Summer Transfer Superthread

ERG89

gimli2112 wrote: »

Raiola looking for a fee of £10.7M to make the De Ligt transfer happen according to SSN. How annoyed would the player be if a dream move fell apart because of something like that?

Well its kinda a given he wants money; he'll want more in 18 months too for resigning. No matter how talented his clients always lead to problems.
When a young, talented centre back is on the market & not many are in for him it's rather odd that the clubs that go for him pull out when money gets more unrealistic. He's probably underpriced in Ajax's fee but overpriced with his wage.

rob316

Guardian reporting Palace want a gauranteed 50m plus the removal of the zaha sell on clause for Bissaka.
They know how desperate United are. That would value him almost 70m!

They first bid 35m plus 15m add-ons but we're told United winning the champions league was wildly unrealistic. Oh burn!

justshane

Fred The Red wrote: »

Sorry you could be correct. But think Pogba is on his way.
Juve midfield already strong so will suit Pogbas more lazy attributes

I really like Pogba as a player but he might have to get used to sitting on the bench should he join. Can really came good as the season went on and Bentancur looks the real deal and just signed a new contract. Then you have Pjanic who sets the tempo better than most in the world at the moment.

CantGetNoSleep

rob316 wrote: »

Guardian reporting Palace want a gauranteed 50m plus the removal of the zaha sell on clause.
They know how desperate United are. That would value him almost 70m!

They first bid 35m plus 15m add-ons but we're told United winning the champions league was wildly unrealistic. Oh burn!

I'd be telling them to take a hike if I were they. Plenty of other RBs around, AWB looked dodge at the U21s, they have a young lad they can throw in there. 35m and if they don't take it leave Palace with an unhappy player who can move on for less next summer after a poor and disinterested season.

TitianGerm

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

I'd be telling them to take a hike if I were they. Plenty of other RBs around, AWB looked dodge at the U21s, they have a young lad they can throw in there. 35m and if they don't take it leave Palace with an unhappy player who can move on for less next summer after a poor and disinterested season.

United paid £17m (maybe it was less?) for James already. Palace are probably looking at that and saying AWB is definitely worth more than double that fee considering his performances last season.

AWB was the best RB in the league for me last year (just ahead of TAA) and Palace are in a position where they don't need to sell so it'll have to be a big fee to get them to sell.

Maybe United will go for Munier as an alternative though.

ERG89

https://twitter.com/footballespana_/status/1143244172498894848?s=19

machiavellianme

TitianGerm wrote: »

United paid £17m (maybe it was less?) for James already. Palace are probably looking at that and saying AWB is definitely worth more than double that fee considering his performances last season.

AWB was the best RB in the league for me last year (just ahead of TAA) and Palace are in a position where they don't need to sell so it'll have to be a big fee to get them to sell.

Maybe United will go for Munier as an alternative though.

I agree, Palace don't need to sell so why would they offer a cut price deal on their breakthrough player. The ball is entirely in their court. Given the prices mentioned for Maguire, he's worth at least 50+ million.
Apart from AWB's first name in alphabetical order, there is no list where he comes before TAA though. Fewer goals, fewer assists, fewer clean sheets, fewer champions league medals, fewer points/bonus points in fantasy football. There's absolutely no way he was the best RB in the league but he's got a lot of potential.

gimli2112

machiavellianme wrote: »

I agree, Palace don't need to sell so why would they offer a cut price deal on their breakthrough player. The ball is entirely in their court. Given the prices mentioned for Maguire, he's worth at least 50+ million.
Apart from AWB's first name in alphabetical order, there is no list where he comes before TAA though. Fewer goals, fewer assists, fewer clean sheets, fewer champions league medals, fewer points/bonus points in fantasy football. There's absolutely no way he was the best RB in the league but he's got a lot of potential.

I let it go because Titan is a Liverpool fan but yeah I'd have to agree with you.

Fitz*

AWB seems to be a more defensive full back than the new age ones that can attack and defend.

