Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Paul Smeenus

https://www.ulsterrugby.com/preview/carter-to-captain-ulster-versus-leinster/#preview

Ulster team to play Leinster, Guinness PRO14 Round 15, Saturday 29 August at Aviva Stadium (kick-off 7.35pm, live on Premier Sports & eir Sport):

(15-9) Jacob Stockdale, Matt Faddes, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Rob Lyttle, Ian Madigan, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Tom O’Toole, Sam Carter (Capt.), Kieran Treadwell, Matthew Rea, Jordi Murphy, Marcell Coetzee.

Replacements: John Andrew, Kyle McCall, Marty Moore, Alan O’Connor, Nick Timoney, David Shanahan, Bill Johnston, Louis Ludik.

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

https://www.ulsterrugby.com/preview/carter-to-captain-ulster-versus-leinster/#preview

Ulster team to play Leinster, Guinness PRO14 Round 15, Saturday 29 August at Aviva Stadium (kick-off 7.35pm, live on Premier Sports & eir Sport):

(15-9) Jacob Stockdale, Matt Faddes, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Rob Lyttle, Ian Madigan, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Tom O’Toole, Sam Carter (Capt.), Kieran Treadwell, Matthew Rea, Jordi Murphy, Marcell Coetzee.

Replacements: John Andrew, Kyle McCall, Marty Moore, Alan O’Connor, Nick Timoney, David Shanahan, Bill Johnston, Louis Ludik.

A lot stronger than I was expecting

Locke_Lamora

bilston wrote: »

A lot stronger than I was expecting

Rob Lyttle is fit? These truly are unprecedented times, who knows what else 2020 has in store for us...

Clegg

The last few fixtures couldn't have gone worse for Ulster.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1300751577767129094?s=19

launish116

Injury update

Jordi Murphy sustained a concussion in the Round 15 fixture against Leinster and will follow the Return To Play protocols.

Jacob Stockdale and Stuart McCloskey both suffered contusions in last weekend’s game at Aviva Stadium, and their fitness for selection will be monitored during the week.

Squad updates in association with The Ulster Independent Clinic.


Still no word on Milasonvich? Though IRFU has mentioned some A Teams games in September so hopefully he’ll get a run out with some academy players.

bilston

A contusion is a bruise isn't it?

We could be talking about dead legs then. Losing those three would be devastating.

Paul Smeenus

So. Does that mean we're Tier One in this crazy Euro set-up for next season?

sydthebeat

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

So. Does that mean we're Tier One in this crazy Euro set-up for next season?

Yes.

ionadnapokot

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1303677515354046464?s=20

Toulouse have been granted permission to have 5,000 people attend this weekend's Top 14 clash with La Rochelle.

So unless there is change in the local authorities' stance, likely to be same again for the Ulster game.

Buer

FYI, Tekori and Arnold have their disciplinary hearings today which will determine whether they're suspended for the Ulster game or not. Tekori almost certain to be missing after he whacked Fritz Lee in the mush.

Paul Smeenus

Saw someone else linking to this. Decent listen - Cave, Hook and Barclay are likeable without being too blokey; lots of ripping the derriere out of each other, but also some genuine insights and really interesting thoughts.

Barclay particular offers up a brilliant observation about Edinburgh and why thye couldn't find an answer when Ulster varied how they played. Not enough leaders on the pitch, because Cockerill is such a dominant character in the set-up. While most teams have leadership groups and players who contribute to decisions about who the team want to be and how they want to play, Edinburgh are effectively dictated to, which meant they struggled with leadership and direction in that last twenty. (This is a man who was playing with Edinburgh up until last season).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRuJVj9zsVU&ab_channel=PRO14Rugby

Buer

Buer wrote: »

FYI, Tekori and Arnold have their disciplinary hearings today which will determine whether they're suspended for the Ulster game or not. Tekori almost certain to be missing after he whacked Fritz Lee in the mush.

Surprised I haven't seen it discussed already but Tekori and Arnold were both handed a 1 week suspension meaning they miss this weekend but return for Ulster.

Complete shenanigans.

Bazzo

Buer wrote: »

Surprised I haven't seen it discussed already but Tekori and Arnold were both handed a 1 week suspension meaning they miss this weekend but return for Ulster.

Complete shenanigans.

Isn't the hearing supposed to be a very legal and independent process? There seem to be far too many farcical bans for that to be true(or I have far too much faith in the legal process).

Not just singling out the French either, it's the same in Ireland and England and the sonny bill fiasco in New Zealand was another joke.

sydthebeat

Buer wrote: »

Surprised I haven't seen it discussed already but Tekori and Arnold were both handed a 1 week suspension meaning they miss this weekend but return for Ulster.

