Patrick Quirke -Guilty

gozunda

pgj2015 wrote: »

https://www.thesun.ie/news/4056769/patrick-quirke-trial-latest-brutally-beat-neighbours-dog/


just reading this now. delighted he got life, says a lot about a person when they do that to an animal.

Some of the other news reports also talk of him regularly going on walks with his wife and their dogs.

Short tempered perhaps?

pgj2015

gozunda wrote: »

Some of the other news reports also talk of him regularly going on walks with his wife and their dogs.

Short tempered perhaps?

Having a temper is no excuse for beating an animal, i know lots of people with bad tempers and they wouldn't harm an animal in a million years.

BENDYBINN

How do the Gardaí know that this polish man didn’t commit the murder on his own?.........seems strange......

brooke 2

freshpopcorn wrote: »

The impression I got was.
He decided to use the tank on that day.
He moved one of the slabs.
He then said he looked in and saw a body.
He rang his wife a few times.(I think it was more than once).
She agreed when she looked inside.
She contacted the Gardai in some roundabout way.
The Gardai arrived on the scene and saw nothing.
One of them bent down and with a torch they believe they saw something.
Patrick and Imelda were sitting on a wall.
Patrick was very well dressed.
When the Gardai moved another one of the slabs some debris fell in on the body.

So, Patrick, and also Imelda (if we are to believe what Patrick said :rolleyes:) were already sure they had seen a body by the time the gárda arrived......but he, using a torch to shed some light on the contents, thought he had seen 'something'.....

freshpopcorn

Bobby's kids Michelle and Robert will be on The Late Late Show Tommorow night!

Wrongway1985

BENDYBINN wrote: »

How do the Gardaí know that this polish man didn’t commit the murder on his own?.........seems strange......

What suggests this man even existed?, The AI woman gave evidence that when discussing Bobby Ryans disappearance with Quirke, she said she was asked by him did she remember seeing the Polish helper on the farm to which she said she hadn't.

Another farm worker also gave evidence saying when the body was found, he spoke with Quirke to ask him what happened. Quirke said he heard it may have been a Polish gang.

No info on this Polish man, apart from hearsay his trail ends conveniently with a supposed suicide. Was this suicide verified by the Guards?

Muahahaha

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

No info on this Polish man, apart from hearsay his trail ends conveniently with a supposed suicide. Was this suicide verified by the Guards?

Read the Mirror article quoted above. From the Garda source it sounds like they spoke with the deceased mans family in Poland and from those conversations they formed the opinion that he committed suicide over a guilty conscience. As to what he felt guilty over we will never know but thats what is being reported as coming from a Garda source.

I had thought this Polish lad was a strawman invented by Quirke. But it turns out that he did exist and he did commit suicide according to the Garda source. So yes it seems Gardai did verify his death and during conversations with his family they got info that led them to believe his suicide was over a guilty conscience. Its either that or the Mirror is literally making up a story to sell papers but I doubt that is the case because tabloids tend not to pick fights with the Gardai as they rely on them so much for all their crime stories. The entire Sunday World is just page upon page of Garda leaks so tabloids have to keep them onside and are unlikely to make up lies about a Garda source.

KikiLaRue

Muahahaha wrote: »

Read the Mirror article quoted above. From the Garda source it sounds like they spoke with the deceased mans family in Poland and from those conversations they formed the opinion that he committed suicide over a guilty conscience. As to what he felt guilty over we will never know but thats what is being reported as coming from a Garda source.

I had thought this Polish lad was a strawman invented by Quirke. But it turns out that he did exist and he did commit suicide according to the Garda source. So yes it seems Gardai did verify his death and during conversations with his family they got info that led them to believe his suicide was over a guilty conscience. Its either that or the Mirror is literally making up a story to sell papers but I doubt that is the case because tabloids tend not to pick fights with the Gardai as they rely on them so much for all their crime stories. The entire Sunday World is just page upon page of Garda leaks so tabloids have to keep them onside and are unlikely to make up lies about a Garda source.

An anonymous Garda source doesn’t lend much credibility to the story.

Edgware

BENDYBINN wrote: »

How do the Gardaí know that this polish man didn’t commit the murder on his own?.........seems strange......

Did they check out the butler?

freshpopcorn

Edgware wrote: »

Did they check out the butler?

Patrick Quirke had farm hands/labourers over the years from what I know.
I don't know about a butler tough.

paleoperson

Edgware wrote: »

Did they check out the butler?

But were either of them witnessed walking around like they owned the place like Quirke was?

