Patrick Quirke -Guilty

jimwallace197

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

No but I think its possible she could have witnessed it, heard the scuffle in the yard, ran down and found Ryan dead on the ground. Quirke then convinced her to keep quiet and say he'll take care of the body. Through either fear or shock she complies and says nothing, worried she'll be somehow implicated

I think thats reaching now in fairness.

BarryD2

jimwallace197 wrote: »

Its not so much whether he was Guilty or not, its the fact he was convicted on purely circumstantial evidence and the chief witness was unreliable in the extreme. He is entitled to the presumption of innocence unless his guilt can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

This sets a dangerous precedence in our Judicial system Imo & we all know that the guards can manipulate and paint a picture of someones guilt if they want to. People are all capable of wild internet searches, just because a man was unfaithful doesn't mean he a murderer, etc, etc. Take the Maurice McCabe case for example. When we go down this road, what next or who next for that matter.

I'm inclined to agree and I think this is what many people are missing. You could get caught up in the finer details of the case but when you stand back and look at it baldly, there is no clear evidence that links Quirke to the actual murder of Ryan. And that basic fact is what the public should be concerned about.

It's not good enough to say, well someone murdered him and who else could have done it, therefore he's guilty.

Stacksofwacks

Vicarious Function wrote: »

Agree it's a possible scenario, Stacksofwacks. Personally, I don't think she would have the mental capability of living with that for two years. No offence meant to Mary L! I think it would be a very rare person, apart from P. Quirke, who would have the mental capability of living with that for two years.

You'd be surprised what self preservation could do for ones mental capacity.

monkeybutter

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

No but I think its possible she could have witnessed it, heard the scuffle in the yard, ran down and found Ryan dead on the ground. Quirke then convinced her to keep quiet and say he'll take care of the body. Through either fear or shock she complies and says nothing, worried she'll be somehow implicated

ah, shed hardly by in on it in that scenario?




top be in on it, shed have to have something to do with the murder for him to somehow take her down, which is what was being discussed

Vicarious Function

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

You'd be surprised what self preservation could do for ones mental capacity.

LOL! You're right, Stacksofwacks. Nevertheless, I think the stress of all of that would cause her to have a mental breakdown within that time-frame. Giving evidence, she seemed quite self-possessed. If she was hiding such a huge "secret", I think it would show physically on her delivery of evidence. Breaking down, shaking, trembling or the like. IMO, She managed to keep her composure very well under the circumstances.

Edgware

super_furry wrote: »

Has anyone heard anything about him having a DJ name? Mr Moonlight I believe, don't think it was mentioned before.

What was it like in solitary confinement? Are the cells really padded?

monkeybutter

so she witnessed the murder and or was invloved and then decided to terminate the lease on the farm with the body hidden on it


lads


if called for jury duty don't go please

monkeybutter

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

You'd be surprised what self preservation could do for ones mental capacity.

nothing in this case, his sense of self preservation did nothing for him


he bottled it

Vicarious Function

monkeybutter wrote: »

so she witnessed the murder and or was invloved and then decided to terminate the lease on the farm with the body hidden on it


lads


if called for jury duty don't go please

LOL!

Stacksofwacks

monkeybutter wrote: »

so she witnessed the murder and or was invloved and then decided to terminate the lease on the farm with the body hidden on it


lads


if called for jury duty don't go please

Maybe she didnt know exactly where the body was hidden, perhaps Quirke threatened her or she was afraid of him, he did seem to have this hold over her

realdanbreen

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I'm sure he never left the farm and somebody else drove the van to the woods.

You're 'Sure' about that yeah? :rolleyes:

realdanbreen

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

No but I think its possible she could have witnessed it, heard the scuffle in the yard, ran down and found Ryan dead on the ground. Quirke then convinced her to keep quiet and say he'll take care of the body. Through either fear or shock she complies and says nothing, worried she'll be somehow implicated

Like I said previously you could end up facing a jury made up of guys like this!

upupup

Vicarious Function wrote: »

Was just thinking same. There must have been an accomplice. I'm sure such a devious man could have found someone to fill that role - at a price.

