Summer Transfer Superthread

LuckyLloyd

Shows the power of the actual giants. They get the coveted players for reasonable value.

Cookiemunster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Shows the power of the actual giants. They get the coveted players for reasonable value.

The fee being mentioned all summer was €65m, so Juventus didn't get him any cheaper than anyone else would have seeing as they ended up paying €75m.

Saying that, Rabiot, Ramsey and De Ligt for €75m. Not a bad summer for Juve.

ERG89

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The fee being mentioned all summer was €65m.

Nope it was always €75m that Ajax wanted. Same as De Jong's fee to Barca.

Cookiemunster

ERG89 wrote: »

Nope it was always €75m that Ajax wanted. Same as De Jong's fee to Barca.

Even if that's correct it doesn't change my initial point that Juve didn't get him for €75m because they're Juve. That was his price no matter which club he joined.

NIMAN

I would say that could be the best value signing of the summer, plus Juve are paying it in installments across 5 summers.

LuckyLloyd

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Even if that's correct it doesn't change my initial point that Juve didn't get him for €75m because they're Juve. That was his price no matter which club he joined.

They didn’t have to pay more, it doesn’t seem as if they’ve had to offer outlandish wages and they’re paying the fee gradually in instalments. All the benefits of being a giant club with a real European legacy

Liam O

Yeah, Juve paid €100m for a 33 year old last year. Do we need to get into Higuain too?

Baggly

Mino Raiola is walking into a bank somewhere in Italy with a very very very large cheque.

Adamcp898

It has to be pointed out he's now the 2/3rd most expensive CB ever

LuckyLloyd

Liam O wrote: »

Yeah, Juve paid €100m for a 33 year old last year. Do we need to get into Higuain too?

I’m not sure how the goat moving from Real to Juve hurts my argument here, but okay!

Lucas Hood

Adamcp898 wrote: »

It has to be pointed out he's now the 2/3rd most expensive CB ever

Transfer markt are saying he's most expensive.

€85.5m

Adamcp898

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Transfer markt are saying he's most expensive.

€85.5m

Most commonly reported fee appears to be £67/68 million?

Lucas Hood

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Most commonly reported fee appears to be £67/68 million?

I think they are included the add-ons already.

davemckenna25

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I think they are included the add-ons already.

They aren't allowed to do that.. You only Inc the add ons when talking about Man Utd signings....

rob316

Adamcp898 wrote: »

It has to be pointed out he's now the 2/3rd most expensive CB ever

For the level his is at for 19 years of age and a dearth of defensive talent, its a bargain. They could have him for 10 years or sell him in 5 years for huge money.

RugbyLover123

Heard on the Sky’s Sports podcast he has a 120m but out clause after 3 years. You’d imagine Riola will be pushing for another big pay day then to Madrid/Barca when De Ligt will be 23/24 with 3 Serie A titles in his pocket and only coming into his peak.

rob316

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Heard on the Sky’s Sports podcast he has a 120m but out clause after 3 years. You’d imagine Riola will be pushing for another big pay day then to Madrid/Barca when De Ligt will be 23/24 with 3 Serie A titles in his pocket and only coming into his peak.

Raiola is no fool that's exactly his plan, 120m buy out clause is well reachable for the biggest clubs. If that was the personal terms you can probably see why Barca and others left it be.

klose

Atletico with their 8th signing of the window today, hermoso from espanyol. They are having some overhaul this summer.

Dickerty

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The fee being mentioned all summer was €65m, so Juventus didn't get him any cheaper than anyone else would have seeing as they ended up paying €75m.

Saying that, Rabiot, Ramsey and De Ligt for €75m. Not a bad summer for Juve.

But the wage cost, adding Buffon as well, will be over €1M a week, so about another 150M over the next 3 seasons...

Comic Book Guy

Sky Germany reporting that Barca have bid 90m for Neymar plus a choice of 2 players out of coutinho rakitic dembele malcom umtiti and semedo.

I'd be dubious enough of it given the likelihood of Barca just saying here have your pick from this bunch.

HalloweenJack

I honestly have no idea why Barca are going for him. He's not the player he was two years ago and he seems to carry even more baggage these days, not to mention how top heavy they already are.

At this stage, I have a sneaking suspicion they are pushing for the deal just to have him rot on the bench as payback for leaving them in the first place.

Mr.Nice Guy

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I honestly have no idea why Barca are going for him. He's not the player he was two years ago and he seems to carry even more baggage these days, not to mention how top heavy they already are.