Ah see you didn't think of that did you? You have to have ironclad evidence like that before you get a conviction.

gozunda

pgj2015 wrote: »

Having a temper is no excuse for beating an animal, i know lots of people with bad tempers and they wouldn't harm an animal in a million years.

Nope. Who said that? Of course its not an ' excuse' (sic). That kinda thing is indicative a short temper imo. People with short tempers imo tend to lash out - at people - at children- anything that annoys them. I reckon the dog wasn't given an exemption from it either.

farmertipp

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

What suggests this man even existed?, The AI woman gave evidence that when discussing Bobby Ryans disappearance with Quirke, she said she was asked by him did she remember seeing the Polish helper on the farm to which she said she hadn't.

Another farm worker also gave evidence saying when the body was found, he spoke with Quirke to ask him what happened. Quirke said he heard it may have been a Polish gang.

No info on this Polish man, apart from hearsay his trail ends conveniently with a supposed suicide. Was this suicide verified by the Guards?

I know the area and feel it would be impossible to move the van to Banda woods and get back to Lowry farm without help as it is a bit of a trek between both . also you would have to walk a busy enough road for some of it..

Wrongway1985

Muahahaha wrote: »

Read the Mirror article quoted above. From the Garda source it sounds like they spoke with the deceased mans family in Poland and from those conversations they formed the opinion that he committed suicide over a guilty conscience. As to what he felt guilty over we will never know but thats what is being reported as coming from a Garda source.

Thanks for I have read it and similar but to clarify an unknown garda source quantifies as hearsay.

mikeymouse

farmertipp wrote: »

I know the area and feel it would be impossible to move the van to Banda woods and get back to Lowry farm without help as it is a bit of a trek between both . also you would have to walk a busy enough road for some of it..

Could he have gone back to his own farm from the Bansha woods without help , milk the cows, and go back to the Lowry farm later after the A.I. lady had left

Odelay

farmertipp wrote: »

I know the area and feel it would be impossible to move the van to Banda woods and get back to Lowry farm without help as it is a bit of a trek between both . also you would have to walk a busy enough road for some of it..

He had a pair of working ears. At that hour you’d hear a car coming for miles. Jog, hide in a gateway or turn your back to the traffic, listen, jog on again. You’d be surprised how far you can travel in 30mins once you put your mind to it.

Wrongway1985

farmertipp wrote: »

I know the area and feel it would be impossible to move the van to Banda woods and get back to Lowry farm without help as it is a bit of a trek between both . also you would have to walk a busy enough road for some of it..

Not ruling out an accomplice but may not have walked back if a vehicle was already planted if planned that way. Don't think many around at that hour as said anyhow.

Alrigghtythen

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Not ruling out an accomplice but may not have walked back if a vehicle was already planted if planned that way. Don't think many around at that hour as said anyhow.

In court they were quizzed about the old Toyota in the shed.What if the cattle grid sounds where from a car coming in, not going out?


Seperately, there was a maroon coloured car seen in the woods, I never read who owned it.

farmertipp

mikeymouse wrote: »

Could he have gone back to his own farm from the Bansha woods without help , milk the cows, and go back to the Lowry farm later after the A.I. lady had left

I'd say it would very hard to fit into timeframe involved..he lives 4 or 5 miles from Lowry farm..

Muahahaha

KikiLaRue wrote: »

An anonymous Garda source doesn’t lend much credibility to the story.

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Thanks for I have read it and similar but to clarify an unknown garda source quantifies as hearsay.

Well as I said in an earlier post newspapers dont tend to make stuff up about Gardai because if they did they would soon have the Garda Press Office onto them and their sources for future stories would be in jeopardy. Im not saying tabloids dont make up sources- they do- just not Garda ones because there is consequences on their operation if they do so. Crime journalists have a vested interested in keeping their Garda sources onside and if they go making stuff up about the Gardai that is not true then they'll soon find they no longer have Garda sources and be out of a job.

You can choose not to believe what the Garda source said if you want. Personally I feel it is true to the events that happened, the Polish guy did exist and he did commit suicide and the Gardai did feel he possibly could have been an accomplice to Quirke.

Calypso Realm

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Not ruling out an accomplice but may not have walked back if a vehicle was already planted if planned that way. Don't think many around at that hour as said anyhow.

Or it may well have just been simply a case of calling someone he trusted to collect him.

g6fdyotp5nj2l7

farmertipp wrote:

I'd say it would very hard to fit into timeframe involved..he lives 4 or 5 miles from Lowry farm..

Could he get to his own farm through the woods

g6fdyotp5nj2l7

Calypso Realm wrote:

Or it may well have just been simply a case of calling someone he trusted to collect him.