United have a big problem with their full backs not being good going forward, and the only one that they have that can attack is Dalot - who AWB will be replacing. Dalot is probably better going forward than Dalot, but AWB is better than Dalot at defending. Right now, I can't see AWB improving the awful right hand side at United through his attacking play. Even though he is a former winger, his crossing is not exactly his strong point, his tackling is.

Unless a move to 3 at the back with AWB as the RCB and Dalot as a RWB is on the cards?

Boom_Bap

ERG89 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/footballespana_/status/1143244172498894848?s=19

That's an excellent addition for Ajax, he'll suit their style and will slot in if they lose any of the attacking players.

TitianGerm

FitzShane wrote: »

AWB seems to be a more defensive full back than the new age ones that can attack and defend.

United have a big problem with their full backs not being good going forward, and the only one that they have that can attack is Dalot - who AWB will be replacing. Dalot is probably better going forward than Dalot, but AWB is better than Dalot at defending. Right now, I can't see AWB improving the awful right hand side at United through his attacking play. Even though he is a former winger, his crossing is not exactly his strong point, his tackling is.

Unless a move to 3 at the back with AWB as the RCB and Dalot as a RWB is on the cards?

They might be setting up to try AWB as a RB and Dalot as a RW because he is comfortable on the ball and has a good cross.

Trigger

TitianGerm wrote: »

They might be setting up to try AWB as a RB and Dalot as a RW because he is comfortable on the ball and has a good cross.

I think the idea would be to have Dalot as cover for both sides plus RW, Ole has also set up on occasion with three at the back and I'd expect AWB to be part of the 3 in those occasions so Dalot could play as WB.

Dalot played more in his breakthrough season from the left anyways. We really dont have a back up left back at the mo so I'd say he will be cover for the left, he will see plenty of chances there when shaw is injured ha. Young cover on the right

Fitz*

Looking like Alberto Moreno will sign for Villareal, on a free transfer.

Mr.Nice Guy

machiavellianme wrote: »

Apart from AWB's first name in alphabetical order, there is no list where he comes before TAA though. Fewer goals, fewer assists, fewer clean sheets, fewer champions league medals, fewer points/bonus points in fantasy football. There's absolutely no way he was the best RB in the league but he's got a lot of potential.

AWB was far better defensively.

Blocks
TAA - 3 / AWB - 16

Interceptions
TAA - 35 / AWB - 84

Tackles
TAA - 61 / AWB - 129

Tackles Won
TAA - 39 / AWB - 90

Clearances
TAA - 62 / AWB - 129

Headed Clearances
TAA - 22 / AWB - 59

Aerial Battles Won
TAA - 9 / AWB - 43

Although it's not a complete clean sweep...

Penalties conceded
TAA - 0 / AWB - 1

Source: premierleague.com

And in the recent PL season they had the same number of clean sheets (12), plus while TAA outscored him on goals, neither were great in that department (1 vs 0). Where TAA beats him out handily is on assists (12 vs 3).

I would personally take TAA if I had to choose between them because for me he's a better all-rounder, but it's an exaggeration to say he beats him in every department.

I think it's a fair point though to query Wan-Bissaka's attacking stats as they are by no means remarkable. I would be happy with his signing at United but there are bigger issues to worry about in the team and tbh I think there are just as good RB options elsewhere. Ricardo Pereira would be a good alternative imo and a better all-rounder.

TitianGerm

https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1143607725068304392?s=19

Gomez done deal for Everton. Was very good for them last season.

Edit:

Ndombele getting close for Spurs according to Di Marzio.

https://gianlucadimarzio.com/it/tottenham-ndombele-accordo-in-chiusura-le-ultime

eagle eye

I'm shocked that the likes of Real Madrid and Bayern aren't after Ndombele.

This is it

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

AWB was far better defensively.



And in the recent PL season they had the same number of clean sheets (12), plus while TAA outscored him on goals, neither were great in that department (1 vs 0). Where TAA beats him out handily is on assists (12 vs 3).

