Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

bilston · 17-06-2021 12:42pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

100% this, and also the effectively meaningless senior internationals - want to see how the new lads go.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the Ireland games to see Baloucoune, Hume, Timoney and O'Toole. As well as the likes of Coombes and H.Byrne as well from the other provinces.

It was st this point in the last WC cycle that Stockdale, Ryan and Porter emerged. Would be nice to see one or two lads do that this time.

TRC10 · 19-06-2021 7:31pm

If I was Ulster I'd be sniffing around Kendellan.

Probably a big long shot as he's a Munsterman and has a bit O'Mahony about him.

But a backrow is badly needed and with Jenkins, POM, Coombes, JOD around, and van Graan who's ultra conservative when it comes to playing young players compared to Ulster who are very good at giving youth a chance, he'll see a lot more game time up at Ulster and could solve a lot of backrow problems.

Probably a big long shot but it would be smart to try.

launish116 · 20-06-2021 11:44am

TRC10 wrote: »

But a backrow is badly needed and with Jenkins, POM, Coombes, JOD around, and van Graan who's ultra conservative when it comes to playing young players compared to Ulster who are very good at giving youth a chance, he'll see a lot more game time up at Ulster and could solve a lot of backrows.

If I was a young back row I wouldn’t touch Ulster with a barge pole. Back line on the other hand…

Munster have a seriously young back row developing, throw in Hodnett.

We definitely could do with another back row entering academy though.

Was impressed with Sheridan yesterday, would like to see him get some blindside game time.

salmocab · 20-06-2021 12:50pm

launish116 wrote: »

If I was a young back row I wouldn’t touch Ulster with a barge pole. Back line on the other hand…

The flip of that is they might see that ulster would offer a lot of game time in the back row if they were confident but a young back might see too many ahead. It’s tough to know how someone would view a move.

Paul Smeenus · 20-06-2021 1:09pm

salmocab wrote: »

The flip of that is they might see that ulster would offer a lot of game time in the back row if they were confident but a young back might see too many ahead. It’s tough to know how someone would view a move.

If you were a young back you'd have to be insanely confident to move to Ulster. If you can see yourself getting real game time amongst Stockdale, Baloucoune, Addison, McCloskey, Marshall, Hume, Moore, Lowry, Curtis, Moxham, Lyttle, Sexton, McIlroy then you're getting game time in your home province.

launish116 · 20-06-2021 1:16pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

If you were a young back you'd have to be insanely confident to move to Ulster. If you can see yourself getting real game time amongst Stockdale, Baloucoune, Addison, McCloskey, Marshall, Hume, Moore, Lowry, Curtis, Moxham, Lyttle, Sexton, McIlroy then you're getting game time in your home province.

True, but young backs definitely get the rub of the green at Ulster, was my point. Backs be mad to come now, but historically i’d rather of been a back than a forward pushing on at Ulster.

Whilst young forwards pick up the scraps.

Frustrating bit being the opportunities are there in the pack!

bilston · 20-06-2021 1:49pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we've produced more forwards for Ireland in the last 4 years than backs when you think of Herring, Best and Henderson. Stockdale is the only back to have started in the strongest XV for a while.

Paul Smeenus · 20-06-2021 2:20pm

bilston wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we've produced more forwards for Ireland in the last 4 years than backs when you think of Herring, Best and Henderson. Stockdale is the only back to have started in the strongest XV for a while.

Well, in fairness we didn't produce Herring.

Fairly confident Jackson and Olding would be in and around the first team had events not taken place as they did, especially Jackson. Spence too. We also produced B&I Lion Tommy Seymour. So just looking at the current Irish team doesn't give a very accurate picture of what talent has come through the ranks.

Paul Smeenus · 20-06-2021 2:24pm

bilston wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we've produced more forwards for Ireland in the last 4 years than backs when you think of Herring, Best and Henderson. Stockdale is the only back to have started in the strongest XV for a while.

Sorry - hadn't noticed the last four years bit. But four years ago, Jackson, Tommy Bowe and Andrew Trimble were in the 6N squad. And Best wasn't produced in the last four years.

launish116 · 20-06-2021 2:59pm

bilston wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we've produced more forwards for Ireland in the last 4 years than backs when you think of Herring, Best and Henderson. Stockdale is the only back to have started in the strongest XV for a while.

Possibly, but remove the internationals from the equation. Definitely a few back line players warranting caps before now.

You could say back line players have been gifted game time on Ulster’s term.

Where as forwards more so to do with required rotation or injuries.

Just don’t see why the likes of Kendellan would be better of at Ulster. No doubt the opportunity is there, but actually being given it might be another thing.

bilston · 20-06-2021 4:16pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Sorry - hadn't noticed the last four years bit. But four years ago, Jackson, Tommy Bowe and Andrew Trimble were in the 6N squad. And Best wasn't produced in the last four years.

The point is that as good as we think our backs are they haven't been able to get ahead of their Leinster compatriots in particularly large numbers. For all the centres we've apparently produced in recent years none of them are in the top 4 centres (in the coaches eyes) in Ireland.

In Ireland terms in the last few years we've had more test forwards than backs.

Paul Smeenus · 20-06-2021 4:44pm

bilston wrote: »

The point is that as good as we think our backs are they haven't been able to get ahead of their Leinster compatriots in particularly large numbers. For all the centres we've apparently produced in recent years none of them are in the top 4 centres (in the coaches eyes) in Ireland.

In Ireland terms in the last few years we've had more test forwards than backs.