Have to say this is the conclusion I came to during the case, rightly or wrongly I've no idea

Edgware

Amina Old-fashioned Voter wrote: »

Could he get to his own farm through the woods

Or maybe he had dug a tunnel linking the farms

farmertipp

Amina Old-fashioned Voter wrote: »

Could he get to his own farm through the woods

possibly.. very long walk though

Calypso Realm

farmertipp wrote: »

possibly.. very long walk though

Another poster recently appeared to think this would be very difficult given the nature of the terrain - steep inclines, lots of brambles etc etc

Calypso Realm

Calypso Realm wrote: »

Another poster recently appeared to think this would be very difficult given the nature of the terrain - steep inclines, lots of brambles etc etc

It's only about 3km away, and as someone else said, you could walk the roads at that hour, because it would be easy to hide from traffic on the way. It's a very quiet route.

Wrongway1985

Muahahaha wrote: »

Im not saying tabloids dont make up sources- they do- just not Garda ones because there is consequences on their operation if they do so.

The source quoted is Garda told Limerick Leader nothing to do with the Mirror so consequences zero, Source is unknown could even be a friend of Pat Quirkes tbf after all wasn't the Guard they called upon body discovery an acquaintance, The Guards aren't officially standing by it so it is hearsay whether you choose to believe it or not.

Wrongway1985

Calypso Realm wrote: »

Or it may well have just been simply a case of calling someone he trusted to collect him.

Well it was the wife Imelda when the body "discovery" was made.

farmertipp

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It's only about 3km away, and as someone else said, you could walk the roads at that hour, because it would be easy to hide from traffic on the way. It's a very quiet route.

a lot of houses along that by road . a lot of people up for work I don't think he would have made it given the time frame

realdanbreen

realdanbreen wrote: »

Scary that you could get a life sentence based on that evidence.

I bet if the death penalty was the punishment for this crime not too many of the jury and certainly not too many posters on here would be as convinced of his guilt as they say they are.

KikiLaRue

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well as I said in an earlier post newspapers dont tend to make stuff up about Gardai because if they did they would soon have the Garda Press Office onto them and their sources for future stories would be in jeopardy. Im not saying tabloids dont make up sources- they do- just not Garda ones because there is consequences on their operation if they do so. Crime journalists have a vested interested in keeping their Garda sources onside and if they go making stuff up about the Gardai that is not true then they'll soon find they no longer have Garda sources and be out of a job.

You can choose not to believe what the Garda source said if you want. Personally I feel it is true to the events that happened, the Polish guy did exist and he did commit suicide and the Gardai did feel he possibly could have been an accomplice to Quirke.

That doesn’t make sense. How would any individual Garda know what any other Garda told a newspaper?

If this was true, Patrick Quirke’s defence would have brought it up in court as it’s the closest thing they have to another suspect.

Particularly since the guy is now dead. If there was any possibility of him being involved it would have made way more sense for Quirke to pin it on him than Mary Lowry.

Field east

UNBALANCED / BAISED REPORTING
Last Sunday’s Sunday Independant reported six cases in which Patrick Quirke lost heavily on investments made and that he is apparently €1m in debt. How come the paper did not report on the investments where he did make a profit?
I suppose after the papers staff group think meeting on Monday morning - as is the case every Monday morning- it decided to take that angle as it looks more dramatic and contributes most to the papers circulation than if other angles were taken.
It’s not often that a publication ‘unknowingly’ presents such a clear case of blatant baise/ totally unbalanced reporting

I expect it’s source would also have the gains as well as the losses made by Quirke.

realdanbreen

Field east wrote: »

UNBALANCED / BAISED REPORTING
Last Sunday’s Sunday Independant reported six cases in which Patrick Quirke lost heavily on investments made and that he is apparently €1m in debt. How come the paper did not report on the investments where he did make a profit?
I suppose after the papers staff group think meeting on Monday morning - as is the case every Monday morning- it decided to take that angle as it looks more dramatic and contributes most to the papers circulation than if other angles were taken.
It’s not often that a publication ‘unknowingly’ presents such a clear case of blatant baise/ totally unbalanced reporting

I expect it’s source would also have the gains as well as the losses made by Quirke.

The whole indo group is gone to shyte. At least with the tabloids they more or less tell you that they are reporting pure horsecrap but the indo don't know what readers they want to appeal to. Even diehard sindo readers must be sick of eoghan Harris writing about the old Ira in West cork 100 years ago!

Calypso Realm

gozunda wrote: »

One question - it has been reported that Mr Ryan left the house at 6.30 am on the morning of the murder.

Was it disclosed what was the usual time time for Mr Quirke to be there?

