Patrick Quirke -Guilty

4ensic15

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

its extremely unusual for people accused of murder to be released on bail. I think DPP V Éamon Lillis eas a precedent.

I imagine that in this case, the Court took into account the fact that the Accused was a farmer and would have incurred major financial loss if deprived of access to his farm.

It is far from unusual for people accused of murder to be released on bail . On page 44 of this report it mentions that of 5 bail applications in murder cases 3 were granted bail.
http://www.iprt.ie/files/PTD_Country_Report_Ireland_FINAL.pdf

4ensic15

4ensic15 wrote: »

It is far from unusual for people accused of murder to be released on bail . On page 44 of this report it mentions that of 5 bail applications in murder cases 3 were granted bail.
http://www.iprt.ie/files/PTD_Country_Report_Ireland_FINAL.pdf

I'm on my phone and would rather not to download that, but 3 out of 5 is a very small pool from which to infer a trend.

From memory, I think DPP vs Lillis was something of a precedent when it came to release on bail in a murder case. Perhaps there has been a change in trend recently but it would be considered strange, over the long term, for a person accused of murder to be bailed.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'd be wasting my time re-explaining my post, isn't that right? I reckon most people understood it, but have a great weekend!

Don't mean to be pedantic but weekend's nearly over. I can see we'll never see eye to eye

Back OT, the trivia articles are starting to appear - looks like this headline story of yesterday is being sent off to the virtual chip shop paper factory in the cloud.


Killer Pat Quirke (50) avidly watched episodes of the acclaimed US murder mystery series 'Ozark' as he travelled by train to Dublin to attend his murder trial.


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/killer-patrick-quirke-watched-us-mystery-series-ozark-as-he-travelled-to-trial-38082076.html

freshpopcorn

jimwallace197 wrote: »

I dont agree. I think for another person to be involved, it would be fairly far fetched. Could you imagine someone approaching you about knocking another lad off, the possible implications/consequences of carrying that out. And then further down the line, someone talking, sounds crazy to me anyways.

At least if Quirke did it, he had motive, anyone else, it would be just madness. I do agree there is alot more to the story that meets the eye but an accomplice wouldnt be what I was thinking of

That morning
He killed Bobby Ryan.
He probably hid the body well enough.
Drove the van a few KM away.
Cleaned the van and possible the Mary Lowry's yard where he attacked.
Possibly disposed of relevant things.
Made his way back to his own farm for milking.
He did this all without being noticed.
He was all ready to head off to a luxury hotel with his wife that morning then.
I think he may have had help.

4ensic15

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm on my phone and would rather not to download that, but 3 out of 5 is a very small pool from which to infer a trend.

From memory, I think DPP vs Lillis was something of a precedent when it came to release on bail in a murder case. Perhaps there has been a change in trend recently but it would be considered strange, over the long term, for a person accused of murder to be bailed.

It is far from a precedent. Bail was allowed in this case 50 years before Lillis.
It might be considered change by you but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen or that you know anything about it.


The People (Attorney General) v. O'Callaghan 1966] 1 I.R.
The People (Attorney General) v Crosbie [1966] IR 426

freshpopcorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

That morning
He killed Bobby Ryan.
He probably hid the body well enough.
Drove the van a few KM away.
Cleaned the van and possible the Mary Lowry's yard where he attacked.
Possibly disposed of relevant things.
Made his way back to his own farm for milking.
He did this all without being noticed.
He was all ready to head off to a luxury hotel with his wife that morning then.
I think he may have had help.

It's stuff of military precision when you list all of the activities.

Was the van actually reported as being "cleaned"? There were "80%-sure" sightings of RYAN walking back from the woods, hot and sweaty.
If all fingerprints were wiped from the steering wheel/mirror etc, that in itself would have been suspicious. I don't think we were ever told the detailed analysis of the van were we?

Vicarious Function

Faugheen wrote: »

And her husband gets off scot free?

It takes two to tango, but you're very much pointing the finger at one person

If you had read my post, Faugheen, you would have seen that I said towards the end "there were two of them in it".

Granted, of course there were two of them in it i.e. Quirke and herself.