At this stage, I have a sneaking suspicion they are pushing for the deal just to have him rot on the bench as payback for leaving them in the first place.

Not sure why you think this. I wouldn't agree at all. Neymar's an outstanding player and easily top 5 talent in world football for me. His performances last season were of very high quality whenever I saw him. The big disappointment really was that he got injured for PSG two years in a row in the big Champions League knockout games when they needed him most. There will always be a question of 'what might have been' had he been there. He showed against Liverpool in Paris that he is a massive difference maker.

rob316

That's a crazy offer they don't even need him like they just signed Antoine griezmann. If they took 90m, coutinho and dembele, that would value neymar at over 300m?
Why don't they just sell coutinho and dembele for cash and go to PSG with over 200m straight offer.

Lucas Hood

rob316 wrote: »

That's a crazy offer they don't even need him like they just signed Antoine griezmann. If they took 90m, coutinho and dembele, that would value neymar at over 300m?
Why don't they just sell coutinho and dembele for cash and go to PSG with over 200m straight offer.

There's talk they want to play Griezmann as a midfielder.

Agent Coulson

PSG would be mental not to except €90m, Coutinho & Dembele.

rob316

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Not sure why you think this. I wouldn't agree at all. Neymar's an outstanding player and easily top 5 talent in world football for me. His performances last season were of very high quality whenever I saw him. The big disappointment really was that he got injured for PSG two years in a row in the big Champions League knockout games when they needed him most. There will always be a question of 'what might have been' had he been there. He showed against Liverpool in Paris that he is a massive difference maker.

Bad attitude on and off the field. So overrated, would hate to see him at Liverpool not that it would happen.

Mr.Nice Guy

rob316 wrote: »

Bad attitude on and off the field. So overrated, would hate to see him at Liverpool not that it would happen.

His attitude is no worse than that of Luis Suarez who was adored at Anfield.

~Rebel~

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

His attitude is no worse than that of Luis Suarez who was adored at Anfield.

I've never heard Suarez being described as lazy and uninterested in training, which have been the claims about Neymar. Diego Torres has written plenty about his behaviour over the past 2 years, and how his professionalism has regressed massively from how he used to be at Barca, along with his constant partying with a bloated entourage.

Not great, when you add in that his ankle really doesn't look like it's ever going to be right again either. Missed key chunks of the past 2 seasons with it, and then after a brief return to action, had yet another relapse and missed the whole Copa America when the ligaments popped again.

He is a genuinely excellent player when he's fit and healthy and interested, but for the outlay being reported, it just sounds a massive risk.

Mr.Nice Guy

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I've never heard Suarez being described as lazy and uninterested in training, which have been the claims about Neymar. Diego Torres has written plenty about his behaviour over the past 2 years, and how his professionalism has regressed massively from how he used to be at Barca, along with his constant partying with a bloated entourage.

Not great, when you add in that his ankle really doesn't look like it's ever going to be right again either. Missed key chunks of the past 2 seasons with it, and then after a brief return to action, had yet another relapse and missed the whole Copa America when the ligaments popped again.

He is a genuinely excellent player when he's fit and healthy and interested, but for the outlay being reported, it just sounds a massive risk.

I don't personally buy the rumours about his attitude in training because I recall Rabiot and Mbappe being late for training at one point and Neymar came out and said the coach needed to be given more respect. I got the sense he thought Tuchel wasn't up to the task of controlling the personalities in the dressing room.

And let's not forget the baggage Suarez had when he originally went to Barca. He had racially abused a fellow pro, bitten a fellow pro, flipped off opposition fans, angled for a move to a rival team etc. What's the worse attitude of the two in that light? I remember when Barca signed Suarez a lot wondered if it would backfire due to his history. I think he was serving some sort of ban at the time he went? Yet in the end it worked out a treat.

With regards his ankles it's worth pointing out that Ligue 1 teams were hacking him regularly, often as he had a tendency to take the mick and showboat which didn't go down well. I think in Spain and in Europe generally he'll get given better protection.

For me personally there's only two players in world football I'd take over him and I think most know the two I mean. Having said all that, PSG getting Coutinho and Dembele gives them a nice front three so it's not a bad outcome from their point of view.

justshane

Liam O wrote: »

Yeah, Juve paid €100m for a 33 year old last year. Do we need to get into Higuain too?

Not just any 33 yr old though, Ronaldo. One of the best players ever to kick a ball and has the physic of someone younger and still banged in a hat rick against one of the best defence in Europe in the champions league knock out stages.

