Parents who continue sending their kids to a school knowing they are being bullied

Church on Tuesday

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But school-bullies (sic) are children too. Often they are acting out of having ****ty background themselves, and not having been taught how to treat people well. They are being bullied by parents, neighbours or older siblings, and they are simply acting out of what they know.

Explusion is really just bullying them: using power to systematically exclude them.

The only way to break the cycle is to teach them to behave better - and convince them that doing so it worthwhile. This ain't easy. But it's the only realistic option.

Often when a school appears to be doing "nothing" - it's because confidentiality means they cannot share with your details about the perpetrator's difficult home / family life, and what the school is doing to help.





So he bullied you - and you physically bullied him back. You were a bully too.





Again - that would be bullying the child who had not learned how to behave properly, instead of teaching him/her how to do so.

I have to say I disagree with this.

If the child can't get discipline in the home, then he or she has to receive some kind of discipline in the school.

Harsh perhaps, but there you go. You have to have control in the classroom and be mindful of the other students at the same time.

We all went to schools were kids who bullied had issues at home. We as kids could spot it at the time and you can be sure teachers could too.

In cases like that it is a very tricky situation. The only thing really a teacher can do is express his or her concern to management and see what can be done from there.

And then conversely we have all gone to school with kids who come from what you may call a respectable household who bully.

Another poster here put it best when they said that there are any amount of variables as to why kids bully. In some cases it's acting out, in others it is much more psychological.

Zorya

Dravokivich wrote: »

Are you missing something? The child has a right to the education. Most parents do not have the means to home school. Without the means to do so, they must attend a school.

Are you missing something?
What an oddly worded unpleasantry.

Gimme A Pound

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But school-bullies (sic) are children too. Often they are acting out of having ****ty background themselves, and not having been taught how to treat people well. They are being bullied by parents, neighbours or older siblings, and they are simply acting out of what they know.

Explusion is really just bullying them: using power to systematically exclude them.

The only way to break the cycle is to teach them to behave better - and convince them that doing so it worthwhile. This ain't easy. But it's the only realistic option.

Often when a school appears to be doing "nothing" - it's because confidentiality means they cannot share with your details about the perpetrator's difficult home / family life, and what the school is doing to help.





So he bullied you - and you physically bullied him back. You were a bully too.





Again - that would be bullying the child who had not learned how to behave properly, instead of teaching him/her how to do so.

This just looks like going against the grain for the sake of it. And it's dismissive and deflecting. Bullies are responsible for their own behaviour.

You did not bully anyone Faugheen - you stood up for yourself because you couldn't take anymore. And well done you. Very brave. And delighted it worked out for you, despite the school's loathsome way of dealing with it.

XMG

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Bottom line is that in most schools there will be some kind of aggro of a surface level. Kids need to learn how to deal with this and develop resilience because they will need those skills in the real world. It's a kind of unofficial subject on the school curriculum in a way.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I don't condone bullying.

It's a fact of life. Bullying has been going on since the dawn of mankind. It's essential that kids develop a thick skin and a toughness, otherwise how are they going to strike out on their own in life?

Ideally you kick the bully out of the school in severe cases. But most cases of bullying aren't severe, hence the need to toughen up a little and give as good back.

valoren wrote: »

Part of parenting is to teach your children how to deal with bullies. That includes teaching them jabs, right hooks, uppercuts, eye gouging, kicking and a whole litany of physically violent reactions.

Except some kids can't, as you say develop a tough skin, toughen up a little or learn how to deal with bullies.

You would probably enjoy a conversation with two friends of mine, the parents of a dead 12 year old girl due to bullying. All went to bed one evening and the mother got up to get her daughter up for school. She wasn't lying in her bed though, she was lying at the bottom of their block of flats, snuck out in the middle of the night and ended her anguish.

Her parents knew she had some issues at school, her being a western girl in an Asian school and had addressed it with her teachers, who brushed it off as not being very serious. She had no other problems until she started her new school, became slightly withdrawn, stopped going to ballet class but was still a fairly happy-go-lucky little girl. She had a great relationship with her parents and was always open with them about her problems, apart from the bullying. They've kept her iphone fully charged for a few years now as they are convinced there is evidence in there, but it's locked.