What I was talking about was one person's disloyalty to her best friend/sister-in-law. There was no obligation on me to include a whole lot of other scenarios such as a husband's betrayal of his wife. That is something else.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It's stuff of military precision when you list all of the activities.

Was the van actually reported as being "cleaned"? There were "80%-sure" sightings of RYAN walking back from the woods, hot and sweaty.
If all fingerprints were wiped from the steering wheel/mirror etc, that in itself would have been suspicious. I don't think we were ever told the detailed analysis of the van were we?

The van wasn’t examined until after the body was found. All evidence well gone or contaminated.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The van wasn’t examined until after the body was found. All evidence well gone or contaminated.

Opportunity missed so-obviously it was a "missing person" case at the time- I appreciate that point-a pity as it may have provided "something".

freshpopcorn

Deleted User wrote: »

It's stuff of military precision when you list all of the activities.

Was the van actually reported as being "cleaned"? There were "80%-sure" sightings of RYAN walking back from the woods, hot and sweaty.
If all fingerprints were wiped from the steering wheel/mirror etc, that in itself would have been suspicious. I don't think we were ever told the detailed analysis of the van were we?

Well if your going to murder somebody and plant there van in woods a few KM away chances are you'd make sure to give everything a wipe down. Especially in case like this. He was clever enough to be forensically aware with the clothes/etc.

4ensic15

4ensic15 wrote: »

It is far from a precedent. Bail was allowed in this case 50 years before Lillis.
It might be considered change by you but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen or that you know anything about it.


The People (Attorney General) v. O'Callaghan 1966] 1 I.R.
The People (Attorney General) v Crosbie [1966] IR 426

That's why I was deliberate in not claiming it was a literal precedent. The Lillis case was indeed something of a new departure in Irish terms, I remember there having been very lengthy arguments about bail in that case, and surprise among some professionals that the Accused had been bailed.

I suspect you are still upset about a previous discussion where you denied that an appellate court needed to find some error of law or fact in order to overturn the verdict of a jury. I suggest you simply move on and enjoy the weekend. With respect. I think the thread would be all the better if this silly squabbling ended so let's ignore one another.

freshpopcorn

Imelda visiting him in prison Today!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/pictured-wife-of-convicted-murderer-patrick-quirke-seen-for-first-time-visiting-husband-in-mountjoy-38085427.html?fbclid=IwAR3BtyADKcZrhR6aa9t2a60w_J_hdxrKQdk3auDswPKiSNtmiyRX3XWnT0w

4ensic15

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

That's why I was deliberate in not claiming it was a literal precedent. The Lillis case was indeed something of a new departure in Irish terms, I remember there having been very lengthy arguments about bail in that case, and surprise among some professionals that the Accused had been bailed.

I suspect you are still upset about a previous discussion where you denied that an appellate court needed to find some error of law or fact in order to overturn the verdict of a jury. I suggest you simply move on and enjoy the weekend. With respect. I think the thread would be all the better if this silly squabbling ended so let's ignore one another.

That is a specific decision which would turn on it's own facts. You claimed it had some precedent value.

4ensic15

4ensic15 wrote: »

That is a specific decision which would turn on it's own facts. You claimed it had some precedent value.

I didn't though, I deliberately qualified its value as a precedent by saying it was 'somehwat' new.

Stop grappling, let people get on with the thread. Nobody cares about this pettiness.

mikeymouse

freshpopcorn wrote: »

That morning
He killed Bobby Ryan.
He probably hid the body well enough.
Drove the van a few KM away.
Cleaned the van and possible the Mary Lowry's yard where he attacked.
Possibly disposed of relevant things.
Made his way back to his own farm for milking.
He did this all without being noticed.
He was all ready to head off to a luxury hotel with his wife that morning then.
I think he may have had help.

On foot?
Bike in boot?
How far is it?
Or did he return to Lowry's farm first?
How far is that?

freshpopcorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

That morning
He killed Bobby Ryan.
He probably hid the body well enough.
Drove the van a few KM away.
Cleaned the van and possible the Mary Lowry's yard where he attacked.
Possibly disposed of relevant things.
Made his way back to his own farm for milking.
He did this all without being noticed.
He was all ready to head off to a luxury hotel with his wife that morning then.
I think he may have had help.