~Rebel~

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I don't personally buy the rumours about his attitude in training because I recall Rabiot and Mbappe being late for training at one point and Neymar came out and said the coach needed to be given more respect. I got the sense he thought Tuchel wasn't up to the task of controlling the personalities in the dressing room.

And let's not forget the baggage Suarez had when he originally went to Barca. He had racially abused a fellow pro, bitten a fellow pro, flipped off opposition fans, angled for a move to a rival team etc. What's the worse attitude of the two in that light? I remember when Barca signed Suarez a lot wondered if it would backfire due to his history. I think he was serving some sort of ban at the time he went? Yet in the end it worked out a treat.

With regards his ankles it's worth pointing out that Ligue 1 teams were hacking him regularly, often as he had a tendency to take the mick and showboat which didn't go down well. I think in Spain and in Europe generally he'll get given better protection.

For me personally there's only two players in world football I'd take over him and I think most know the two I mean. Having said all that, PSG getting Coutinho and Dembele gives them a nice front three so it's not a bad outcome from their point of view.

I mean, you say you simply don't believe the reports about him and his behaviour and lack of professionalism, while I think there probably is some truth to them - there's simply too many reports about his behavior, too extensively written, for it not to have some weight. That's the biggest issue.

All the other stuff (and for Suarez insanity, you can add in Neymar too, currently banned from both the league for punching a fan, and the champions league for berating officials, not to mention his current rape allegation) takes a bit of a back seat against the question of "will they work for the team", and "will they stay fit".

At best, there are question marks over the former (and you can add in that he's been "unavailable" for his sisters birthday for 5 consecutive seasons at this point too - the same sister tattoed on his arm), and for the latter his ankle is showing no signs of ever being properly fixed after ruining consecutive seasons, and ruling him out of the Copa America entirely.

As brilliant as he can be when he's interested, he just comes with so much baggage and fitness issues that I wouldn't want him near my club.

rob316

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

His attitude is no worse than that of Luis Suarez who was adored at Anfield.

Suarez? Probably the most competitive and hardest working player I've seen. He's a lunatic on the pitch but he literally gave everything for the shirt. A pure will to win he has whatever he does.
Pretty weak comparing him to a prima Donna like Neymar.

ERG89

rob316 wrote: »

Suarez? Probably the most competitive and hardest working player I've seen. He's a lunatic on the pitch but he literally gave everything for the shirt. A pure will to win he has whatever he does.
Pretty weak comparing him to a prima Donna like Neymar.

Didnt Suarez go years without getting injured or am I mistaking him for someone else??

Neymar was a great player at Barca but he may have gone to the partying Brazilian path earlier than Ronaldo & Ronaldinho did. He missed key parts of the season at PSG, made a fabulous meme there on the touchline & when he was at the World Cup last year he just fell over every 5 minutes. He's picked up suspensions for this season coming in the league & Champions League.


If it were possible for PSG to have kept his receipt to return him I have no hesitation saying that they'd have him back first thing in the morning. Mbappe is who most teams want now at PSG not a lad who may come good or may just as easy get injured again when you need him.


Barca's squad looks like a total mess if he goes there in a swap for a few lads. They'll have the most expensive attack ever & have Busquets who's legs are as good as gone anchoring midfield while De Jong runs for 5 others who won't.

AdamD

Neymar has been a bit injury prone in the last couple of seasons but the rest is just noise. When hes been on the pitch hes been easily in the top 3 players in the world.

~Rebel~

AdamD wrote: »

Neymar has been a bit injury prone in the last couple of seasons but the rest is just noise. When hes been on the pitch hes been easily in the top 3 players in the world.

He's definitely very good, but it's hard to say something as lofty as top 3 in the world, when he's only playing in a handful of competitive games a year... like, how many properly competitive matches did he play last year? All I can think of is 2 against Liverpool, and 2 against Napoli. 4 games for the year. And he did alright, with a goal and an assist in total from those 4 games, but its hard to call someone top 3 in the world based on that much. Especially when you have Mbappe tearing things up in the very same team, and scoring even more goals-per-game (MBappe's record is better than a goal a game!) in the same poor league. And then compare their international performances... Neymar didn't exactly light up the world cup with great performances, while MBappe very much did.

I just have to think, if I'm spending mega-money on a PSG player, it won't be Neymar - it'll be MBappe every day of the week! Stays fit for the season, scores more goals, doesn't get into trouble, and is significantly younger.

D14Rugby

If i was a manager I wouldn't take neymar for no matter how cheap he was, the personification of a lot of what's wrong with the modern footballer.