I would personally take TAA if I had to choose between them because for me he's a better all-rounder, but it's an exaggeration to say he beats him in every department.

I think it's a fair point though to query Wan-Bissaka's attacking stats as they are by no means remarkable. I would be happy with his signing at United but there are bigger issues to worry about in the team and tbh I think there are just as good RB options elsewhere. Ricardo Pereira would be a good alternative imo and a better all-rounder.

I often wonder about these type of stats. Someone a few days ago posted Titus Bramble vs some top defender from back in '08 or '09 and he was better in most departments. The reason being, players in lesser teams, for want of a better word, have a lot more defending to do than those at top teams, if that makes sense? Of course they'll have more blocks, tackles, clearences, etc. because they've far more defending to do. Not something I've looked into, but seems logical to me.

In this context, I agree, TAA is better, but AWB looks to be a quality player.

Kiith

N'dombele seems like he'd be absolutely perfect for us.

So we probably wont

Fitz*

Some of those stats remind me of the stat of goalkeepers having the most saves. It's almost always the teams at the bottom of the league as they face the most shots. Whoever faces the most shots is going to have the most saves, roughly.

So really, IMO, those stats can be misconstrued.

This is it

For example, taken from 08/09. I think we'd both agree who the better player actually was.

TitianGerm

Kiith wrote: »

N'dombele seems like he'd be absolutely perfect for us.

So we probably wont

Don't get your hopes up. You'll probably end up with a happy meal and a half eaten Snickers if last year is anything to go by

eagle eye

This is it wrote:

In this context, I agree, TAA is better, but AWB looks to be a quality player.

In what context?
For me on the plain old eye test I'd have AWB all day.

This is it

eagle eye wrote: »

In what context?
For me on the plain old eye test I'd have AWB all day.

My first point was on stats not showing the full picture in general, I then moved onto AWB v TAA, so in the context of AWB v TAA, TAA is the better player in my opinion.

Guy:Incognito

This is it wrote: »

I often wonder about these type of stats. Someone a few days ago posted Titus Bramble vs some top defender from back in '08 or '09 and he was better in most departments. The reason being, players in lesser teams, for want of a better word, have a lot more defending to do than those at top teams, if that makes sense? Of course they'll have more blocks, tackles, clearences, etc. because they've far more defending to do. Not something I've looked into, but seems logical to me.

In this context, I agree, TAA is better, but AWB looks to be a quality player.

This is why De Gea's stats were such an outlier in the last few seasons and why he got the credit for UTD finishing as high as they did. The other keepers in the league around him in the list of saves made were from the bottom sides. He was as busy in goal as keepers playing for relegated sides.

Guy:Incognito

eagle eye wrote: »

In what context?
For me on the plain old eye test I'd have AWB all day.

and yet theres no stories about Liverpool cashing in on TAA and looking to buy AWB.

I'll go with the Jurgen Klopp test personally.

Kiith

TitianGerm wrote: »

Don't get your hopes up. You'll probably end up with a happy meal and a half eaten Snickers if last year is anything to go by

Technically that would be an improvement over last summer :pac:

CSF

From the eye test I’d be inclined to agree with the stats. AWB looks a better defender, TAA a good bit better as an all rounder. I don’t think they’re operating on quite the same level based on last season.

Guy:Incognito

CSF wrote: »

From the eye test I’d be inclined to agree with the stats. AWB looks a better defender, TAA a good bit better as an all rounder. I don’t think they’re operating on quite the same level based on last season.

Put him in the Liverpool team instead of TAA and he wont have those stats though. The opportunity just isnt there for TAA to get the numbers. In a good way.

Comic Book Guy

Sky Sports News reporting Spurs have agreed a 65m deal for Tanguy Ndombele.

Kiith

Yeah, looks like we actually bought a player.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/11749003/tottenham-agree-65m-deal-for-lyons-tanguy-ndombele

Mr.Nice Guy

Ndombele's been one of my favourites since the 17/18 season. Been a pleasure to watch him develop at Lyon into one of the world's best midfielders. Was hoping United would go for him but can understand why top players are giving the club a miss right now. Happy he's going to a good club like Spurs and think he'll be a big hit there. Guess I know my second team next season.

