Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662174#Comment_121662174

Well I think the point was that he could be really challenging Crowley if he was playing 10 consistently at provincial level.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665953#Comment_121665953

How on earth do we compete with Leinster if we are signing their 5th choice 10.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666146#Comment_121666146

Maybe, but he's 5th choice at Leinster. 5th choice, that's the level we're at. What a load of crap. We're actually getting further away from Leinster not closer. There seriously needs to be some real redirection at Ulster if this is where we are going at the moment.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666232#Comment_121666232

He's not 3rd/4th choice, he's 5th choice. 5th choice! This is like signing those props from Munster and the AIL last year only to discover that low and behold we had a a pretty decent young prop in Scott Wilson.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666996#Comment_121666996

I agree generally with your pov here but there is some nuance to it as well. Your elite players have to be homegrown because generally you aren’t getting them otherwise.

However, the reality of irish rugby is that leinster always have a surplus. So, if you can find some guys who fit our system and can provide good depth, i’m all for it.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667008#Comment_121667008

He is, but he's also about 12. The reality is that there are two very young 10s at Leinster and they have decided on which one to invest in.

Dal Riata Man

The Terenure 10, who won AIL last year is Ulsterman. Surely he's worth a punt? Rather fill the squad out with homegrown players. Love Cooney and Timoney but none of other players coming from other provinces have genuinely improved us.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667900#Comment_121667900

Dooleys gone playing pro in america.

Dal Riata Man

Yeah I think 3 of that Terenure side gone to MLR. Callum Smith is the 10. Played underage rep rugby for Ulster and for Malone in AIL before going to Nure.

Locke_Lamora

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667997#Comment_121667997

He has played for Ulster or Ulster A against the barbarians before.

Not sure he solves any problems though.

Buer

Rewatching the tries last night, I can't help but think there's just an incredible lack of mental strength in Ulster. If things don't go their way, they collapse on the field and it impacts into the next match too. I think the ultimate responsibility lies with the coaching team. They need to be trying to build the culture and the mentality in the squad. They don't have full autonomy over selection/recruitment so there should be fingers pointed at Petrie and Cunningham also. The lack of effort and cohesion in the chase for one of the tries was just silly. Look how disjointed, spread out and sloppy this chase is on a kick. A few passes and Quins were over. It was like a training exercise.

Too many guys there who seem happy to switch off or accept the standards they're playing to. I get the impression that guys are looking to others to take responsibility. I'd have thought someone like Kitshoff was going to be a massive boost to the squad in terms of mentality but that hasn't been felt yet. Was if the final try where the ball just bounced between Sheridan and Warwick and they both hesitated, allowed it sit up and the Quins player just walked in and grabbed it untouched.

The point was made on The Left Wing that there was a bizarre lack of readiness for how Quins play. Quins always play a fast and loose game. The quick throw, the quick tap....that's what they do week in, week out. But Ulster didn't appear to be ready for it at all.

It won't happen because of financial restrictions but McFarland should be shown the door at this point. He has done a good job overall but has gone beyond his peak now comfortably. But I'm not sure that will sort everything in isolation. There are a few guys in that squad that are coasting. They may be seen as great servants or solid players but I'm not sure they're going to bring any significant benefit beyond filling jerseys based on their past. Treadwell, Warwick and AOC all have 150-200 caps. I'm not sure they really are guys that are bringing any steel to proceedings anymore and Ulster would be better served looking beyond them and wouldn't offer guys like AOC or Warwick another contract unless there's no option (or guys like Greg Jones, EOS, Curtis etc if any sort of functional replacement can be found that might not be as talented but is will empty the tank and commit fully on the pitch).

I really don't know how Bryn Cunningham is still in a job though either. He has had a decade there now, time to move on.

typhoony

I'm convinced in 1 or 2 years Ulster will be a force to be reckoned with again based on the fact that they seem to be getting their academy system working with a good batch coming through.

Utah_Saint

Its been mentioned a few times about lack of fund to pay off the coaching team. However I would like to see the calculations for:

Loss of Competition money + Loss of gate receipts <=> Cost to pay out final year of coaching contracts

Ulster usually have top 3 avg attendances in the League, so gate receipts are important to the club finances. If people stop going, especially casual fans, because the product is muck, that's bound to have an affect on decision making.

ulsteru20s

I go between two poles on this constantly.

I feel like we haven’t been producing enough home grown talent (especially in the pack) but at the same time we don’t really have a cohesive identity in terms of playing style. I’d really like to see more synergy between how guys are contracted and how much guys play as well. Like, Cormac Izuchukwu is not playing an amount like a guy on a three year deal.

The talent does seem to be coming with some odd blind spots (what the hell is happening at ten?) but i really don’t believe mcfarland is the guy to develop it.

Edit: i’d also say i have some sympathy. You can’t just play youth blindly. Guys have to be appropriately ready for the time they get. However, i don’t know if i trust mcfarland to make those calls.

launish116

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669003#Comment_121669003

There lies the problem, Ulster are incapable of winning games unless t 90% first choice team plays. We're incapable of providing a platform to develop players. We constantly parachute players in an out dependent of immediate need to never be seen again. We have a number of decent young forwards and number of journeymen who I would expect to of covered some serious S&C since the start of the season who we'll never see.

