Patrick Quirke -Guilty

monkeybutter

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except for the fact that:
a. You wouldn't have known that Lowry laid in bed waiting for the cattle ramp noise after he left and
b. as a result of not knowing "a", why would you need to do it in such a condensed timeline?

Ah sure take the whole day sure, what's the rush

Leave the body lying there, why even bother moving it

What makes you think he was even conscious of the cattle grid, he drove the car out the yard so anyone would think it might be noticed if the car never left

That's something she raised to say he took a bit longer to leave than normal

Odelay

Odelay wrote: »

A - answer was because he probably knew she was listening for that because he was also in bed with her plenty of times. She probably let it slip that’s how she knew Pat was coming/going during their affair.

Maybe. It's not beyond the realms of possibility- but would you rely on that?

And then if he knew all of that, why pick a day he's going on a break with his wife, AI person arriving etc etc That just sounds like a ton of extra problems to deal with. Which may imply it wasn't premeditated and that it was a chance encounter which went wrong in some way?

monkeybutter

monkeybutter wrote: »

What makes you think he was even conscious of the cattle grid, l

eh, I never said he was- quite the opposite in fact.:)

McCrack

I see the fishwives are continuing to blather their nonsense speculation and armchair detectives on this thread

McCrack

McCrack wrote: »

I see the fishwives are continuing to blather their nonsense speculation and armchair detectives on this thread

I see the bitchiness meter has just raised its level again. Care to contribute to the thread or do you just want to bitch?:)

freshpopcorn

McCrack wrote: »

I see the fishwives are continuing to blather their nonsense speculation and armchair detectives on this thread

Sorry for having a discussion on a discussions forum!

monkeybutter

[Deleted User] wrote: »

eh, I never said he was- quite the opposite in fact.:)

I already explained, can you explain why he would take his sweet time about it

monkeybutter

monkeybutter wrote: »

I already explained, can you explain why he would take his sweet time about it

you challenged me on him knowing about the cattle grid- I responded to you to say that my assumption was that he wouldn't have known that and that's what i said in my post. But you insisted that I said different.
Now you're saying that I expected him to take all day to dispose of the body- I didn't suggest that either. I was only referring to the tight timeline of 10 minutes.

but hey, don't let the facts get in the way of the argument you obviously want to have with me. Your move mate!

monkeybutter

McCrack wrote: »

I see the fishwives are continuing to blather their nonsense speculation and armchair detectives on this thread

Stop bein a sad sap you are reading this ****e

Spanish Eyes

There is still a dearth of hard evidence that PQ murdered BR.

I suppose if there was, the court would have uncovered it, so in the end, the accumulation of circumstancial evidence did PQ in really.

I am saying this with caution, but I think Q's wife and ML are breathing normally for the first time in a long time now.

And NEXT.... the appeal. I wonder on what grounds? I am sure he will be well advised.

Spanish Eyes

There is still a dearth of hard evidence that PQ murdered BR.

I suppose if there was, the court would have uncovered it, so in the end, the accumulation of circumstancial evidence did PQ in really.

I am saying this with caution, but I think Q's wife and ML are breathing normally for the first time in a long time now.

And NEXT.... the appeal. I wonder on what grounds? I am sure he will be well advised.

freshpopcorn

Ye probably already know but there's a special on his on Virgin Media One at 10PM tonighgt!

freshpopcorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Ye probably already know but there's a special on his on Virgin Media One at 10PM tonighgt!

Will record- watch tomorrow- likely to have ads every 5 mins or so like they have on The Tonight Show with Ivan Yates- probably 30 minutes of actual programming- the rest is marketing.

monkeybutter

monkeybutter wrote: »

Ok, what irrational and impartial location was there for the killing so?

You are a farmer of some kind, no doubt with a body or two stashed around the place

Enlighten us with your wisdom

Alright luv, no need to be snarky. We don't any of us have to take it as a personal insult any time a flaw is pointed out in our preferred hypothesis!

I am just saying that killing a man violently, on someone else's property, in a place where loud noises like cries of pain would easily be heard, seems to be a highly risky thing to do, for a man who apparently planned the perfect murder.

So if Ryan was killed by Quirke that morning onthe farm, it seems to me more like an impulsive act, or something that was planned along with another person. Its just way too risky a strategy for someone to devise cooly and rationally.

I don't know enough about Bobby Ryan's habits to propose another suitable place to have killed him. If I really wanted to put my murderer's cap on (not that I have one...) I'd have signalled him down on the road as he drove to work, and committed the awful act there and then.

Certainly not adjacent to a house full of people.