Maybe you could point out where they went wrong perhaps?

Church on Tuesday

XMG wrote: »

Except some kids can't, as you say develop a tough skin, toughen up a little or learn how to deal with bullies.

You would probably enjoy a conversation with two friends of mine, the parents of a dead 12 year old girl due to bullying. All went to bed one evening and the mother got up to get her daughter up for school. She wasn't lying in her bed though, she was lying at the bottom of their block of flats, snuck out in the middle of the night and ended her anguish.

Her parents knew she had some issues at school, her being a western girl in an Asian school and had addressed it with her teachers, who brushed it off as not being very serious. She had no other problems until she started her new school, became slightly withdrawn, stopped going to ballet class but was still a fairly happy-go-lucky little girl. She had a great relationship with her parents and was always open with them about her problems, apart from the bullying. They've kept her iphone fully charged for a few years now as they are convinced there is evidence in there, but it's locked.

Maybe you could point out where they went wrong perhaps?

Classy. Go you.

They should have removed her from the school ideally. That's a tragic circumstance though and ultimately the school let the family down.

Mrs OBumble

Walter Rough Nag wrote: »

Mrs O Bumble in "tediously against the grain and unpleasant" shocker. Only the other day she was condemning when a criminal's difficult background is brought up.

https://www.boards.ie/...12&postcount=161

What kind of person completely contradicts themselves in a matter of days?
....


This just looks like going against the grain for the sake of it. And it's dismissive and deflecting. Bullies are responsible for their own behaviour.

Do you really not understand the difference between children and adults, and why children are not held responsible for their own behaviour in the same way that adults are???

Children who bully are first and foremost children. They are as entitled to education ad their victims are. No more - but no less either.

Gimme A Pound

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Do you really not understand the difference between children and adults, and why children are not held responsible for their own behaviour in the same way that adults are???

Children who bully are first and foremost children. They are as entitled to education as their victims are. No more - but no less either.

They are also responsible for their own behaviour and they have responsibilities in how they conduct themselves on a school's property also. It's extremely rare for expulsion to occur anyway. They are given plenty of chances.

Deflecting from their behaviour does a disservice to their victims, and no, Faugheen did not bully (another deflection) - they acted in self defence.

Faugheen

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So he bullied you - and you physically bullied him back. You were a bully too

I didn't make his life a living hell for almost two years. I defended myself in the hope that it would stop. Funnily enough, asking him to stop didn't help, it just led to him slapping me in the face and laughing at me for being so pathetic in thinking that would solve the problem.

I'm not saying fighting back is always the answer, but don't you dare call me a bully when

1. I was trying to make it all stop
2. You weren't even f*cking there.

I was afraid to leave my house because of that arsehole. Two years of the point of my life where I'm supposed to be learning and developing social skills, interacting more with the opposite sex, whatever most 14/15 year olds do because of him and his cronies.

I'm not sorry for what I did and, if I was found in the same situation as a 14 year old, I would do it again. That doesn't make me a bully. Don't you dare suggest otherwise when you weren't there.

v638sg7k1a92bx

VinLieger wrote: »

Hilarious that you think its that simple and easy to just move a child from school to school

Case in point.

Why do you jump to the assumption that the child needs to be moved from school to school? You seem to suggest that the problem is inherently with the kid being picked on.

v638sg7k1a92bx

victor8600 wrote: »

Sure you would. If you had children and a ready access to schools who are just eager to get your kid at a moment's notice. You do know that some parents enroll their child into their preferred school as soon as the child is born? Do you think you would just walk into any school and they'd say, 'sure, your kid can start tomorrow'?

Let me give you a choice -- work with the principal to hopefully deal with the bulling in the current school, or leave your job to stay at home with your child until the next academic year when there is a space in a school 30 minutes drive away?

That's an easy choice, I take my kids out of the school.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Danzy wrote: »

Depending on the circumstances but your approach sounds like being a disaster for the child.

