, although number eight is probably the position with most pretenders to the throne.

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Speaking of surprise call-ups, delighted for Timoney. Would love to see him get a cap, although number eight is probably the position with most pretenders to the throne.

His form merits his call up. Still only 25 so can still get better over the next couple of years. He's always had his obvious strength which is pace, but now he has added brawn. That's a powerful combination. Has he the game intelligence and footballing skills plus defensive nous? I think he has the skills ok, game intelligence comes with experience. It looks like he will have a free run at 8 jersey next season. If he stays fit then the next 2-3 years could be good for him.

But yes, a pleasant surprise to see him called up.

awec

McBurney is an odd one, was very highly rated at one point I believe.

launish116

awec wrote: »

McBurney is an odd one, was very highly rated at one point I believe.

Like a large chunk of our forwards! Excel at U20 to vanish

stephen_n

launish116 wrote: »

Like a large chunk of our forwards! Excel at U20 to vanish

Do you think that’s due to the natural leveling up that occurs physically after 20’s. Where being big and strong is no longer good enough. Or are there deficiencies in the academy system, failing to maximize on potential?

launish116

stephen_n wrote: »

Do you think that’s due to the natural leveling up that occurs physically after 20’s. Where being big and strong is no longer good enough. Or are there deficiencies in the academy system, failing to maximize on potential?

If anything I'd of thought the opposite, our guys don't seem to level up physically.
Game wise I wouldn't think any different to other academy's. Just seems are academy can't get the forwards to bridge that gap.

Would love to hear an honest opinion from staff to why that is? is it physicality, mentality, lack of opportunities?

Dubinusa

It has to be the coaching? The amount of lads that don't make it at Ulster is astounding. At u20 level they are very good and then they fall off...
Donnan is an example, big physical lock for the u20's and never made it at Ulster. Jack Regan is another, Zack McCall, Thompson and on and on. It's hard to believe that these lads can't make it to pro standards!
There must be a dozen or so forwards from Ulster that played u20 level and fell short during the academy?

Paul Smeenus

Dubinusa wrote: »

It has to be the coaching? The amount of lads that don't make it at Ulster is astounding. At u20 level they are very good and then they fall off...
Donnan is an example, big physical lock for the u20's and never made it at Ulster. Jack Regan is another, Zack McCall, Thompson and on and on. It's hard to believe that these lads can't make it to pro standards!
There must be a dozen or so forwards from Ulster that played u20 level and fell short during the academy?

And yet we've backs coming out our ears.

Two in the U20s that have more than one senior cap. Chris Farrell, Paddy Jackson, Stuart Olding, Angus Kernohan, Pete Nelson, Hayden Hyde, Johnny McPhilips, Ian Whitten and Sammy Arnold came though our Academy and are still playing.

launish116

Dubinusa wrote: »

It has to be the coaching? The amount of lads that don't make it at Ulster is astounding. At u20 level they are very good and then they fall off...
Donnan is an example, big physical lock for the u20's and never made it at Ulster. Jack Regan is another, Zack McCall, Thompson and on and on. It's hard to believe that these lads can't make it to pro standards!
There must be a dozen or so forwards from Ulster that played u20 level and fell short during the academy?

To put into context against our provincial brothers (stats Dec 2020)

2020
Alex Soroka (6 position) 0 caps
Sean O’Brien (7) 0
Mark Hernan (7) 0
David McCann (8) 2

2019
Brian Deeny (8) 0
Ronan Watters (7) 0
Ryan Baird (6) 14
Allison Azzur (8) 1
CIaran Booth (8)
Martin Maloney (6) 0
Scott Penny (7) 19
John Hodnett (8) 5

2018
Jack Daly (6) 1?
Mathew Agnew (7) 0
Calean Doris (8) 34
Joe Dunlavy (6) 0
Aaron Hall (6) 1?
Jack O’Sullivan (6) 11
Sean Materson (6) 5
Paul Boyle (7) 44
Mathew Dalton (6) 9[/I]

2017
John Foley (6) ?
Gavin Coombes (6) 22
Marcus Rea (6) 3
Cillian Gallagher (6) 15

2016
Greg Jones (6) 18
David Aspil (7) 0
Max Deegan (8) 65
Coral Boomer (?) 0
Kevin Browne (?) 0
Will Connors (7) 21
Dan Walsh (7) 0

Comparing apples & oranges but since 2016 Ulster have given approx 34 caps, 18 to Jones, 9 to Dalton who has now vanished. Then you have players with more individual caps than our squad combined:
Max Deegan 65
Paul Boyle 44
Calaen Doris 34

Obviously caps have increased, but still as dire back then as it is now.

bilston

Hume called up to the Ireland squad to replace Ringrose who is injured.

Paul Smeenus

Speaking of our weirdly unbalanced production line, Jude Postlethwaite is 6'3".

Get him the hell out of centre and into the back-row.

Hey boy

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Speaking of our weirdly unbalanced production line, Jude Postlethwaite is 6'3".

Get him the hell out of centre and into the back-row.

Thought he was taller. Tidy player.

stephen_n

launish116 wrote: »

If anything I'd of thought the opposite, our guys don't seem to level up physically.
Game wise I wouldn't think any different to other academy's. Just seems are academy can't get the forwards to bridge that gap.

Would love to hear an honest opinion from staff to why that is? is it physicality, mentality, lack of opportunities?