TL17

The more I read about timing and the whole logistics of the whole sad business the more I realise he was not alone. Could not have carried all that off alone. And be composed to carry on as normal. There is more to this

TL17

TL17 wrote: »

. And be composed to carry on as normal.

Incredible as it may seem it's not without precedent in terms of serious crimes:

Exhibit A: Larry Murphy
Exhibit B: Joe O'Reilly
Exhibit C: Graham Dwyer

Difficult to comprehend I know, but not impossible.

KikiLaRue

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Alright luv, no need to be snarky. We don't any of us have to take it as a personal insult any time a flaw is pointed out in our preferred hypothesis!

I am just saying that killing a man violently, on someone else's property, in a place where loud noises like cries of pain would easily be heard, seems to be a highly risky thing to do, for a man who apparently planned the perfect murder.

So if Ryan was killed by Quirke that morning onthe farm, it seems to me more like an impulsive act, or something that was planned along with another person. Its just way too risky a strategy for someone to devise cooly and rationally.

I don't know enough about Bobby Ryan's habits to propose another suitable place to have killed him. If I really wanted to put my murderer's cap on (not that I have one...) I'd have signalled him down on the road as he drove to work, and committed the awful act there and then.

Certainly not adjacent to a house full of people.

Copper pipe to the back of the head, or even a right swing or a hurley- would take about two seconds and no noise

Spanish Eyes

This case has everything hasn't it? Cuckolded wife, brother in laws wife affair (both sides), peppercorn lease, the AI woman, the cattle grid, the woods, the Polish man. There is a book and a fillum on the way here folks.

Still no evidence that PQ murdered BR though. Anyway may BR rest in peace.

The rest of this will out on Appeal if there is one.

Bobby Ryan found 100 yards from the last place he was seen alive.
Reference: Virgin Media 1 documentary on now.

Nothing new so far in this documentary - let's see what the 2nd half says.

Weltsmertz

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing new so far in this documentary - let's see what the 2nd half says.

Nope. Poor enough. No insights and nothing new. We've heard all of this before.

Spanish Eyes

Deleted User wrote: »

Bobby Ryan found 100 yards from the last place he was seen alive.
Reference: Virgin Media 1 documentary on now.

No evidence to support anyone close by being involved though.

John_Rambo

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Copper pipe to the back of the head, or even a right swing or a hurley- would take about two seconds and no noise

Agreed. All farmers I know are strong, have good control & decent hand eye coordination. They may be stout & have a belly, but years of day to day pulling, pushing, lifting, hitching trailers, dealing with livestock leaves them with slabs of muscle under that fat. The victim in this case had two major head traumas, one hard belt with a weapon from behind & one when he was down would have a relatively silent but devastating result.

I help out on a farm and the farmer is an overweight man the same age as Quirk. I'm very fit, but he's much stronger than me and can go all day and all night during the summer.

We've all seen MMA fighters knock out their opponents. There's no screaming or shouting from the person that's been KO'd. They slump down without a sound.

fepper

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing new so far in this documentary - let's see what the 2nd half says.

He was hoping Mary Lowry would be chief suspect and not him by his timing of discovery of body

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

No evidence to support anyone close by being involved though.

I wasn’t expecting any. Apparently though according to a newspaper report today - the Times ireland edition- some of the family members of the deceased believe there was some one else involved- not necessarily close by- I dont know what they said- I don’t think we’ll ever know if there is a basis for this position.
I’d expect if a book were written about the case, which I’ve no doubt some journalists have already drafted, they will address this aspect in some way.

jmreire

TL17 wrote: »

The more I read about timing and the whole logistics of the whole sad business the more I realise he was not alone. Could not have carried all that off alone. And be composed to carry on as normal. There is more to this

My first thought's on this whole unfortunate saga was that there had to be a 2nd person involved, if only because of the weight issue. Bobby was no light weight, even if Quirke as a farmer would be used to physical activity. Imagine, Quirke is hiding behind the van...on the passenger side or at the rear, out of sight. Bobby leaves the house and walk's to the van, and open's the driver's door and starts to enter the van, putting one foot inside maybe. At this stage, his back is towards Quirke, and Quirke makes his move...Bobby may have heard something and turned, but it's too late Quirke smashes the bar down on his head, Bobby slump's to the ground....poleaxed, literallly. Quirke hit's him again several times as was shown in the autopsy. Then Quirke at this stage has to move the body some where close by, but out of sight, and cover's it. Even for a fit man....moving some one the size of Bobby, dead weight would not be an easy task. And later on, there would be the problem of moving the body 100 metres to where the tank was located...and placing the body in the tank. not such a job for two grown men, but for one man by himself??? It does raise a question though how Quirke managed to do it by himself.

magentur

jmreire wrote: »

Then Quirke at this stage has to move the body some where close by, but out of sight, and cover's it. Even for a fit man....moving some one the size of Bobby, dead weight would not be an easy task. And later on, there would be the problem of moving the body 100 metres to where the tank was located...and placing the body in the tank. not such a job for two grown men, but for one man by himself??? It does raise a question though how Quirke managed to do it by himself.