Could it be any worse than sending them to school to be bullied and tormented everyday?

Edgware

I know of a bullying case. The victims older brother met the chief bully on the way home, gave him the works and told him that he was now responsible for making sure the young lad was not to be bullied by anyone or else there would be a repeat. It took a few meetings but he got the idea and moved on to some other victim

killanena

I'm 25 bit back in 3rd year my best friend at the time was getting a really rough time off a new lad that had just moved to our town / school. To the point he'd rather fake being sick or maybe even actually felt sick then rather come into school. He got bullied for being gay even though he wasn't. He just didn't act all masculine and wasn't into sports etc.

I came forward with his parents as a witness and the school took it very seriously. They suspended the bully for a few weeks and upon returning he went straight back to picking on my friend. Immediately got expelled.

My secondary school was a community college and fair play to them for bashing bullying on the head.

I have a 3 year old daughter, even though she is not in school yet the idea of anyone bulling her makes my blood boil. If we ever had issues I would be in that school daily until it was sorted, failing that I'd be getting a solicitor involved.

Church on Tuesday

Faugheen wrote: »

I didn't make his life a living hell for almost two years. I defended myself in the hope that it would stop. Funnily enough, asking him to stop didn't help, it just led to him slapping me in the face and laughing at me for being so pathetic in thinking that would solve the problem.

I'm not saying fighting back is always the answer, but don't you dare call me a bully when

1. I was trying to make it all stop
2. You weren't even f*cking there.

I was afraid to leave my house because of that arsehole. Two years of the point of my life where I'm supposed to be learning and developing social skills, interacting more with the opposite sex, whatever most 14/15 year olds do because of him and his cronies.

I'm not sorry for what I did and, if I was found in the same situation as a 14 year old, I would do it again. That doesn't make me a bully. Don't you dare suggest otherwise when you weren't there.

Do you mind if I ask did you or your parents raise the issue with the school? You may have mentioned it in an earlier post

Dravokivich

Zorya wrote: »

Are you missing something?
What an oddly worded unpleasantry.

I cant help how brittle you seem to feel.

Lotus Flower

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So he bullied you - and you physically bullied him back. You were a bully too.

Despicable comment- do you have any idea of the devastating impact bullying can have on someone, often lasting for years long after the bullying has occurred?

Faugheen

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Do you mind if I ask did you or your parents raise the issue with the school? You may have mentioned it in an earlier post

No, I was afraid to. Didn't want to be seen as 'a rat' and other lame excuses in hindsight.

Make no mistake, the school knew about it. I won't go into the details, but they absolutely knew about it.

Zorya

Dravokivich wrote: »

I cant help how brittle you seem to feel.

:pac:

Zorya

Faugheen wrote: »

No, I was afraid to. Didn't want to be seen as 'a rat' and other lame excuses in hindsight.

Make no mistake, the school knew about it. I won't go into the details, but they absolutely knew about it.

You don't have to justify yourself to anyone.
You did nothing wrong.

Church on Tuesday

Faugheen wrote: »

No, I was afraid to. Didn't want to be seen as 'a rat' and other lame excuses in hindsight.

Make no mistake, the school knew about it. I won't go into the details, but they absolutely knew about it.

A lot of schools will turn a blind eye to this kind of stuff, which is totally wrong.

The school I attended was much the same, a faded name living off of past reputation often pride comes before the fall with some places. It was tough.

I've no doubt in my mind that your school was aware of it; teachers are trained to be observant at all times, it's literally their job.

I've witnessed instances where teachers have literally walked by students who were in distress.

lawred2

I was bullied on and off for a while in school - I was quite short for my age.

All came to a head after months and months one day in gym - playing football - main lad repeatedly kept trying to slyly trip me up almost every time I had the ball.

Said stop a few times - obviously he laughed in my face (well not just him - his lacky followers too). This carried on until I quite literally snapped - turned and twatted him square in the nose. Nose burst open. Blood everywhere. His lackies disappeared. Your man looked around a few times and then just walked off out of the gym.