CSF

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Put him in the Liverpool team instead of TAA and he wont have those stats though. The opportunity just isnt there for TAA to get the numbers. In a good way.

Like I was saying, even from the eye test I think he is more solid defensively. Obviously the stats skew quite how much, but when I watch the 2 play, AWB looks more natural defensively.


But the gap between TAA and AWB as an attacking outlet is much bigger than AWB's defensive outlet.


Hard to feel like we can compare a guy who has just been a star player for the Champions League winner with a lad who has had a good, solid breakout season for a bottom half Premier League team. Levels, etc.

eagle eye

This is it wrote:

My first point was on stats not showing the full picture in general, I then moved onto AWB v TAA, so in the context of AWB v TAA, TAA is the better player in my opinion.

In what way? AWB seems a smarter footballer and more physically commanding.

TitianGerm

eagle eye wrote: »

AWB seems a smarter footballer.

Ah here now let's not go overboard.

SureYWouldntYa

This is it wrote: »

For example, taken from 08/09. I think we'd both agree who the better player actually was.

AWB has a stupidly high successful tackle percentage as well as all the other stats, over 90% which puts him above almost everyone, even if he’s quick to tackle or in a defensive side it’s a serious stat

I can’t find a source for it now but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it in a few Statman Dave videos

ERG89

https://twitter.com/footballitalia/status/1143628560311173121?s=19

Semi related story:

https://twitter.com/footballitalia/status/1143506582891876353?s=19


https://twitter.com/footballitalia/status/1143632887146827781?s=19

Still expect them to get a forward in & Icardi out the door. Probably should try add a bit of quality behind the front man tho.


https://twitter.com/footballespana_/status/1143602603227529216?s=19

Barca slowly eeking lads out the door.

TimeToShine

The Italian clubs are doing serious business this summer.

Mr.Nice Guy

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

AWB has a stupidly high successful tackle percentage as well as all the other stats, over 90% which puts him above almost everyone, even if he’s quick to tackle or in a defensive side it’s a serious stat

I can’t find a source for it now but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it in a few Statman Dave videos

He had more successful tackles than any other player at one stage, including central midfielders.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/03/08/aaron-wan-bissaka-became-effective-defender-europe/

SureYWouldntYa

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

He had more successful tackles than any other player at one stage, including central midfielders.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/03/08/aaron-wan-bissaka-became-effective-defender-europe/

Few more details and good stats about him in this video, Tifo’s stuff is always good

https://youtu.be/jSwi5stBDj0

Morzadec

Really hard to compare AWB, someone playing at a relegation battling team, to TAA playing in a team challenging for the title.

AWB is a full back (or at least played as a full back last season - I know he started as a winger when he was younger). TAA, for me, when you look at his average position and the role he plays, is really a wing-back or right mid. The football terminology has not caught up with the reality of how attacking big teams use their "full-backs" (principal wide players).

AWB played a decent more Premier League games and would have been doing way more defending, so it's of no surprise at all that he blows TAA out of the water in his defensive stats.

Likewise it's probably not fair to compare AWB's attacking output when TAA is enjoying far more dominance, possession, attacking players to finish his chances and is also taking set pieces.

What I will say is that for the most part, if you want to play this role in a proactive attacking dominant team (which is what I believe Ole wants to build and what United fans want to see), the attacking element of the game is crucial, probably even more so than the defending side. City and Liverpool look to their central defenders and main DM as their principal defensive players, and the "full-backs" in most matches are principally creative attacking players.

That's where I would say there's a question mark over AWB. Can he do this? Can he be as effective as the likes of Robertson, TAA, Mendy and Walker going forward and add another vital attacking dimension which really helps you routinely dispose of the weaker Premier Legaue teams and help put up the remarkable consistency we saw last season in these matches.

I'm not doubting he can do this - just that he is as yet unproven.