Not that difficult. He was a farmer used to moving weights And if he had planned it he could have used something like a pallet jack or shopping trolly to move the body the 100m.

blackcard

Did Bobby Ryan spend many nights at Mary Lowry's? Would Quirke have known he was spending that night there?

mycro2013

blackcard wrote: »

Did Bobby Ryan spend many nights at Mary Lowry's? Would Quirke have known he was spending that night there?

And why was he getting so many messages on the night in question to call over. What was so important.

freshpopcorn

blackcard wrote: »

Did Bobby Ryan spend many nights at Mary Lowry's? Would Quirke have known he was spending that night there?

Well he was meant to have being obsessed with her but he rented the farm he'd have known easily enough if she had visitors.

Electric Sheep

mycro2013 wrote: »

And why was he getting so many messages on the night in question to call over. What was so important.

He didn't - the evidence presented at the trial showed there were only two text messages between Bobby Ryan and Mary Lowry that night.

Spanish Eyes

The Valley of the Squinting Windows didn't work this time around .

My OH is from a deep country background, and I swear to god his family would know everything about you within five minutes, but would never reveal anything about themselves to a "non local". You would just have to guess or get the gen from OH. Not bad people by any means just to say, but they have a nose on them for everything going on around.

Was there a closing of ranks I wonder?

Vicarious Function

The shock described by the Ryan siblings when they were told that the body was found on the Lowry farm was so palpable. What were they to think?

I notice they were told by phone. I would have thought being given the news that their Dad's body had been found would require being told in person rather than by phone.

freshpopcorn

Vicarious Function wrote: »

The shock described by the Ryan siblings when they were told that the body was found on the Lowry farm was so palpable. What were they to think?

I notice they were told by phone. I would have thought being given the news that their Dad's body had been found would require being told in person rather than by phone.

It's a hard one to call the Gardai may have being afraid she'd have being told by somebody else if they didn't do it.
They'd have being a large presence around the farm/house and somebody else would have rang/told them.

Vicarious Function

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It's a hard one to call the Gardai may have being afraid she'd have being told by somebody else if they didn't do it.
They'd have being a large presence around the farm/house and somebody else would have rang/told them.

That's a good point, freshpopcorn. It would have been a very ignorant onlooker that would have lifted the phone to give them this news. Unfortunately though, there seems to be no shortage of ignoramuses in this world.

up for anything

Sajid Javid wrote: »

Some of the points raised by the Prime Directive are valid.
Abnormal behavior in itself is not a crime but when taken in its entirety may assist in one forming a view point that maybe Mary has and never had whats called empathy this could be used as evidence in Quirkes Appeal.
In reality murder or assisting in a murder/cover up is abnormal as is shagging your best friends Husband not once not twice but loads of times without any concern for the emotional catastrophe that would eventually ensue for all concerned. Had Mary been resident in another country well .............................................

Prime Directive? What's Star Trek got to do with this?

Do you really think that being unfaithful to a spouse or partner with someone connected to you both intimately is abnormal? I'd imagine it's probably the most common type of infidelity in the same way most children are abused by someone within the home or most women are killed by people known to them. It's not that easy for people of either sex to find someone to have sex with unless they frequent swinging sites or go out a lot. The easiest place to form a new relationship is close to home with someone known to you. When love or lust rear their heads emotional catastrophes aren't what the people involved are thinking about. Do you really think Mary Lawlor was singular in that? It may only reveal that she had a lack of empathy for Imelda Quirk and even then we don't know that that is true. And she isn't resident in a different country so why should you even mention that.

Question: why is Patrick Quirke always referred to by his full name or his surname but posters are apparently on a first-name basis with the two women at the centre of this trial, "Mary" and "Imelda"?

It's like people are assuming to know these women, or inserting themselves in this horrible story as quasi-friends, there have even people in this thread offering advice to Imelda Quirke.

Sorry for the mini rant about something that might appear petty, but it really grates.

Pat10

My theory is that it was meant to be a beating that went wrong. Rumours are that he had help. If he had help then I don't believe that it was pre-planned murder. The chances that everyone would stay quiet before the murder are remote. Someone would have alerted the authorities.

I believe he paid either one or two people to give him a beating (warning) and it went wrong. Whoever drove the van was picked up by the other person.