Not just that. Going by Mary Lowry's timeline, Quirke had a maximum window of ten minutes for Bobby Ryan to have left the house, be beaten to death by Quirke and presumably the bloody murder scene was cleaned before Ryan's van was seen departing the property (up to) ten minutes later.

All of this happened in close proximity to a farmhouse where Mary Lowry's mother in law slept with her window open.

Possible, certainly. But hardly probable, hardly certain.

freshpopcorn

mikeymouse wrote: »

On foot?
Bike in boot?
How far is it?
Or did he return to Lowry's farm first?
How far is that?

It's between 2km-4km going by media reports. Do any of the local's know?
We don't know how he made his way back. That's part of the problem.
Would he have being spotted/etc by locals or could he have walked through land.

mikeymouse

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Not just that. Going by Mary Lowry's timeline, Quirke had a maximum window of ten minutes for Bobby Ryan to have left the house, be beaten to death by Quirke and presumably the bloody murder scene was cleaned before Ryan's van was seen departing the property (up to) ten minutes later.

All of this happened in close proximity to a farmhouse where Mary Lowry's mother in law slept with her window open.

Possible, certainly. But hardly probable, hardly certain.

By whom ?

Ryu Hayabusa

mikeymouse wrote: »

On foot?
Bike in boot?
How far is it?
Or did he return to Lowry's farm first?
How far is that?

It’s about 1km, on the n24 limerick-Waterford main road or he went off-road hiking through Bansha woods.

In my opinion, he dumped the van in the woods but someone picked him up to return the farm, as no way would he have walked down the n24 and not be seen.

And hiking through the woods would have taken longer and not in keeping with the timeline that he was there milking cows

4ensic15

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I didn't though, I deliberately qualified its value as a precedent by saying it was 'somehwat' new.

Stop grappling, let people get on with the thread. Nobody cares about this pettiness.

Somewhat of a precedent. What do you mean by somewhat? It either established or developed a new legal principle or it did not. Murder was granted in a murder case 50 years before it. Bail is granted frequently in murder cases. Your proposition that is is extremely rare for bail to be granted in murders cases is complete nonsense that you invented without any basis.

Your proposition that Lillis was something of a precedent is equally without foundation.
Threads can do without figments of the imagination posited as fact.

Vicarious Function

mikeymouse wrote: »

On foot?
Bike in boot?
How far is it?
Or did he return to Lowry's farm first?
How far is that?

I'm presuming he would have had his car at Lowry's farm. Therefore he would have needed to get back to Lowry's farm. I'm very much inclined to think he may have called on an accomplice to get him back so he could collect his car. He could have walked out on the road, leaving the van where it was hidden out of sight, so the person picking him up might not even have seen the van when they collected him. Also they could have dropped him on the road at Lowry's farm and driven on, so there was no way they could have come upon a murder scene, if there was one, in the yard.
I could be completely wrong, of course. :P

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The van wasn’t examined until after the body was found. All evidence well gone or contaminated.

There was an unknown fingerprint found but not Quirkes. It appears you are correct in saying no analysis was done on the van until after Bobby Ryan's body was found. This is astonishing...

TL17

What is the story with witnesses seeing Bobby Ryan that morning. Could it have been Pat Quirke dressed similarly to him. Was this how he returned

monkeybutter

TL17 wrote: »

What is the story with witnesses seeing Bobby Ryan that morning. Could it have been Pat Quirke dressed similarly to him. Was this how he returned

Maybe he wore his clothes!!!!!!!!!!!

monkeybutter

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There was an unknown fingerprint found but not Quirkes. It appears you are correct in saying no analysis was done on the van until after Bobby Ryan's body was found. This is astonishing...

Mental alright

Vicarious Function

monkeybutter wrote: »

Maybe he wore his clothes!!!!!!!!!!!

I presume that's a joke, monkeybutter. :pac:

The expert said there woud have been a lot of blood so it's unlikely he would have been able to wear the clothes.