Complete shenanigans.

Competely non sensical that tekori gets one week for that hit, yet siole piutau gets three weeks for his self defense.

Different rules for the same charge

bilston

Hendy!!!

bilston

7 Ulster born and 8 Ulster bred players in the starting XV for the final.

That's a positive step forward.

Buer

Bazzo wrote: »

Isn't the hearing supposed to be a very legal and independent process? There seem to be far too many farcical bans for that to be true(or I have far too much faith in the legal process).

Not just singling out the French either, it's the same in Ireland and England and the sonny bill fiasco in New Zealand was another joke.

It's all a bit of a joke at this stage. The upcoming fixture list has a significant impact on the decision. If you want a laugh/shock, watch Tekori's hit back last season where he knocked an opposition player out cold with a shoulder to the head. He got a yellow card. The recipient was stretchered off with his neck immobilised and didn't play again for a month.

Hearing determined that he had no reason to be suspended, yellow card was sufficient and he was made available immediately....the week of Toulouse playing in the European SF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPliAnaBpNk

Paul Smeenus

So. Big final.

Seven Ulster-born lads in the starting team - Lowry, Lyttle, Hume, McCloskey, Stockdale, Henderson, Rea.
One lad who came to Ulster as a schoolboy (O'Toole).
Two products of the Academy born elsewhere in the island (O'Sullivan and O'Connor).

Definitely moving in the right direction.

awec

What can I say, I’m not even that arsed any more. I’m not even a bit annoyed, which is bizarre.

The game ended as soon as Henshaw scored his try.

Gap is getting wider.

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

What can I say, I’m not even that arsed any more. I’m not even a bit annoyed, which is bizarre.

The game ended as soon as Henshaw scored his try.

Gap is getting wider.

I'm not actually sure thats true tbh. I think some better game management in the first half could have made the second very different. Leinster going into the sheds having absorbed a huge amount of pressure without conceding a point in the second quarter was huge. Ulster simply needed to take the kicks at goal on offer. They do that and go in, say, 10-9 down and its a different game.

In the end, Leinster tails were up coming back out on the pitch after the break. No doubt the half time talk was centred around a "you got this" message given how they kept Ulster out so well. With some daylight on the scoreboard and confidence in what they were doing, things like the intercept come easier. Conversely Ulster simply put more pressure on themselves by not taking points.

I thought Ulster had a good handle on how to pressure our defence. The pace combined with tip ons and offloads at times caused us problems, but Mathewson clearly slowed as the first half went on. His box kicking too was great but he just couldn't keep his performance levels up. Had he been able to, that would have helped too. Certainly in the first half there were small things that are in Ulster's power to change that could have made the second half very different. Remember, we're only 18 months or so from the HEC QF where Ulster ran Leinster very, very close.

Utah_Saint

awec wrote: »

What can I say, I’m not even that arsed any more. I’m not even a bit annoyed, which is bizarre.

The game ended as soon as Henshaw scored his try.

Gap is getting wider.

Felt the same to be honest. Can't see anyone beating Leinster in Pro XX for a very long time. Makes the competition feel a bit pointless. That's not Leinster's problem though. All the other teams need raise the standard or start losing paying punter's

Paul Smeenus

We went to the corner for three very kickable penalties in the first half. We needed to take the points and keep Leinster under pressure. Not the difference between winning and losing, but certainly Leinster looked less edgy after they'd repelled us three times and we'd nothing to show for our pressure.

bilston

Aye, if we'd taken our kicks we could could have been 14-10 up at half time. I realise neither Cooney or Madigan were on the pitch, but two of those kickable penalties were very kickable. Burns could have kicked them, Rob Lyttle is a very good kicker, Stuart McCloskey has kicked in the past and James Hume kicked at school. There was no reason why they couldn't have got them.

Leinster cranked it up in the second half though, there was a 10 to 15 minute period were no one could have lived with them.

Its hard to know how you break that Leinster defence down. You probably need a couple of huge ball carriers to try and generate quicker ball and maybe a better tactical kicking game (ROG in the 2000s springs to mind). Ulster don't have any of that in their armoury. To be fair I don't think anyone in the Pro 14 does.

Some positives though...Hendy was back and was good, the lineout was solid and I thought Carter did well from the bench which is encouraging, also McCloskey and Hume both played well. Hume has possibly been the breakout player of the season. His form pre injury was excellent and now I'd say it will be a tight selection call when Marshall returns.

launish116

Score and outcome aside. Proud of that side, kept throwing the sink. Leinster will go on to win Euro and really put in perspective how good their squad is. Currently no team has an academy close to that standard and that will be a problem for many a seasons to come.