This is well known around Tipp but not in the papers.
Pat Quirke had a polish man working for him at the time.He went back to poland just after Bobby Ryan went missing and committed suicide soon after returning home so we will never know if this man had anything to do with it.

I also heard there may have been two polish workers.

Vicarious Function

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Maybe she didnt know exactly where the body was hidden, perhaps Quirke threatened her or she was afraid of him, he did seem to have this hold over her

Somebody, I think maybe Freshpopcorn, mentioned that "everybody in the neighbourhood seemed to think that Quirke had murdered him". Correct me if I'm wrong. If that was the case, nobody was saying anything.

monkeybutter

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Maybe she didnt know exactly where the body was hidden, perhaps Quirke threatened her or she was afraid of him, he did seem to have this hold over her

he had a hold over her, but she still terminated the lease?


wah?


you are terminating the lease Mary? the bodys on the land, that would be the time to tell her for sure



the crazy thing is she was renting the farm out for 1600 a year, i mean wtf

Vicarious Function

upupup wrote: »

This is well known around Tipp but not in the papers.
Pat Quirke had a polish man working for him at the time.He went back to poland just after Bobby Ryan went missing and committed suicide soon after returning home so we will never know if this man had anything to do with it.

I also heard there may have been two polish workers.

I don't know if this has been a proven fact or just "talk". There seems to be some doubt around it, far as I know.

BENDYBINN

Crazy decision by courts...


What for example if he knew or strongly suspected Mary Lowry committed the crime and hid the body on the farm?.......he would have behaved in exactly the same way as he did.

monkeybutter

Vicarious Function wrote: »

Somebody, I think maybe Freshpopcorn, mentioned that "everybody in the neighbourhood seemed to think that Quirke had murdered him". Correct me if I'm wrong. If that was the case, nobody was saying anything.

Well obviously they were saying something as Freshpopcorn found out

realdanbreen

upupup wrote: »

This is well known around Tipp but not in the papers.
Pat Quirke had a polish man working for him at the time.He went back to poland just after Bobby Ryan went missing and committed suicide soon after returning home so we will never know if this man had anything to do with it.

I also heard there may have been two polish workers.

So did the two Polish workers commit suicide?

Vicarious Function

monkeybutter wrote: »

Well obviously they were saying something as Freshpopcorn found out

LOL! Of course! But I presume behind the scenes. Whisper! Whisper!

monkeybutter

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Crazy decision by courts...


What for example if he knew or strongly suspected Mary Lowry committed the crime and hid the body on the farm?.......he would have behaved in exactly the same way as he did.

Why would she kill him exactly, we need a reasonable reason, not a made up one





Now he wouldn't have acted like that, he literally wrote out a confession on paper

monkeybutter

Vicarious Function wrote: »

LOL! Of course! But I presume behind the scenes. Whisper! Whisper!

so they were talking? the scamps, loose lips sink ships, and sure the ngardaí would have heard the rumours then, are they part of a cover up?


Get Gemma on the blower quick



sure what were they going to do exactly? it's all talk really until a body is found

Tacklebox

PhilOssophy wrote: »

The only reason he killed him was she was knocking off his bit on the side, or so he hoped.....
I think he cared more about what his pants was telling him to do than his brain.

There has been historical wars over men thinking with their bell end rather than using common sense....

hairyprincess

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

No but I think its possible she could have witnessed it, heard the scuffle in the yard, ran down and found Ryan dead on the ground. Quirke then convinced her to keep quiet and say he'll take care of the body. Through either fear or shock she complies and says nothing, worried she'll be somehow implicated

The farmyard and the house are not on the same grounds. The farmyard is situated 10kms away.

Stacksofwacks

No it was more than that, it was about control. Quirke is obviously an insecure man who couldnt handle being brushed aside like that.

upupup

Vicarious Function wrote: »

I don't know if this has been a proven fact or just "talk". There seems to be some doubt around it, far as I know.

There's no doubt about it from people living close to Quirke.