Quirke also referred to disposal of the clothes in his written notes, so it's unlikely he wore them

monkeybutter

Vicarious Function wrote: »

I'm presuming he would have had his car at Lowry's farm. Therefore he would have needed to get back to Lowry's farm. I'm very much inclined to think he may have called on an accomplice to get him back so he could collect his car. He could have walked out on the road, leaving the van where it was hidden out of sight, so the person picking him up might not even have seen the van when they collected him. Also they could have dropped him on the road at Lowry's farm and driven on, so there was no way they could have come upon a murder scene, if there was one, in the yard.
I could be completely wrong, of course. :P

He drove to the woods and walked cross country, accomplices and having cars stashed is a recipie for getting caught

The distances are small enough and it was 7 am, plenty of time

If he was running a dairy and using the Lowry land then his farms close

freshpopcorn

monkeybutter wrote: »

He drove to the woods and walked cross country, accomplices and having cars stashed is a recipie for getting caught

The distances are small enough and it was 7 am, plenty of time

If he was running a dairy and using the Lowry land then his farms close

How about having him killed and hidden in the yard in less than seven minutes without making Mary Lowry aware?

monkeybutter

Vicarious Function wrote: »

I presume that's joke, monkeybutter. :pac:

The expert said there woud have been a lot of blood so it's unlikely he would have been able to wear the clothes.

Quirke also referred to disposal of the clothes in his written notes, so it's unlikely he wore them

It's the least mad so speculation so far in this thread

Sure why else strip him

No sure why they reckoned there'd be a lot of blood in the first place

Presumable they used dogs to search, if the place was covered in blood and washed they still be going nuts and why chance leaving that mess for Mary to walk out on by chance

Vicarious Function

monkeybutter wrote: »

He drove to the woods and walked cross country, accomplices and having cars stashed is a recipie for getting caught

The distances are small enough and it was 7 am, plenty of time

If he was running a dairy and using the Lowry land then his farms close

There are at least two women he could have relied on to keep his secret. They would have been too terrified not to. He would know well they would be too terrified to rat on him. He'd convince them it was a matter of their own self preservation!

jmreire

monkeybutter wrote: »

Mental alright

You have to bear in mind that at that stage, it was a "Missing Person" case, and not a murder case. Had the body been found within 24/48/36 hours, you can be sure that the place would have been swarming with Guard's etc. And forensically, it may have yielded much more in term's of evidence.

monkeybutter

freshpopcorn wrote: »

How about having him killed and hidden in the yard in less than seven minutes without making Mary Lowry aware?

Surely you could do that in minutes, the first blow to the head must have done it given there was so little noise, drag the body away, cover it job done, you have the whole day before the alarms raised

freshpopcorn

monkeybutter wrote: »

Surely you could do that in minutes, the first blow to the head must have done it given there was so little noise, drag the body away, cover it job done, you have the whole day before the alarms raised

She'd heard him driving over a cattle grid but nothing else?
He also had blows to the head/etc which would have implied blood may have being involved.
To drag him then a distance/etc. He must have worked very fast and made no noise.

Vicarious Function

monkeybutter wrote: »

Surely you could do that in minutes, the first blow to the head must have done it given there was so little noise, drag the body away, cover it job done, you have the whole day before the alarms raised

According to the pathologist's evidence his skull was fractured in 7 places. It showed it on Prime Time. His ribs were broken and his thigh was broken. They said it could have been inflicted by a blunt instrument such as a baseball bat and they did not rule out his being hit by a vehicle.

newbie11

monkeybutter wrote: »

He drove to the woods and walked cross country, accomplices and having cars stashed is a recipie for getting caught

The distances are small enough and it was 7 am, plenty of time

If he was running a dairy and using the Lowry land then his farms close

I pass the car park where the van was left most days and have walked a bit in those woods, don't think cross country would be possible, the only way to walk would be through a thick forest which rises steeply, a few tracks here and there but nothing that leads in the direction of the Lowry farm, he would have been cut to bits by briars and taken hours if he took that route, the only other way to walk would have had him on the N24 for a significant period of time where he would have been noticed at that hour

Odelay

freshpopcorn wrote: »

She'd heard him driving over a cattle grid but nothing else?
He also had blows to the head/etc which would have implied blood may have being involved.
To drag him then a distance/etc. He must have worked very fast and made no noise.