McCrack

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Question: why is Patrick Quirke always referred to by his full name or his surname but posters are apparently on a first-name basis with the two women at the centre of this trial, "Mary" and "Imelda"?

It's like people are assuming to know these women, or inserting themselves in this horrible story as quasi-friends, there have even people in this thread offering advice to Imelda Quirke.

Sorry for the mini rant about something that might appear petty, but it really grates.

Because for people like yourself this has been one big soap opera the last 14 weeks and now is your time to blather assuming and misinformed drivel based on salacious media reports in public. 90 pages now and counting

McCrack

McCrack wrote: »

now is your time to blather assuming and misinformed drivel

What kind of fishwife's abuse of English is this?

Calm down and say something intelligible, man.

realdanbreen

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Question: why is Patrick Quirke always referred to by his full name or his surname but posters are apparently on a first-name basis with the two women at the centre of this trial, "Mary" and "Imelda"?

It's like people are assuming to know these women, or inserting themselves in this horrible story as quasi-friends, there have even people in this thread offering advice to Imelda Quirke.

Sorry for the mini rant about something that might appear petty, but it really grates.

Well if you just call him 'patrick' he could be mistaken for Patrick in SpongeBob.

4ensic15

If you call him Paddy you would be tarring all Irish manhood.

Beechwoodspark

Apparently mary tore down the missing person signs and wanted as little as possible discussion about moonlights disappearance

Would make ya wonder

Mr. CooL ICE

McCrack wrote: »

I see the fishwives are continuing to blather their nonsense speculation and armchair detectives on this thread

McCrack wrote: »

Because for people like yourself this has been one big soap opera the last 14 weeks and now is your time to blather assuming and misinformed drivel based on salacious media reports in public. 90 pages now and counting

Mod: So far, roughly have of your contributions to this thread has been you berating others for contributing to this thread.

Cut it out.

officepest

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Question: why is Patrick Quirke always referred to by his full name or his surname but posters are apparently on a first-name basis with the two women at the centre of this trial, "Mary" and "Imelda"?

It's like people are assuming to know these women, or inserting themselves in this horrible story as quasi-friends, there have even people in this thread offering advice to Imelda Quirke.

Sorry for the mini rant about something that might appear petty, but it really grates.

loads of posters have used full names, surnames, first names, including you

even you have been referring to them as Quirke and Ryan, very informal

Are you friends with both? Which Quirke and Ryan, there are many

jmreire

up for anything wrote: »

Prime Directive? What's Star Trek got to do with this?

Do you really think that being unfaithful to a spouse or partner with someone connected to you both intimately is abnormal? I'd imagine it's probably the most common type of infidelity in the same way most children are abused by someone within the home or most women are killed by people known to them. It's not that easy for people of either sex to find someone to have sex with unless they frequent swinging sites or go out a lot. The easiest place to form a new relationship is close to home with someone known to you. When love or lust rear their heads emotional catastrophes aren't what the people involved are thinking about. Do you really think Mary Lawlor was singular in that? It may only reveal that she had a lack of empathy for Imelda Quirk and even then we don't know that that is true. And she isn't resident in a different country so why should you even mention that.

Hint: Google Sharia Law in Saudi Arabia, or the latest one in the news, Sultan of Brunei and Extreme version of Sharia Law..........especially the section dealing with Adultery.
,

KikiLaRue

jmreire wrote: »

Hint: Google Sharia Law in Saudi Arabia, or the latest one in the news, Sultan of Brunei and Extreme version of Sharia Law..........especially the section dealing with Adultery.
,

What the F has that got to do with anything?

BENDYBINN

Fair play to Imelda for standing by Pateen......One great woman!

the_pen_turner

When did Mary Lowry install the CCTV. Was is before or after Bobby Ryan's disappearance.

Does that show why Bobby Ryan was delayed leaving that morning

jmreire

KikiLaRue wrote: »

What the F has that got to do with anything?

Kiki hereunder copy of post by Sayjid Javid:

Originally Posted by Sajid Javid View Post
Some of the points raised by the Prime Directive are valid.
Abnormal behavior in itself is not a crime but when taken in its entirety may assist in one forming a view point that maybe Mary has and never had whats called empathy this could be used as evidence in Quirkes Appeal.
In reality murder or assisting in a murder/cover up is abnormal as is shagging your best friends Husband not once not twice but loads of times without any concern for the emotional catastrophe that would eventually ensue for all concerned. Had Mary been resident in another country well
.............................................
This post was queried by " Up for anything". and I attempted to answer it.And that's what it has to do with anything. Read some of the recent posts ( last 10 or so ) and everything will become clear, OK? If you still don't understand, let me know and I will explain further what it has to do with anything, no problem.