What I mean is that around 20-21 the late developers mature. England dominate the U20 World Cup because they have players who are physically much more developed. I was wondering is the case with Ulster forwards at under 20. Then when the other players catch up their skill set takes them to the next level, not just physicality. It’s hard to understand how Ulster can have the second highest representation at U20 but have such a poor conversion rate with Forwards. As Paul pointed out, you grow backs for fun.

Dubinusa

I reckon that under McFarland, the standards will be extremely high. If the u20 forwards aren't up to it, they are let go. But I don't think it can be anything other than the programme and training. Something isn't right as the u20's lads that I recall were as good as their provincial counterparts.
All of the provinces have players that don't make it. Munster just took in 3 last year! Leinster too, have players that wash out. I suppose we will find out over time. If Ulster can graduate 2 forwards every year that would be fine. Taking lads from Leinster is good business also. Some of the overlooked Leinster youngsters have done well with Ulster. But, producing homegrown talent would be great!

damianmcr

.

launish116

(Nicked
from UAFC)

Ulster players stats in irish u20 squad:

George Saunderson(20/LH Prop) - 6'3, 118kg
Harry Sheridan(19/Lock) - 6'5, 111kg
Reuben Crothers(19/Openside) - 6'1, 96kg
Conor McKee(20/Scrumhalf) - 6'0, 87kg
Nathan Doak(19/Scrumhalf) - 6'1, 86kg
James Humphreys(19/Outhalf) - 6'1, 80kg
Ben Moxham(19/Centre) - 6'3, 97kg
Ben Carson(19/Centre) - 6'0, 100kg
Jude Postlethwaite(19/Centre) - 6'4, 101kg
Conor Rankin(20/Wing) - 6'1, 89kg

Scythica

launish116 wrote: »

(Nicked
from UAFC)

Ulster players stats in irish u20 squad:

George Saunderson(20/LH Prop) - 6'3, 118kg
Harry Sheridan(19/Lock) - 6'5, 111kg
Reuben Crothers(19/Openside) - 6'1, 96kg
Conor McKee(20/Scrumhalf) - 6'0, 87kg
Nathan Doak(19/Scrumhalf) - 6'1, 86kg
James Humphreys(19/Outhalf) - 6'1, 80kg
Ben Moxham(19/Centre) - 6'3, 97kg
Ben Carson(19/Centre) - 6'0, 100kg
Jude Postlethwaite(19/Centre) - 6'4, 101kg
Conor Rankin(20/Wing) - 6'1, 89kg

Won't pretend to know much but by all accounts the 3 forwards above are very highly rated, Sheridan perhaps being a 6 in future.

Humphreys I'm interested in, could be coming through at just the right time as a long term successor... if he's anything like his Da (or indeed has any attacking prowess like is Uncle) he could become a very handy lad to have indeed.

launish116

Scythica wrote: »

Won't pretend to know much but by all accounts the 3 forwards above are very highly rated, Sheridan perhaps being a 6 in future.

Humphreys I'm interested in, could be coming through at just the right time as a long term successor... if he's anything like his Da (or indeed has any attacking prowess like is Uncle) he could become a very handy lad to have indeed.

If them statistics are correct, all them players are very big for U20. Not a bad thing for Ulster!

Talk was Sheridan was a second row, but ear marked too small. Ideally he'll be a blindside. He's been pretty hand for us by all accounts I believe.

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

If them statistics are correct, all them players are very big for U20. Not a bad thing for Ulster!

Talk was Sheridan was a second row, but ear marked too small. Ideally he'll be a blindside. He's been pretty hand for us by all accounts I believe.

He was very good in the A game against Leinster.

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

He was very good in the A game against Leinster.

Indeed, 110 Kg at U20 is very promising as well! Ideally he will be a blindside.

A lot of the U20 is on Tv/streaming so hopefully get to see him and Saunderson.

bilston

There are two young props, Saunderson and Oscar Egan, I remember someone saying one was rated very highly. But I could have sworn it was Egan! But he isnt in the U20 squad. Maybe I've got them mixed up?

launish116

bilston wrote: »

There are two young props, Saunderson and Oscar Egan, I remember someone saying one was rated very highly. But I could have sworn it was Egan! But he isnt in the U20 squad. Maybe I've got them mixed up?

Think it was Egan also, think he's injured? has had bad time with injuries.

More interested to see the U20's than I was for the latter end of Ulster's season.

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Think it was Egan also, think he's injured? has had bad time with injuries.

More interested to see the U20's than I was for the latter end of Ulster's season.

100% this, and also the effectively meaningless senior internationals - want to see how the new lads go.

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

100% this, and also the effectively meaningless senior internationals - want to see how the new lads go.

Just looking at the U20 squad:

https://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/under20/profiles/

Some serious potential in it, even just the backline could easily have a 9-15 Ulster born.

Will be interesting to see scrum half battle, Doak V McKee. McKee is marked down as a wing, but pretty sure he is a scrum half?

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Just looking at the U20 squad:

https://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/under20/profiles/

Some serious potential in it, even just the backline could easily have a 9-15 Ulster born.

Will be interesting to see scrum half battle, Doak V McKee. McKee is marked down as a wing, but pretty sure he is a scrum half?

He is, aye.

I do wonder when or if we're going to see Lewis Finlay for the seniors.