Bobby parked his van hidden in the farmyard to avoid it been seen by the mother in law. You should know this. It’s not like he was whacked over the head outside the bedroom window.
It would have been hard for her to hear any of this.

jmreire

monkeybutter wrote: »

Surely you could do that in minutes, the first blow to the head must have done it given there was so little noise, drag the body away, cover it job done, you have the whole day before the alarms raised

Sure it could be done in that time frame.....Kill him, hide the body temporarily and then drive the van to the Bansha wood car park...retrieve his own car (Like all of rural Ireland) that area is criss-crossed with minor roads, drive back to the Lowery farm, strip the body and place it in the tank. He could then drive back to his own farm for the milking... would be a little late, as evidenced by the AI Lady, but still doable in the time frame. He could then return to the Lowry farm, as he would normally do, cover the tank with muck and dirt, and then place 10 or 15 bales on top of it. Return again to his own place, and dispose of the clothe's that Bobby had been wearing ( and most likely his own clothe's too.) Half gallon of petrol, some branches, and all is dust and Ashe's in a few mins. I'm pretty sure that he would have been wearing glove's too, and of course he was always wearing a hat or cap..so no finger prints on Bobby's van, or DNA samples either. The only thing amiss in the van as evidenced by Bobby'a Daughter, was the drivers seat position and gear lever in the wrong gear, one that Bobby never left it in. But in my mind...in 22 mt's why he never made any attempt to dispose of the body in a way that it would never have been found.

monkeybutter

freshpopcorn wrote: »

She'd heard him driving over a cattle grid but nothing else?
He also had blows to the head/etc which would have implied blood may have being involved.
To drag him then a distance/etc. He must have worked very fast and made no noise.

You are agreeing right? There may have been blood, but not as much as said

freshpopcorn

Odelay wrote: »

Bobby parked his van hidden in the farmyard to avoid it been seen by the mother in law. You should know this. It’s not like he was whacked over the head outside the bedroom window.
It would have been hard for her to hear any of this.

The farm and the house were very close together.
Mary and the mother in law both had their windows open.
Mary heard the van drive over the cattle grid and this is a bit of a distance from the house.

monkeybutter wrote: »

You are agreeing right? There may have been blood, but not as much as said

Well he had multiply blows to the head. So you an make your own mind up. I know mine.

Odelay

Odelay wrote: »

Bobby parked his van hidden in the farmyard to avoid it been seen by the mother in law. You should know this. It’s not like he was whacked over the head outside the bedroom window.
It would have been hard for her to hear any of this.

it's a small farmstead. If you could hear a car prattling over the cattlegrid, you should be able to hear, in the quiet of the morning, the yell and commotion of a man being bludgeoned to death.

It has to be admitted by any rational and impartial observer that the narrow time frame and lack of any loud noise makes the apparent scene of the crime somewhat doubtful.

Ryu Hayabusa

With Pat Quirke locked away, Mary Lowry and Imelda Quirke will not be short of suitors.

They look like sisters but both would get it, if you know what I mean

Odelay

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

it's a small farmstead. If you could hear a car prattling over the cattlegrid, you should be able to hear, in the quiet of the morning, the yell and commotion of a man being bludgeoned to death.

It has to be admitted by any rational and impartial observer that the narrow time frame and lack of any loud noise makes the apparent scene of the crime somewhat doubtful.

A cattle grid is louder than a scuffle, if there even was one. I can hear my neighbors cattle grid and that’s 500m away. That with windows closed. With the window open I can hear the quad collecting cows, just about. I can’t hear anything else from them.

Calypso Realm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

That morning
He killed Bobby Ryan.
He probably hid the body well enough.
Drove the van a few KM away.
Cleaned the van and possible the Mary Lowry's yard where he attacked.
Possibly disposed of relevant things.
Made his way back to his own farm for milking.
He did this all without being noticed.
He was all ready to head off to a luxury hotel with his wife that morning then.
I think he may have had help.

In addition, he drove to Mary Lowry's place that morning with the cow box to collect the bulls he kept in a shed there. ML also mentioned in her testimony she'd seen him around 8.30 and wondered what he was doing there so early!