Mary Lowry in her testimony expressed surprise at the fact Q arrived at the farm that morning at 8.30, commenting on how it was earlier than he normally would. In addition, the AI lady, who had been attending for years, said he'd always be finished milking the cows on his own farm by 9.30. However, on the day Bobby Ryan went missing, this wasn't the case so something must have upset his normal regime.

Muahahaha

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

The source quoted is Garda told Limerick Leader nothing to do with the Mirror so consequences zero, Source is unknown could even be a friend of Pat Quirkes tbf after all wasn't the Guard they called upon body discovery an acquaintance, The Guards aren't officially standing by it so it is hearsay whether you choose to believe it or not.

Well given it is the Limerick Leader then I would put even more credence in the reporting on the Garda source. That paper has been on the go since 1889, they're a professional outlet who dont engage in tabloid hackery. An editor of such an institution is not going to let his journalists make up falsehoods about what the Gardai are saying to them.

As for hearsay it is always that way with journalists reporting on murder cases- they report information on the events from the court case and they report information coming to them via Garda sources which fills in the background details of what cant be said in an open court. Hearsay has no legal value but thats irrelevant here, the report is merely telling us what happened during the Garda investigation, details that can only be made public under the veil of journalistic privledge.

As said you can choose to not believe the story about the Polish lads suicide and the Garda interest in him as a possible accomplice. But personally I cant see any angle for the Garda to either lie or for a journalist from a paper like the Limerick Leader to completely fabricate the story and essentially put their entire career in jeopardy. None of it means the Polish lad was an accomplice but it does show us Garda detectives were considering the scenario and wanted to rule him out. Then by speaking to his family they discover his suicide and their conversations with them lead them to believe that the suicide was over a guilty conscience.

Muahahaha

KikiLaRue wrote: »

That doesn’t make sense. How would any individual Garda know what any other Garda told a newspaper?

.

Not sure what you are getting at here but journalists vet and corroborate their sources. They're not going to just report what some Garda with no involvement in the case whatsoever told them. If they get second hand information they go back to the original source to check its credibility. They actively seek out Gardai who have actually worked on the investigation to get inside info on it. They already know these Gardai on first name terms and have relationships with them because they've been dealing with them for years via their court reporting.

If this was true, Patrick Quirke’s defence would have brought it up in court as it’s the closest thing they have to another suspect.

Particularly since the guy is now dead. If there was any possibility of him being involved it would have made way more sense for Quirke to pin it on him than Mary Lowry.

He tried to pin it on Lowry and that didnt work. How was he to pin it on the Polish guy? Say he saw him murder Ryan but just forgot to call the Gardai? That makes him an accomplice straight away. Where was the motive for this guy to kill Ryan vis a vis Quirkes internet searches and love rival history with Ryan. Finally you don't even know if Quirke knew the Polish lad had committed suicide at the time of his arrest, Gardai didnt know it until they went tracking him down over in Poland. Thats not information they would have been sharing with Quirke during questioning.

BENDYBINN

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well given it is the Limerick Leader then I would put even more credence in the reporting on the Garda source. That paper has been on the go since 1889, they're a professional outlet who dont engage in tabloid hackery. An editor of such an institution is not going to let his journalists make up falsehoods about what the Gardai are saying to them.

As for hearsay it is always that way with journalists reporting on murder cases- they report information on the events from the court case and they report information coming to them via Garda sources which fills in the background details of what cant be said in an open court. Hearsay has no legal value but thats irrelevant here, the report is merely telling us what happened during the Garda investigation, details that can only be made public under the veil of journalistic privledge.

As said you can choose to not believe the story about the Polish lads suicide and the Garda interest in him as a possible accomplice. But personally I cant see any angle for the Garda to either lie or for a journalist from a paper like the Limerick Leader to completely fabricate the story and essentially put their entire career in jeopardy. None of it means the Polish lad was an accomplice but it does show us Garda detectives were considering the scenario and wanted to rule him out. Then by speaking to his family they discover his suicide and their conversations with them lead them to believe that the suicide was over a guilty conscience.

And the Gardaí know he was just an accomplice, not the main man???
How convenient!

johnjacob

from personal experience newspapers will print rubbish articles and things that are factually untrue

there's no comeback

These small regional papers are just as bad at it as the indo and the daily star

Unnamed sources can say anything, guards gossips like no one else

Look at the articles that have come out since

Pat the Baker

Pat spends first night in prison on suicide watch

Pat is a multi millionare

Pat is broke

Pat beat a dog

Pat cried on his first night

Pats wife visits him in prison

they will print anything with his name in it

The next story is Pat is best friends with Graham Dwyer ... Joe Reilly etc in Prison

Just bull**** stories

Edgware

Meanwhile Pat enters the second week of his life sentence

upupup

Bobby Ryan's son and daughter,Michelle and Robert are on the late late show tonight

upupup

upupup wrote: »

Bobby Ryan's son and daughter,Michelle and Robert are on the late late show tonight

There'll be some amount of popcorn eaten here tonight.

realdanbreen

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

There'll be some amount of popcorn eaten here tonight.