Agent Coulson

PSG could probably get de Gea or Pogba they have been linked to both for that €90m along with Coutinho & Dembele.

People who have spent years partying as is reported about Neymar, then to fizzle out before their 30s then ones who don't

I'm not saying it will happen but its certainly a risk, and a big risk for such a high value transfer.

Adamcp898

I would say I can’t wait for the football start........but sure it’ll only get worse then

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

PSG could probably get de Gea or Pogba they have been linked to both for that €90m along with Coutinho & Dembele.

Anyone singing Degea or planning to has him well tapped up at this stage.

He won't move this window imo as no club really needs him urgently, he will take united to the cleaners or leave on a free next year, either way his agent knows his worth and will get it from someone.

Mr.Nice Guy

rob316 wrote: »

Suarez? Probably the most competitive and hardest working player I've seen. He's a lunatic on the pitch but he literally gave everything for the shirt. A pure will to win he has whatever he does.
Pretty weak comparing him to a prima Donna like Neymar.

Someone doesn't share your view.

"I was privileged to fulfil one of the best years of my life as a football player at Barcelona next to the best in the world Messi, and the second-best in the world, Neymar.

"Who would not want to enjoy players like Ney?"

- Luis Suarez.

ERG89 wrote:

Neymar was a great player at Barca but he may have gone to the partying Brazilian path earlier than Ronaldo & Ronaldinho did. He missed key parts of the season at PSG, made a fabulous meme there on the touchline & when he was at the World Cup last year he just fell over every 5 minutes. He's picked up suspensions for this season coming in the league & Champions League.

If it were possible for PSG to have kept his receipt to return him I have no hesitation saying that they'd have him back first thing in the morning. Mbappe is who most teams want now at PSG not a lad who may come good or may just as easy get injured again when you need him.

He missed key parts of the season at PSG because he was injured. When he played he was outstanding. Not sure how being made into a meme over him being shocked at the award of a very fortunate pen is a slight against him either. And he did well at the World Cup. For "fell over every 5 minutes" read "was hacked down every 5 minutes."

Neymar outshone Mbappe every time they were on the field together. Not hard to see why. He's a better player.

Will be gas in a month's time when Neymar is dazzling opposition defences and we'll be reading posts saying "Neymar has recdisovered his mojo." In truth he's never lost it.

~Rebel~

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Someone doesn't share your view.

"I was privileged to fulfil one of the best years of my life as a football player at Barcelona next to the best in the world Messi, and the second-best in the world, Neymar.

"Who would not want to enjoy players like Ney?"

- Luis Suarez.



He missed key parts of the season at PSG because he was injured. When he played he was outstanding. Not sure how being made into a meme over him being shocked at the award of a very fortunate pen is a slight against him either. And he did well at the World Cup. For "fell over every 5 minutes" read "was hacked down every 5 minutes."

Neymar outshone Mbappe every time they were on the field together. Not hard to see why. He's a better player.

Will be gas in a month's time when Neymar is dazzling opposition defences and we'll be reading posts saying "Neymar has recdisovered his mojo." In truth he's never lost it.

On teh bolded part - I don't think anyone had a problem with his behaviour at Barca - everything has stated that his professionalism dropped off a cliff after leaving.

Neymar and Mbappe are much of a muchness talent level for me right now - both are terrific - with Mbappe having an awful lot more upside, and Neymar having an awful lot more downside. I'm not sure where your mojo comment is coming from - we all know he's a very good player.

No-one is saying he's bad or anything, just that he comes with a lot of negatives outside his inherent ability, especially a serious serious recurring ankle problem that has cut his past 2 seasons in half, and kept him out of the Copa America only just last month.

You seem to be minimizing his fitness issues quite a bit - he's been fit to play less than half of PSG's games since he joined them. That's not a great return for such massive wages, and such a massive outlay. Especially when they bought him entirely to bolster their chances of winning a champions league. The number of champions league knock-out games he's been fit to play since he joined them? One.

If in the morning I heard that Liverpool were somehow putting together some massive super-money deal for M'Bappe, I'd be very excited. If I heard the same thing about Neymar, I'd be very anxious.

pjohnson

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

And he did well at the World Cup. For "fell over every 5 minutes" read "was hacked down every 5 minutes."

Neymar outshone Mbappe every time they were on the field together. Not hard to see why. He's a better player.

These bolded parts are bizarre.