Weltsmertz

jmreire wrote: »

Sure it could be done in that time frame.....Kill him, hide the body temporarily and then drive the van to the Bansha wood car park...retrieve his own car (Like all of rural Ireland) that area is criss-crossed with minor roads, drive back to the Lowery farm, strip the body and place it in the tank. He could then drive back to his own farm for the milking... would be a little late, as evidenced by the AI Lady, but still doable in the time frame. He could then return to the Lowry farm, as he would normally do, cover the tank with muck and dirt, and then place 10 or 15 bales on top of it. Return again to his own place, and dispose of the clothe's that Bobby had been wearing ( and most likely his own clothe's too.) Half gallon of petrol, some branches, and all is dust and Ashe's in a few mins. I'm pretty sure that he would have been wearing glove's too, and of course he was always wearing a hat or cap..so no finger prints on Bobby's van, or DNA samples either. The only thing amiss in the van as evidenced by Bobby'a Daughter, was the drivers seat position and gear lever in the wrong gear, one that Bobby never left it in. But in my mind...in 22 mt's why he never made any attempt to dispose of the body in a way that it would never have been found.

No accomplice needed. If he did it like this it's all very doable. And as it was only missing persons case at the time no forensics done. A few things were noticed. The 10 min delay in Van leaving farm, his lateness in milking cows by AI woman, readjustment of seat in van.
However he had 22 months to get rid of the evidence that convicted him, the notepad, the computer and the body but didn't.
Sloppiness and overconfidence after getting away with it initially.

Odelay

Odelay wrote: »

A cattle grid is louder than a scuffle, if there even was one. I can hear my neighbors cattle grid and that’s 500m away. That with windows closed. With the window open I can hear the quad collecting cows, just about. I can’t hear anything else from them.

do your neighbours often bludgeon men to death, to your knowledge?

Even taking it as a fact that nobody in the house (where one person was sleeping with an open window) heard such a violent attack, is it really credible that an attacker would have taken that risk?

Are you certain that that is what a calculated killer would do?

All along, we have been told that Quirke orchestrated the near-perfect murder but are simultaneously asked to drop any reasonable doubts that he started the project so stupidly and so clumsily

monkeybutter

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

it's a small farmstead. If you could hear a car prattling over the cattlegrid, you should be able to hear, in the quiet of the morning, the yell and commotion of a man being bludgeoned to death.

It has to be admitted by any rational and impartial observer that the narrow time frame and lack of any loud noise makes the apparent scene of the crime somewhat doubtful.

Ok, what irrational and impartial location was there for the killing so?

You are a farmer of some kind, no doubt with a body or two stashed around the place

Enlighten us with your wisdom

monkeybutter

monkeybutter wrote: »

Surely you could do that in minutes, the first blow to the head must have done it given there was so little noise, drag the body away, cover it job done, you have the whole day before the alarms raised

Except for the fact that:
a. You wouldn't have known that Lowry laid in bed waiting for the cattle ramp noise after he left and
b. as a result of not knowing "a", why would you need to do it in such a condensed timeline?

Odelay

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

do your neighbours often bludgeon men to death, to your knowledge?

Even taking it as a fact that nobody in the house (where one person was sleeping with an open window) heard such a violent attack, is it really credible that an attacker would have taken that risk?

Are you certain that that is what a calculated killer would do?

They also live next door to a quary, not the one Bobby worked in, but another. I’m sure they are well used to sleeping through background noise.

My neighbors may bludgeon men to death every morning. I don’t hear noises from calving, tb testing or any of the other farm noises. But you’d know all about that, as you do everything else.

Odelay

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except for the fact that:
a. You wouldn't have known that Lowry laid in bed waiting for the cattle ramp noise after he left and
b. as a result of not knowing "a", why would you need to do it in such a condensed timeline?

A - answer was because he probably knew she was listening for that because he was also in bed with her plenty of times. She probably let it slip that’s how she knew Pat was coming/going during their affair.

Calypso Realm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

it's a small farmstead. If you could hear a car prattling over the cattlegrid, you should be able to hear, in the quiet of the morning, the yell and commotion of a man being bludgeoned to death. .

Not necessarily, as I'd imagine he was taken by surprise from behind and the first couple of blows would in all probability have rendered him unconscious, the rest inflicted later thus minimising noise from the victim.