TAA is by no means weak defending. I would therefore say that TAA is at the moment the more proven all-round player. He's also played in two Champions League finals - after Mbappe and maybe De Ligt he's probably the most highly rated player under 21 in Europe right now.

Transfermarkt values TAA at €80m, AWB at just €35m. Again a bit unfair to just use this as AWB hasn't had the chance to prove himself at a top club, but it's a representation of where their stock is at the moment.

TLDR: TAA is proven at this point, AWB still needs to make his mark at a top club (particularly in an attacking sense), so for this reason there's no doubt that at this stage TAA should be considered a superior player (for the moment at least)

yourdeadwright

eagle eye wrote: »

In what way? AWB seems a smarter footballer and more physically commanding.

AWB seems smarter than Trent, One corner alone this season would say your wrong

TitianGerm

Deal done on AWB according to Orenstein at £50m and £80k a week which seems reasonable.

Big thing though is they keep the sell on clause for Zaha so AWB could be around £30m if Zaha goes for the £80m Palace were rumoured to want last summer.

eagle eye

yourdeadwright wrote:

AWB seems smarter than Trent, One corner alone this season would say your wrong

No it wouldn't. It's very clear that AWB is right there at the top of the game as far as football intelligence is concerned.
You'd have to be blind not to see that.
I'm not running down TAA in any way, he is top class but imo AWB's football IQ makes him the better player.

Father Hernandez

yourdeadwright wrote: »

AWB seems smarter than Trent, One corner alone this season would say your wrong

Not sure how you can compare how smart two footballers are purely by one corner

ERG89

TitianGerm wrote: »

Big thing though is they keep the sell on clause for Zaha so AWB could be around £30m if Zaha goes for the £80m Palace were rumoured to want last summer.

Nobody is spending that on Zaha, maybe Arsenal would buy him for half that. Totally priced out of a move.
Dortmund were linked with him but got Hazard & Brandt instead for nearly half that fee.

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Not sure how you can compare how smart two footballers are purely by one corner

Tbf Alexander Arnold has played 2 Champions League final campaigns & ain't even 21. He's not lacking in game intelligence. Plays behind Salah too who ain't exactly Dirk Kuyt in terms of tracking back.

yourdeadwright

eagle eye wrote: »

No it wouldn't. It's very clear that AWB is right there at the top of the game as far as football intelligence is concerned.
You'd have to be blind not to see that.
I'm not running down TAA in any way, he is top class but imo AWB's football IQ makes him the better player.

AWB is a great prospect no doubt but lets not be silly currently he isn't on the same level as Trent ,He has a long long way to go

One has played in two Champions league finals.
Has 6 international caps.
Got right back of the season ,
Got in the Prem team of the season ,
Got in Champion league team of the season
Got 16 assists last season
Was part of the best defence In the Prem
And is almost a whole year younger

I'll give you a clue, all of the above is not Wan Bissaka

TitianGerm

ERG89 wrote: »

Nobody is spending that on Zaha, maybe Arsenal would buy him for half that. Totally priced out of a move.
Dortmund were linked with him but got Hazard & Brandt instead for nearly half that

I'm just giving the £80m as an example but he's their best player so they're right to ask for the £80m.

Palace are in a strong position. They don't need the money from a sale so they can wait it out. Only problem is is how long Zaha has on his contract? £50m next summer for example or he walks as a free agent the following year.

yourdeadwright

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Not sure how you can compare how smart two footballers are purely by one corner

I was joking
but in fairness that corner alone in what a 3 seconds clip show's Trent is an intelligent footballer,

yourdeadwright

Wan Bissak is a great prospect and a really good player but it quite laughable and hilarious that because he looks to be heading to United all of a sudden he is better than Trent .

Its like last season when all of a sudden Fred was better than Fabhino

ASOT

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wan Bissak is a great prospect and a really good player but it quite laughable and hilarious that because he looks to be heading to United all of a sudden he is better than Trent .

Its like last season when all of a sudden Fred was better than Fabhino

Your dead right.