Mr.Nice Guy

~Rebel~ wrote: »

On teh bolded part - I don't think anyone had a problem with his behaviour at Barca - everything has stated that his professionalism dropped off a cliff after leaving.

Neymar and Mbappe are much of a muchness talent level for me right now - both are terrific - with Mbappe having an awful lot more upside, and Neymar having an awful lot more downside. I'm not sure where your mojo comment is coming from - we all know he's a very good player.

No-one is saying he's bad or anything, just that he comes with a lot of negatives outside his inherent ability, especially a serious serious recurring ankle problem that has cut his past 2 seasons in half, and kept him out of the Copa America only just last month.

You seem to be minimizing his fitness issues quite a bit - he's been fit to play less than half of PSG's games since he joined them. That's not a great return for such massive wages, and such a massive outlay. Especially when they bought him entirely to bolster their chances of winning a champions league. The number of champions league knock-out games he's been fit to play since he joined them? One.

If in the morning I heard that Liverpool were somehow putting together some massive super-money deal for M'Bappe, I'd be very excited. If I heard the same thing about Neymar, I'd be very anxious.

One poster said he was overrated and another said he's not the player he was two years ago, so there is questioning of his ability going on. I think a lot of people tend to let personal dislike of him cloud their judgement of his ability. It reminds me of Dunphy on Ronaldo circa 2006.

I'm not concerned about his injury record, admittedly. I don't think there's an issue there beyond unforunate timing.

pjohnson wrote:

These bolded parts are bizarre.

~Rebel~

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'm not concerned about his injury record, admittedly. I don't think there's an issue there beyond unfortunate timing.

Fair enough, that's a fairly fundamental difference of opinion on our judgements of the player really so. I'd not particularly want him over other players anyway, I watch football for pleasure, and I hate watching him, but objectively I can totally agree that he improves any team if he's fit.

But of course my own take on the past 2 years is that he might not spend all that much time fully fit. Recurring injuries in delicate areas are bad news. Especially ankles. And especially ankles on nippy, twisty-turny players. The severity of the weight and pressure of a whole body's momentum all getting forced down on that dense little collection of muscles and bones and tendons is no joke. Speaking from experience sadly.

I'd need to see him play at least 3/4's of a season without breaking down again before i'd put much faith in his longevity.

(For transparency, subjectively, I don't like the guy, and I particularly don't like his Dad who is very much part of the package - or indeed, the main part of the package)

JPA

Neymar screwed Barcelona in a way rarely seen
It's unbelievable they would take him back.

~Rebel~

I have to admit though, I did find it absolutely hilarious when he was being interviewed the other day, and said his proudest moment as a player was destroying PSG with Barca. Have to give some credit for leaning into the shithouse/heel character.

charolais0153

JPA wrote: »

Neymar screwed Barcelona in a way rarely seen
It's unbelievable they would take him back.

He down what he thought was right, tried to get out of messis shadow, migjtnt have worked out as he intended but no one else could pay the money

~Rebel~

charolais0153 wrote: »

He down what he thought was right, tried to get out of messis shadow, migjtnt have worked out as he intended but no one else could pay the money

I don't buy that for a second. It was definitely a money-first move, driven more by his Dad than anything. If you want to get out from Messi's shadow and give yourself a shot at a Ballon'D'or (which is a shit enough motivation in a team sport), then fine, but don't go to a 3rd rate league in that case. Especially comical to step from Messi's shadow into Mbappe's shadow, who is the one getting all the individual-awards attention instead.

Mbappe's season last year also shone a light on how next-to-impossible it would be to win a Ballon D'or while playing in France - 33 goals in 24 starts and 5 sub appearances in the league, 4 goals in 6 World Cup matches, winning the world cup, and scoring in the final. And still wasn't really in the conversation for it - didn't even make the top 3 cut. Got less than half the points of the winner. It means you have to score in insane numbers, and win just about every single trophy available to stand any sort of a chance.

martyos121

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I don't buy that for a second. It was definitely a money-first move, driven more by his Dad than anything. If you want to get out from Messi's shadow and give yourself a shot at a Ballon'D'or (which is a shit enough motivation in a team sport), then fine, but don't go to a 3rd rate league in that case. Especially comical to step from Messi's shadow into MBappe's shadow, who is the one getting all the individual-awards attention instead.

Plus, I would’ve thought the best way to get out from Messi’s shadow would be to stay in the same team as him and outperform him. If he was ever going to show the world that he’s better than Messi (it’s impossible though, he’s simply not as good), it would be to steal his thunder at Barcelona where he has all the tools to make it happen.