Positives:
- there was a want and effort there
- Henderson back and getting match time
- Hume developing nicely
- Front row, we have a real find in O’Toole
- Lyttle longest run injury free?
- Carter seemed to up his game from what we’ve seen. Hoping he can now set that as a standard going forward.

Negatives
- Penetration/ball carrying, as much as I like Rea, we need a better 6
- Cooney’s boxing kick is to long
- McGrath looks off the pace by final whistle
- one out runners
- teams tailoring game plans to nullify Coetzee

Personally I’d prefer if we were out of Europe and spent next three weeks preparing for the next season.

Where do we go from here?

Clegg

bilston wrote: »

Aye, if we'd taken our kicks we could could have been 14-10 up at half time. I realise neither Cooney or Madigan were on the pitch, but two of those kickable penalties were very kickable. Burns could have kicked them, Rob Lyttle is a very good kicker, Stuart McCloskey has kicked in the past and James Hume kicked at school. There was no reason why they couldn't have got them.

Leinster cranked it up in the second half though, there was a 10 to 15 minute period were no one could have lived with them.

Its hard to know how you break that Leinster defence down. You probably need a couple of huge ball carriers to try and generate quicker ball and maybe a better tactical kicking game (ROG in the 2000s springs to mind). Ulster don't have any of that in their armoury. To be fair I don't think anyone in the Pro 14 does.

Some positives though...Hendy was back and was good, the lineout was solid and I thought Carter did well from the bench which is encouraging, also McCloskey and Hume both played well. Hume has possibly been the breakout player of the season. His form pre injury was excellent and now I'd say it will be a tight selection call when Marshall returns.

I actually thought Ulster did well in this area during the first half. Whether it was through a tip on pass to shift the point of contact, or an offload just after being tackled, Ulster punched holes in Leinster's defence, got quick ball and made good metres against a retreating side.

But Leinster made a few tweaks after 20 minutes and upped their line speed. Made it very hard for Ulster to gain any sort of momentum. Liam Toland also made the point that Ulsters forwards looked knacked after half an hour. Certainly something to discuss as it was noticeable to me how often Leinster got over Ulster ball and won penalties at the breakdown. Ulster were slow to get there at times.

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Score and outcome aside. Proud of that side, kept throwing the sink. Leinster will go on to win Euro and really put in perspective how good their squad is. Currently no team has an academy close to that standard and that will be a problem for many a seasons to come.

Positives:
- there was a want and effort there
- Henderson back and getting match time
- Hume developing nicely
- Front row, we have a real find in O’Toole
- Lyttle longest run injury free?
- Carter seemed to up his game from what we’ve seen. Hoping he can now set that as a standard going forward.

Negatives
- Penetration/ball carrying, as much as I like Rea, we need a better 6
- Cooney’s boxing kick is to long
- McGrath looks off the pace by final whistle
- one out runners
- teams tailoring game plans to nullify Coetzee

Personally I’d prefer if we were out of Europe and spent next three weeks preparing for the next season.

Where do we go from here?

Onwards and upwards.

Wishing we were out of Europe is, imho, a bit insane in the ol' membrane. The more high-pressure games against good opposition we have, the better.

Edinburgh demonstrated exactly how costly having a poor mentality can be. It's hard enough breaking down big teams' defences in sheer rugby terms, without mentally crumbling under pressure due to stage fright. The more knockout games the lads coming through experience, the better.

I think Toulouse will be too good for us, but that's three knockout games in a row we'll have played. Exhausting, bruising, yes, but while the loss last night will have been demoralising, if we put in a good performance against Toulouse and take away some positives, or indeed look like we can win it, there will probably be more mental positives than negatives out of the end of this season. If you don't feel like you belong in these games, you won't win silverware. I feel like Ulster do belong there, and I'm sure our players do to.

I'm really excited about next season, because I want to see the likes of Allison, McCann, Rea Jr, and maybe one of our young scrumhalves break through. We'll see them against the weaker teams in the ProWhatever, and I can't wait. We've been fairly ruthless with young lads who don't look like they'll be much better than "can do a job". Kernohan is gone, as is McPhiliips and, I think, Johnny Stewart. So it's reasonable to hope these young lads can make the step up, if the management is showing faith in them.

We have gone from having a play-off game to earn European rugby a couple of seasons ago, to having (at least!) five knockout games in the last two seasons.

As we finish the second season of a projected five-season rebuild, I'm happy with that.

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Onwards and upwards.

Wishing we were out of Europe is, imho, a bit insane in the ol' membrane. The more high-pressure games against good opposition we have, the better.

Edinburgh demonstrated exactly how costly having a poor mentality can be. It's hard enough breaking down big teams' defences in sheer rugby terms, without mentally crumbling under pressure due to stage fright. The more knockout games the lads coming through experience, the better.