I don't know if this has been mentioned earlier but Quirke's child was killed in an accident with his jeep.Quirke kept the jeep,,most people would not be able to look at a vehicle that kiiled their child so it shows him up as being colder than most people

upupup

realdanbreen wrote: »

So did the two Polish workers commit suicide?

One committed suicide,no info about second guy

Necro

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

No but I think its possible she could have witnessed it, heard the scuffle in the yard, ran down and found Ryan dead on the ground. Quirke then convinced her to keep quiet and say he'll take care of the body. Through either fear or shock she complies and says nothing, worried she'll be somehow implicated

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Maybe she didnt know exactly where the body was hidden, perhaps Quirke threatened her or she was afraid of him, he did seem to have this hold over her

Eh? Even if what you're alleging is true (unlikely) then he's still guilty of murder, so justice was served. You should be happy.

Vicarious Function

hairyprincess wrote: »

The farmyard and the house are not on the same grounds. The farmyard is situated 10kms away.

Doesn't look like that on the map.

BENDYBINN

monkeybutter wrote: »

he had a hold over her, but she still terminated the lease?


wah?


you are terminating the lease Mary? the bodys on the land, that would be the time to tell her for sure



the crazy thing is she was renting the farm out for 1600 a year, i mean wtf

He could have been blackmailing her ......if he knew she did it.

Stacksofwacks

Necro wrote: »

Eh? Even if what you're alleging is true (unlikely) then he's still guilty of murder, so justice was served. You should be happy.

Eh? So even if what I'm alleging is untrue(unlikely), you think its ok for a witness to a murder to withold information from a major murder trial, pleading that its because she's a woman who liked to indulge herself in love triangles

Necro

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Eh? So even if what I'm alleging is untrue(unlikely), you think its ok for a witness to a murder to withold information from a major murder trial, pleading that its because she's a woman who liked to indulge herself in love triangles

Your scenario still has Quirke as guilty, which a jury of his peers deemed him to be.

Mary Lowry lying on the stand doesn't change any hypothetical scenario you wish to concoct, even in that you still have him as the killer.

And anyways, it's been pointed out to you repeatedly - if she was involved then why would she seek legal advice to break the lease with Quirke when the body was hidden on her land.

The most obvious, and imo correct answer given all of the evidence presented at the trial - the internet searches in particular - is that Quirke is guilty.

And I'm delighted the jury saw through his facade of blame shifting.

Sajid Javid

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Not all of the information you mention was put the to the jury. The sex tapes and the underwear stealing in particular were excluded from evidence by the judge.

Oh no. no no no!
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/murder-accused-stole-underwear-from-former-lover-s-clothes-line-1.3776045

https://www.thejournal.ie/mary-lowry-patrick-quirke-computer-recording-4565840-Mar2019/

In relation to the underware been stolen Mary did not report this to the Guards and Quirke did not seem to bothered when she said to him " I hope you wont be stealing Mary Dillons knickers of the line.

In relation to the recording She said she did not make the recording and did not give anyone permission to record the conversation.
As alluded to by a poster previous this is Kinky stuff note she did not say that she had never given Quirke permission to record her or that she never recorded her self for purposes unknown.
Now one could conclude that the defense was weak but one must keep in mind the fact that counsel was working under instruction.
In my opinion the Guards should have charged Mary if only for the purpose of extracting the truth the whole truth...............
I know I can hear it from here What Evidence?
His appeal will made on the grounds that relevant evidence was not put before the Jury and the appeal will be successful.

PhilOssophy

monkeybutter wrote: »

there's an accomplice now is there? that's some revelation,



6:30 in the morning, liftin fookin heavy tank lids is it, on an unused dairy farm, it was a big heavy concrete yoke


lads how far is bansha woods? I'm sure a few miles across country he's a local, he walked home after he moved the van, best way to not get spotted



He acted alone

If you had bothered reading my post, I didn't say he lifted anything, I said he was lured out there on the premise of something needing to be lifted.

Stacksofwacks

Necro wrote: »

Your scenario still has Quirke as guilty, which a jury of his peers deemed him to be.

Mary Lowry lying on the stand doesn't change any hypothetical scenario you wish to concoct, even in that you still have him as the killer.