There would be a mountain of it eaten if Mary Lowry made an appearance!

Wrongway1985

Muahahaha wrote: »

As said you can choose to not believe the story about the Polish lads suicide and the Garda interest in him as a possible accomplice. But personally I cant see any angle for the Garda to either lie or for a journalist from a paper like the Limerick Leader to completely fabricate the story and essentially put their entire career in jeopardy. None of it means the Polish lad was an accomplice but it does show us Garda detectives were considering the scenario and wanted to rule him out. Then by speaking to his family they discover his suicide and their conversations with them lead them to believe that the suicide was over a guilty conscience.

I don't pay no heed to it as it's very frail detail an unknown garda source saying it was his/or a colleagues assumption a Polish man took his own life due to a guilty conscience. No comment from the mans family? No info or pics? this is quite the invisible man we have here!

It doesn't appear to have factored in to the overall picture a man who (say he did exist) could only have known Quirke for a minimal period would help him carry out the murder of someone, he doesn't confide his guilt to anyone and he just tops himself in another country no less ending this trail that nobody follows up?, forgive me but that without official confirmation should be written off as hearsay.

freshpopcorn

Regarding the Polish guy I'm about 95% sure I remember who was spreading this about at the time. It could have being 2012/13.
It was something I saw shared on Facebook but I hadn't much interest in it at the time.

farmertipp

Field east wrote: »

UNBALANCED / BAISED REPORTING
Last Sunday’s Sunday Independant reported six cases in which Patrick Quirke lost heavily on investments made and that he is apparently €1m in debt. How come the paper did not report on the investments where he did make a profit?
I suppose after the papers staff group think meeting on Monday morning - as is the case every Monday morning- it decided to take that angle as it looks more dramatic and contributes most to the papers circulation than if other angles were taken.
It’s not often that a publication ‘unknowingly’ presents such a clear case of blatant baise/ totally unbalanced reporting

I expect it’s source would also have the gains as well as the losses made by Quirke.

fair comment. I would say losses far outweigh any gains.. I would say reports on polish end of it were fairly spot on.

Calypso Realm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Regarding the Polish guy I'm about 95% sure I remember who was spreading this about at the time. It could have being 2012/13.
It was something I saw shared on Facebook but I hadn't much interest in it at the time.

In addition, someone (farm-worker?) gave evidence in court to say Quirke had told him he'd heard some Polish gang were involved. Think this convo took place a few days after the body was found.

freshpopcorn

It's in the mirror now that the daughter doesn't believe it was a Polish man because he's not here to defend himself but she believes somebody else was involved.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/bobby-ryans-daughter-says-pat-15025251?fbclid=IwAR2-TEDwgCx8fbMmHKx80UMIuA0e25AlNPBrIHX1vdcGsQL8oJHGxl8J0iw

Calypso Realm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It's in the mirror now that the daughter doesn't believe it was a Polish man because he's not here to defend himself but she believes somebody else was involved.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/bobby-ryans-daughter-says-pat-15025251?fbclid=IwAR2-TEDwgCx8fbMmHKx80UMIuA0e25AlNPBrIHX1vdcGsQL8oJHGxl8J0iw

She's certainly got a point in terms of the body being neatly positioned in the tank. As to whether or not this amounts to evidence of an accomplice, I've no idea, given my current knowledge of the actual crime scene. What depth of water was in the tank? I would have thought this could have influenced things; if was sufficiently deep body would have floated.

freshpopcorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It's in the mirror now that the daughter doesn't believe it was a Polish man because he's not here to defend himself but she believes somebody else was involved.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/bobby-ryans-daughter-says-pat-15025251?fbclid=IwAR2-TEDwgCx8fbMmHKx80UMIuA0e25AlNPBrIHX1vdcGsQL8oJHGxl8J0iw

I really feel for that poor Polish mans family to have his name dragged in such a manner after his tragic death. With an appeal about to commence I’ve no doubt the Gardai won’t be saying anything and that’s fair enough but I don’t agree with the inference of this person being involved considering it wasn’t presented as evidence in a court.
As for what the Ryan family think, we’ll likely get some comments tonight but they’ll be warned in terms of what they can say on live TV- it may well be recorded in advance for legal reasons?