As for Cormac Izuchukwu, his last showings looked like regression and exactly why is heon a 3 year deal?

Dubinusa

Buer's points are correct. There's a lack of preparation. It's mind boggling. How can this team square up v Leinster and then fall apart v Quins?

Total mismanagement of the squad, imo. This squad is far better than what appeared last week.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121668763#Comment_121668763

I can't argue with any of that Buer.

The lack of mental strength has always been a problem. It's nothing new. It's what separates Munster from Ulster IMO.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669003#Comment_121669003

Some of our best players this year have been young forwards such as Scott Wilson, Harry Sheridan and Dave McCann. Reuben Crothers impressed me in his games and hasn't had a look in since. McNabney played well in his first game and was maybe a little quieter in his next game or two but the potential is there. Joe Hopes appears to be a decent prospect as does Jacob Boyd so there is definitely grounds for optimism in the pack.

I actually think we need to start thinking about what backs are coming through. Lukas Kenny is a big hope and there is Jude Postlethwaite, not sure if there are really any other decent backs coming through? Ethan Graham maybe?

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121672783#Comment_121672783

Ethan Graham, McFarlane. I think we are basically pretty good everywhere except 9 and 10 in terms of guys coming up under the senior players.

The problem is that realistically we are looking at say two more years at least before a critical mass of them are key players.

Edit; Kenny and Postlethwaite have very special potential imo.

Locke_Lamora

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121672758#Comment_121672758

We are front runners and lack players who (although I loathe this term) can take the game by the scuff of the neck. Plenty of guys who look incredible when we're winning and their confidence is high, but they can't shrug off mistakes or play their game when things go wrong or the ball bounce the other way.

Petrie basically admitted to it in his live stream, when we lost those games before christmas last season we capitulated and decided we were going to maul whenever we could. No confidence in the players to play their game or claw their way back. Remember two seasons ago we were cutting Munster open in the knockouts? Can't imagine us playing like that now. Funnily, Ulster put all our tries for each season on youtube at the end of the year and I was watching through them not too long ago thinking 'we were so much more fun to watch a couple of seasons ago.'

Locke_Lamora

https://ulster.rugby/content/ulster-rugby-confirms-angus-curtis-retirement

Angus Curtis retires on medical grounds. Feel awful for him, never managed to throw a couple of games together before getting one horrific injury after another. Probably feels like he didn’t get to make a proper go of it.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674746#Comment_121674746

Seems to suggest concussion related which is terrible.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674746#Comment_121674746

Decent player in fairness. Nice contrast to McCloskey as an option at 12 and thinking about it he always played pretty well when he got a chance. If he had managed to get a run of 5 or 6 games who knows where he could have got to.

Never nice to hear of anyone retiring at a young age, let's hope he has no long term issues. Good luck to him.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121674746#Comment_121674746

Retiring at 25, that's awful. At this stage I hope he can line something up for himself and stay heathy, that's what matters now for him.

conncussed

A question for the Ulster supporters:

Do many of you think that the loss of Jarrad Payne at the end of the 21/22 season was the start of the current malaise? From the outside looking in he seemed to be someone who had incredible respect and drove standards as both a player and a coach. To me it looks like as his influence waned after his departure Ulster lost their way.

I'm a Connacht supporter who had many great memories of Dan's time here but things just don't seem right up there anymore.

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121672758#Comment_121672758

IMHO it starts in the underage rep teams.

Leinster u18 etc want to win. UR move players about, in & out etc all the time. Really strong year groups get split up etc, picking out who UR believe to be the best and taking them out for this and that other thing. Meantime LR want to win everything and UR settle for fighting hard but expecting to lose. Same players move up same result.

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121679810#Comment_121679810

I think that the IRFU should plan to evolve towards a coaching and support set up that doesn't usually involve ex-Ulster players unless they have shown pretty stellar success elsewhere first. I remember the stupidity at the start of professionalism when the Ulster Committee decided that they would continue on to run things as 'normal' while Leinster, Munster and Connacht set up systems that were appropriate for modern rugby. It took years to get rid of the 'Blazerati' and their malign influence...I'm assuming it has been eradicated.

There is still something far too parochial taking place at the lower levels though. A friend of mine and ex-Malone head coach was involved with an underage team. His side made it to the semi-final of their cup. His team won by over 50 points. In the final they also obliterated their opponents by over 50 points. Subsequently, the underage selected players were gathered together for training and coaching sessions. None of his players were involved while most of those from the defeated sides were selected. The coaches from the losing teams happened to be the Ulster appointed underage coaches.

Maybe Ulster need a Cheika like bastardo boss to boot them up the metaphorical Bishop Brennan.

Paul Smeenus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121677896#Comment_121677896

Absolutely. But Peel went as well, just as he was getting what he wanted out of our backs. Payne was out defence coach,and our defence has been significantly worse under Bell. But it was Peel that had our backs purring, slicing teams open and Hume, Baloucoune and Lowry putting in brilliant performances in Europe.

Utah_Saint

You have to wonder how far they went to look for a defense coach. I'd say not much further than Cunninghams phone book.

conncussed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121681829#Comment_121681829

I'd forgotten that Peel left at the same time. Theat backline was really dangerous when he was coaching them.