That was the last time I was picked on. Thing is - he could have given me a complete hiding - he was definitely physically capable of it. But he didn't and that was that.

Church on Tuesday

lawred2 wrote: »

I was bullied on and off for a while in school - I was quite short for my age.

All came to a head after months and months one day in gym - playing football - main lad repeatedly kept trying to slyly trip me up almost every time I had the ball.

Said stop a few times - obviously he laughed in my face (well not just him - his lacky followers too). This carried on until I quite literally snapped - turned and twatted him square in the nose. Nose burst open. Blood everywhere. His lackies disappeared. Your man looked around a few times and then just walked off out of the gym.

That was the last time I was picked on. Thing is - he could have given me a complete hiding - he was definitely physically capable of it. But he didn't and that was that.

The thing with bullies is 9/10 they are trying to get a rise out of you.

You either just ignore (which drives bullies mental BTW) give as good back verbally or you do what you did and stand up for yourself.

I really wouldn't recommend physical violence TBH. But I wouldn't judge either.

For students who can't stand up for themselves for whatever reason (and there can be many reasons) and if it's severe then that's when the school has to step in.

I mentioned it before but social media bullying is quite a thing now and with that aspect of bullying it follows the victim home long after the school day has finished.

killanena

Why do some people get so offended when people say they stuck up for themselves physically failing all else?
Maybe they were never in a similar situation or maybe they have been physically abused or bullied themselves and can't bare the idea of doing it to others.

As a species we are prone to violence and there are people out here who don't understand anything else..

In my honest opinion its fair to meet a physical treat or attack with reasonable force.

Church on Tuesday

killanena wrote: »

Why do some people get so offended when people say they stuck up for themselves physically failing all else?
Maybe they were never in a similar situation or maybe they have been physically abused or bullied themselves and can't bare the idea of doing it to others.

As a species we are prone to violence and there are people out here who don't understand anything else..

In my honest opinion its fair to meet a physical treat or attack with reasonable force.

Yes and No.

In the school environment you are trying to instill some degree of decency, responsibility and mutual respect upon students.

The first school is the home. In the family home these values should already be set in stone, although that depends sadly sometimes on the quality of that home.

In the adult world I would say it's fair, even essential, to be able to look after yourself upon threat of physical attack. In the school environment you ideally do not want that scenario playing out. It's supposed to be, in the main, a controlled environment.

Its about trying to put out into the world decent and morally centered young adults along with providing them with a decent education and understanding.

There will be many though who sadly slip through the cracks.

bodhrandude

Faugheen wrote: »

I was once suspended for 'fighting back' after about 2 years of it.

One day it all came to a head and I snapped, and I was caught punching the bully multiple times in the face to the point where he needed hospital treatment (he needed stitches, he wasn't in any life-threatening danger).

Basically because I told the principal that I'd do it again in the circumstances, he saw that as me having no remorse and they were left with no option but to suspend me, and my case was brought before the Board of Management for possible expulsion.

Thankfully, the Board saw sense and actually listened to what me and my parents had to say. There were also parents of other lads in my class who stood up on my behalf. The suspension stood but I wasn't expelled.

I had to apologise, but the bully didn't because like a coward he and his cronies denied everything.

However, I never had a problem with bullying after that, and the school started to up its game with regards to dealing with bullying.

TL;DR - some schools bullying policy was completely backwards, I wouldn't be surprised if it's still the case elsewhere.

Same, I was in a tough secondary school in Glasgow in the late seventies and was being bullied for a number of years, it all came to a head one day when three guys were pelting my head with mud rocks in the playground and I just exploded and hospitalised the three of them, I got suspended and my mother went down the next day and ranted at the principal. I had to attend a psychiatry class at another school one afternoon a week for the next year as I was seen as the the problem. Needless to say no one bothered me too much after that.

Roger Hassenforder

Theres a balance between teaching your kids resiliance, and being able to stick up for themselves. Theres also a time when parents need to step in when the kid isnt coping.

My kids know they'll be severely punished if they throw the first or third slap. They've my "permission" to throw the second. Ideally they use their wits though.