And anyways, it's been pointed out to you repeatedly - if she was involved then why would she seek legal advice to break the lease with Quirke when the body was hidden on her land.

The most obvious, and imo correct answer given all of the evidence presented at the trial - the internet searches in particular - is that Quirke is guilty.

And I'm delighted the jury saw through his facade of blame shifting.

You're proabaly right but the Mary little lamb facade hasnt convinced me either perhaps Im just cynical

freshpopcorn

Vicarious Function wrote: »

Somebody, I think maybe Freshpopcorn, mentioned that "everybody in the neighbourhood seemed to think that Quirke had murdered him". Correct me if I'm wrong. If that was the case, nobody was saying anything.

I heard stuff in 2012. I didn't know the people involved.
There was stuff about the man that died. I don't know of it's true or not so I won't mention it.
They was a lot of gossip about affairs and people involved it looks like it was true. They also said the body was very close to the house where he was last seen.

PhilOssophy

I wonder is Mary Lowry related to Michael Lowry, that man would get you off anything I have heard!!

monkeybutter

hairyprincess wrote: »

The farmyard and the house are not on the same grounds. The farmyard is situated 10kms away.

it's 10 meters away more like

monkeybutter

PhilOssophy wrote: »

If you had bothered reading my post, I didn't say he lifted anything, I said he was lured out there on the premise of something needing to be lifted.

oh i read what you said, what was he lifting so? what difference does it even make


you said he had an accomplice, like thats mad enough

monkeybutter

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I heard stuff in 2012. I didn't know the people involved.
There was stuff about the man that died. I don't know of it's true or not so I won't mention it.
They was a lot of gossip about affairs and people involved it looks like it was true. They also said the body was very close to the house where he was last seen.

and you didn't go to the po po?


I know snitches get stitches, but come on

monkeybutter

i wonder is this thread what the deliberation of the jury was like,


10 sane people and few nutters who said rock n roll loving aliens did, the king is alive

givyjoe

monkeybutter wrote: »

and you didn't go to the po po?


I know snitches get stitches, but come on

Go to them with what? I heard xyz?

monkeybutter

givyjoe wrote: »

Go to them with what? I heard xyz?

the body is near the house


i mean you'd get them out digging the place up with JCBs with that kinda info


seriously

Wrongway1985

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I wonder is Mary Lowry related to Michael Lowry, that man would get you off anything I have heard!!

Well you wonder badly Lowry is her married name and would be Quirkes Mrs Maiden name.

Stacksofwacks

monkeybutter wrote: »

i wonder is this thread what the deliberation of the jury was like,


10 sane people and few nutters who said rock n roll loving aliens did, the king is alive

No it was Hillary Clinton who did it, that's why she deleted all those emails

PhilOssophy

monkeybutter wrote: »

oh i read what you said, what was he lifting so? what difference does it even make


you said he had an accomplice, like thats mad enough

Right, well firstly you might want to calm down a bit we're all only speculating.

My point was this. The tank was open and he needed to get Quirke out near it and may have said "come out here Bobby and help me with...." luring him to his grave.

He'd have been a hell of a man if he killed him, covered the tank with the concrete lid and the bales - all in the space of 10 minutes it took for Bobby's van to drive out of Lowry's? And then drove his van to Bansha Wood and got back to milk his own cows (not noticed by anybody) in Breanshamore all in the space of a couple of hours?

I think it is more than plausible that he had an accomplice. But as I said above, we are all only speculating.

upupup

Here's a joke that's going around,I heard it from a neighbour of Quirkes yesterday.
Mary Lowry had a delay in getting planning permission for her new Bungalow.
She wanted 2 septic tanks:D

realdanbreen

monkeybutter wrote: »

i wonder is this thread what the deliberation of the jury was like,


10 sane people and few nutters who said rock n roll loving aliens did, the king is alive

You can find 10 sane posters on here!:eek:

Vicarious Function

realdanbreen wrote: »

You can find 10 sane posters on here!:eek:

Don't you think that's rather high????

monkeybutter

realdanbreen wrote: »

You can find 10 sane posters on here!:eek:

haha two sane 10 mad