I think Toulouse will be too good for us, but that's three knockout games in a row we'll have played. Exhausting, bruising, yes, but while the loss last night will have been demoralising, if we put in a good performance against Toulouse and take away some positives, or indeed look like we can win it, there will probably be more mental positives than negatives out of the end of this season. If you don't feel like you belong in these games, you won't win silverware. I feel like Ulster do belong there, and I'm sure our players do to.

I'm really excited about next season, because I want to see the likes of Allison, McCann, Rea Jr, and maybe one of our young scrumhalves break through. We'll see them against the weaker teams in the ProWhatever, and I can't wait. We've been fairly ruthless with young lads who don't look like they'll be much better than "can do a job". Kernohan is gone, as is McPhiliips and, I think, Johnny Stewart. So it's reasonable to hope these young lads can make the step up, if the management is showing faith in them.

We have gone from having a play-off game to earn European rugby a couple of seasons ago, to having (at least!) five knockout games in the last two seasons.

As we finish the second season of a projected five-season rebuild, I'm happy with that.

Agree with what your saying.

Just worry with such a long layoff, literally no preseason etc. This has been a bruising few weeks both mentally and physically. It’s already showing (few players already heavily strapped) and looking exhausted. Toulouse will be a completely different animal next week, bigger, more physical and with offloading flare. They’ve been very good since the restart, even almost turning Clermont over at home whilst been a man down most of the game if I’m correct?
Do get what your saying, but something is telling we have no Major injuries. Focus on integraing new players and prepare for the new season. May be a tad defeatist, but hey what do I know.

Also excited what this season could bring especially with Dan and the academy. You can only look at Leinster with envy! That being it’s time for Alison, McCann (truly excited for him), Rea Jnr to make a step up. If they can’t serious questions need to be asked and answered on why our forwards can’t make the leap. I’d happily forgo a season of big signings to correct this.

Ultimately we’re definitely on an upwards trajectory under Dan. But until the prementioned academy players start challenging and rotation can be done without the reliance on Coetzee/McCloskey week in week out we’l struggle. Still think it be at least one more season till we have the full depth required and at that then we will being losing players.

awec

launish116 wrote: »

Agree with what your saying.

Just worry with such a long layoff, literally no preseason etc. This has been a bruising few weeks both mentally and physically. It’s already showing (few players already heavily strapped) and looking exhausted. Toulouse will be a completely different animal next week, bigger, more physical and with offloading flare. They’ve been very good since the restart, even almost turning Clermont over at home whilst been a man down most of the game if I’m correct?
Do get what your saying, but something is telling we have no Major injuries. Focus on integraing new players and prepare for the new season. May be a tad defeatist, but hey what do I know.

Also excited what this season could bring especially with Dan and the academy. You can only look at Leinster with envy! That being it’s time for Alison, McCann (truly excited for him), Rea Jnr to make a step up. If they can’t serious questions need to be asked and answered on why our forwards can’t make the leap. I’d happily forgo a season of big signings to correct this.

Ultimately we’re definitely on an upwards trajectory under Dan. But until the prementioned academy players start challenging and rotation can be done without the reliance on Coetzee/McCloskey week in week out we’l struggle. Still think it be at least one more season till we have the full depth required and at that then we will being losing players.

One more season? One season is not going to change a lot. We’ll get a bit better and so will leinster.

Honest question, do you see anyone other than Leinster winning the Pro14 next year? I don’t, I’d say you’d get cracking odds at the bookies on any of the other 13 teams.

launish116

awec wrote: »

One more season? One season is not going to change a lot. We’ll get a bit better and so will leinster.

Honest question, do you see anyone other than Leinster winning the Pro14 next year? I don’t, I’d say you’d get cracking odds at the bookies on any of the other 13 teams.

Apologies what I meant it’ll be atleast one more season before McCann, Allison etc could be truely fighting for regular game time. For Ulster we won’t really make another noticeable step up until we become more sustainable I believe. Credit to Dan for what’s he’s done with what we have.

But your right Leinster are out of reach for the foreseeable and must be plauded for it. Jackman made a good point last night Re. Leinster A v Leinster B in training is pretty much superior to anything the Pro 14 currently offers. Issue being this doesn’t translate to Ireland. This is were I eventually see the IFRU will get more and more involved and we’ve seen it this incoming season already with the pillaging of academy players for other provinces. Secondly this gap is only going to get bigger and realistically only the Scottish seem to be improving. Ultimately this going to be detrimental towards the Pro 14 long term

Paul Smeenus

We'll see. In the immediate future, they're pretty much untouchable. When Lancaster moves on, that might not be the case.