A lot of people seem to be relying on the school to sort out bullying. But with social media etc now it can be relentless. Suspending the bully might only move it out of the school into the street/playground. Parents need to do more. Not abdicate responsibility.

Sometimes a punch in the face does a lot more than bullying victim awareness classes. Theres no right answer, but i think violence and/or threat of it is the answer in a lot of cases. Not all, but a lot.

Bullying is every fcuking where. Its possibly a human nature in some. That doesnt mean its should be accepted. But we shouldnt be naive about it thinking we can eradicate it somehow.
"Yadda yadda but the bully is being bullied". Fcuk the bully. Its the victim needs the support.


I had case of bullying in a tough enough primary school. Chap used to pick on me regularly. I was small, skinny with glasses, and fairly clever (not any more. Any of them). Bully one day threw paint on my lovely panther (tank) painting , and turned around to his friends laughing. They failed to warn him about the chair about to be bate of his head. Repeatedly.
Not another peep ever again.
Can see it like yesterday almost 35 years later!

El_Bee

I think there are people in here who confuse a big of slagging they got when they were kids to bullying and are coming out with the "well kids need to toughen up, I got bullied and I was fine" bull****. Bullying DESTROYS children, it is constant, physical, psychological abuse, often coordinated between several children. The damage never heals, having witnessed first hand the effects on more than one child, it's sick disgusting and evil. Expulsion should be mandatory, and I'd 100% be in favour of the parents being fully liable and having to pay damages to the victims and their family.

Church on Tuesday

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Theres a balance between teaching your kids resiliance, and being able to stick up for themselves. Theres also a time when parents need to step in when the kid isnt coping.

My kids know they'll be severely punished if they throw the first or third slap. They've my "permission" to throw the second. Ideally they use their wits though.

A lot of people seem to be relying on the school to sort out bullying. But with social media etc now it can be relentless. Suspending the bully might only move it out of the school into the street/playground. Parents need to do more. Not abdicate responsibility.

Sometimes a punch in the face does a lot more than bullying victim awareness classes. Theres no right answer, but i think violence and/or threat of it is the answer in a lot of cases. Not all, but a lot.

Bullying is every fcuking where. Its possibly a human nature in some. That doesnt mean its should be accepted. But we shouldnt be naive about it thinking we can eradicate it somehow.
"Yadda yadda but the bully is being bullied". Fcuk the bully. Its the victim needs the support.


I had case of bullying in a tough enough primary school. Chap used to pick on me regularly. I was small, skinny with glasses, and fairly clever (not any more. Any of them). Bully one day threw paint on my lovely panther (tank) painting , and turned around to his friends laughing. They failed to warn him about the chair about to be bate of his head. Repeatedly.
Not another peep ever again.
Can see it like yesterday almost 35 years later!

Exactly the point I've been trying to make.

Church on Tuesday

El_Bee wrote: »

I think there are people in here who confuse a big of slagging they got when they were kids to bullying and are coming out with the "well kids need to toughen up, I got bullied and I was fine" bull****. Bullying DESTROYS children, it is constant, physical, psychological abuse, often coordinated between several children. The damage never heals, having witnessed first hand the effects on more than one child, it's sick disgusting and evil. Expulsion should be mandatory, and I'd 100% be in favour of the parents being fully liable and having to pay damages to the victims and their family.

Yup, I take your point there and I think that's the case here; I'd fall into the first category rather than the second myself, got plenty of snide comments and a bit of intimidation but I did witness some of my friends being bullied pretty badly.

In terms of systematic bullying, well that's just completely wrong and vile and I'd support the parents of said bully being liable to pay damages like you said.

Overall I think schools could do more to stamp out serious instances of bullying. A lot of teachers just turn a blind eye.

Roger Hassenforder

El_Bee wrote: »

Expulsion should be mandatory, and I'd 100% be in favour of the parents being fully liable and having to pay damages to the victims and their family.

I dont disagree with you, but how do you deal with it outside of a school?
E.g. on a street between kids?