Would one of those top four not be Chris Farrell? Product of our academy? Leinster meanwhile have produced Ringrose. Not Henshaw, not Aki.

Paul Smeenus · 20-06-2021 4:51pm

I know what you mean, Bilston, but there's going to be two young Ulster backs hopefully (probably) getting their first caps this summer. In two years,we might be saying we've brought through Stockdale, Baloucoune and Hume. Maybe Moore.

Leinster have brought through Keenan in the last four years as a settled starter. Anyone else?

Paul Smeenus · 22-06-2021 8:05am

Very frank and quite vulnerable description from Dan Tuohy about trying to fit in under Joe.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/joe-schmidt-he-wasnt-a-warm-character-i-do-believe-he-did-stifle-some-creativity/

Former Former Former · 22-06-2021 9:05am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Very frank and quite vulnerable description from Dan Tuohy about trying to fit in under Joe.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/joe-schmidt-he-wasnt-a-warm-character-i-do-believe-he-did-stifle-some-creativity/

Is there anything new in that? Like, we all know Joe was a micro-manager to the point of obsessiveness.

And Dan is not a man to just get on with things and not grumble. He has a shopping list of grudges.

Lsdrugbyfan · 22-06-2021 9:07am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Very frank and quite vulnerable description from Dan Tuohy about trying to fit in under Joe.

for a big man, it sure sounds like touhy was a bit sensitive. it's pro sport ffs.

Paul Smeenus · 22-06-2021 9:19am

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

for a big man, it sure sounds like touhy was a bit sensitive. it's pro sport ffs.

A sensitive man? Grab your pitchforks and torches.

Men need to be tough, tough, tough! Another round?

awec · 22-06-2021 9:30am

Sounds like some players found Schmidt a fairly unpleasant individual.

Squidgy Black · 22-06-2021 9:40am

I dunno I find it refreshing that Dan is pretty open about his experience and not just playing happy families with the IRFU and professional rugby as a whole like a lot of ex-pros do when they finish up.

Paul Smeenus · 22-06-2021 10:10am

Yeah, last time I checked, Tuohy is well within his rights to talk about his life and experiences playing professional rugby. If folk aren't interested they don't have to read it.

Former Former Former · 22-06-2021 10:21am

awec wrote: »

Sounds like some players found Schmidt a fairly unpleasant individual.

No doubt, but does it matter?

As for Dan, he left Ulster, a year into a three-year contract, with a "very, very bitter taste" in his mouth. Upon retirement, he declared the entire sport to be rotten to its core.

I dunno, I think Dan has some grievances that go beyond Joe's personal touch.

damianmcr · 22-06-2021 10:24am

Joe out

Jump_In_Jack · 22-06-2021 10:32am

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Very frank and quite vulnerable description from Dan Tuohy about trying to fit in under Joe.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/joe-schmidt-he-wasnt-a-warm-character-i-do-believe-he-did-stifle-some-creativity/

Biggest bombshell there was that Schmidt told the entire squad that nobody was allowed do an offload as they didn't have the skills for it.

sydthebeat · 22-06-2021 10:33am

some of the best coaches in the world have often been described as "unpleasant individuals" .
Ferguson, Shankly, Clough in football. Schmidth, Jones, Hansen in rugby.. Belichick in AF

Squidgy Black · 22-06-2021 10:37am

sydthebeat wrote: »

some of the best coaches in the world have often been described as "unpleasant individuals" .
Ferguson, Shankly, Clough in football. Schmidth, Jones, Hansen in rugby.. Belichick in AF

Yeah how many times do you hear players reference the whole 'hairdryer treatment' when talking about Ferguson, it seems to be the first thing that comes up in conversation when talking about him as a manager.

I don't know why people are reading into it as a big slight against him, or Tuohy throwing his toys out of the pram, I think it gives good insight into the camp from someone who's now outside of the IRFU bubble and isn't still linked with them that might paint things a bit more rosey.

awec · 22-06-2021 10:49am

Former Former Former wrote: »

No doubt, but does it matter?

As for Dan, he left Ulster, a year into a three-year contract, with a "very, very bitter taste" in his mouth. Upon retirement, he declared the entire sport to be rotten to its core.

I dunno, I think Dan has some grievances that go beyond Joe's personal touch.

Why does it have to matter? It's his opinion, some will find it interesting.

theVersatile · 22-06-2021 10:50am

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1407244055759802368?s=19

Matthew Dalton to Newcastle

Paul Smeenus · 22-06-2021 10:50am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Biggest bombshell there was that Schmidt told the entire squad that nobody was allowed do an offload as they didn't have the skills for it.

I dunno if there's any bombshells in there.

But maybe this interview with Touhy, which does mention Joe, is actually primarily about... Touhy?

Former Former Former · 22-06-2021 11:03am

awec wrote: »

Why does it have to matter? It's his opinion, some will find it interesting.

I don't mean his opinion doesn't matter, I mean that it doesn't matter if Joe is a nice guy or not. All that matters is his results which he delivered in spades (RWCs aside). Some players will always react badly to a coach or his style.

Jump_In_Jack · 22-06-2021 12:13pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I dunno if there's any bombshells in there.

But maybe this interview with Touhy, which does mention Joe, is actually primarily about... Touhy?

I listened to the 12 minute clip that was linked, he talked about his time under Declan Kidney and Joe Schmidt, some ways he was messed around, and he had some bad luck with injuries.
It was an interesting listen overall.
That point just struck me is all.

Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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