Small extension, no cert of compliance

fago

Current house, had a small utility + boiler house at back as part of original house.
8 years ago we did works to extend this by ~10sqm and break the boiler house into the extension.
The extension and renovation were completed to very high spec (40K) and I took on a very reputable builder, checked previous similar jobs etc. No issues since structural or otherwise.

At the time we had no plans to move but times have changed. (Cash) purchaser is looking for certificate that extension complied with building regs, which we can't get as it wasn't supervised.
There are no issues (structural or visual) with the extension and its better finished than the rest of the house.

Obviously my own fault where we've ended up, but any real world experience on what happens here. Will purchase ever proceed in this case. Would bank allow a draw down on a property in this situation. Perhaps we are the only people in this scenario but I imagine its somewhat common or have works tightened up that much.

Should we just accept it will never sell, and we rent it out instead. I'd prefer not to, but if its our only option, then so be it.

Doop

You need to get in touch with a Chartered Building Surveyor / firm, and discuss it with them.

The best I think you could hope for is a 'part service SCSI cert of compliance' worst case I would imagine is some small destructive investigative works.

Its hard to advise further without knowing the scale of the works carried out.

I would imagine the above cert would suffice to placate the buyer. But no you are definitely not the only person to find themselves in this situation and houses still get sold!

Gumbo

Talk to an Engineer, Building Surveyor or similar.

They should be able to issue an opinion on compliance based on a visual inspection.
It will need to be certified from Planning Regulations and Building Regulations point of view.

It will offer no guarantee to the buyer nor will it offer no warranty, its a pure paper work exercise to get a house sold.

Askthe EA

fago wrote: »

C

purchaser is looking for certificate that extension complied with building regs, which we can't get as it wasn't supervised.
.

Why is he looking for that, its not possible (well, realistic) to get it retrospectively? Are you sure hes not looking for a certificate of exemption? The two are often confused.

Dolbhad

It is reasonable to look for a cert of exemption. If you didn’t get it at the time you can instruct an engineer to issue you one based on visual inspection. Now he’s a cash buyer so he makes his own decisions you can say no. However banks seem to have gotten very strict on this (whereas I think before once purchasers engineer said it was exempt it was fine) and insist on cert of exemption. So it looks like you’d have to get one issued anyway. As my solicitor told me “the day you buy is the day you sell”. If cash buyer sells that on in future he’ll need to have that cert anyway and he won’t want to incur the expense of cert for extension you build.

There should be no issue getting the cert, you just incur a cost is all. It’s probably a cert of exempt from planning permission but complied with building regulation. I’m not an engineer but my understanding is just because a property is exempt from planning doesn’t mean it’s except from building regs if the extension was built when building regs were in force - which would be the case 8 years ago

Gumbo

Askthe EA wrote: »

Why is he looking for that, its not possible (well, realistic) to get it retrospectively? Are you sure hes not looking for a certificate of exemption? The two are often confused.

You cannot get a Cert of Exemption from the Building Regulations, if the works should have complied with the Regulations in the first place.

tommythecat

kceire wrote: »

You cannot get a Cert of Exemption from the Building Regulations, if the works should have complied with the Regulations in the first place.

A Certificate of Exemption is often required when a property has received a material changes since it was first constructed. This could be in the form of a rear kitchen extension, the addition of a sunroom or conservatories or even the installation of Velux windows.

A Certificate of Exemption will declare that such material changes to the property are in fact exempt from requiring planning permission. Some small development can be declared exempt as per current planning legislation.

C3PO

My understanding is that it is now common practice for purchasers to seek certification of compliance to building regs for extensions even if they did not require planning permission. Building Regs and Planning Permission are two completely separate issues.

Askthe EA

kceire wrote: »

You cannot get a Cert of Exemption from the Building Regulations, if the works should have complied with the Regulations in the first place.

I know, i meant that i wondered is it a cert of exemp from planning they require as thats common.

dont bother

fago wrote: »

Current house, had a small utility + boiler house at back as part of original house.
8 years ago we did works to extend this by ~10sqm and break the boiler house into the extension.
The extension and renovation were completed to very high spec (40K) and I took on a very reputable builder, checked previous similar jobs etc. No issues since structural or otherwise.

At the time we had no plans to move but times have changed. (Cash) purchaser is looking for certificate that extension complied with building regs, which we can't get as it wasn't supervised.
There are no issues (structural or visual) with the extension and its better finished than the rest of the house.

Obviously my own fault where we've ended up, but any real world experience on what happens here. Will purchase ever proceed in this case. Would bank allow a draw down on a property in this situation. Perhaps we are the only people in this scenario but I imagine its somewhat common or have works tightened up that much.

Should we just accept it will never sell, and we rent it out instead. I'd prefer not to, but if its our only option, then so be it.

Phone your local Council's planning department and ask to be put through to "building Control" - they can issue this for you upon an inspection of the extension. if it's in good knick, then there'll be no problem in getting it.

dont bother with the other route of surveyors - it's extra cost and is only a "middle man" in this scenario.

just go to Building Control of your local council and ask them about it. they are your best bet. it'll be sorted within a matter of weeks you will have it.

Doop

dont bother wrote: »

Phone your local Council's planning department and ask to be put through to "building Control" - they can issue this for you upon an inspection of the extension. if it's in good knick, then there'll be no problem in getting it.

dont bother with the other route of surveyors - it's extra cost and is only a "middle man" in this scenario.

just go to Building Control of your local council and ask them about it. they are your best bet. it'll be sorted within a matter of weeks you will have it.

I would sure like to hear the result of that phone call...

fago

C3PO wrote: »

My understanding is that it is now common practice for purchasers to seek certification of compliance to building regs for extensions even if they did not require planning permission. Building Regs and Planning Permission are two completely separate issues.

This is correct. Our buyer looking for both
- planning exemption cert. This will not be an issue, just takes time
- compliance with building regs. Since the works weren't supervised, trying to find an engineer who will even issue an opinion on regs is difficult, it seems. First 2 I tried flat our refused, citing insurance issues. Onto my 3rd now, who knows the builder from previous projects and is willing to review and document a building regs opinion

Thanks for the general info anyway.

Alkers

fago wrote:

This is correct. Our buyer looking for both - planning exemption cert. This is not be an issue, just takes time - compliance with building regs. Since the works weren't supervised, trying to find an engineer who will even issue an opinion on regs is difficult, it seems. First 2 I tried flat our refused, citing insurance issues. Onto my 3rd now.

Where are you based? We had to do this when buying, we (as buyers) employed the engineer to do a survey which involved opening up.
If you're stuck for a name I can put you in touch.

C3PO

Simona1986 wrote:

Where are you based? We had to do this when buying, we (as buyers) employed the engineer to do a survey which involved opening up.
If you're stuck for a name I can put you in touch.

I could be wrong but I would be surprised if your surveyor gave you anything other a "condition" report? It would be very unusual for the purchasers surveyor to give an opinion on compliance with building regs.

Alkers

C3PO wrote:

I could be wrong but I would be surprised if your surveyor gave you anything other a "condition" report? It would be very unusual for the purchasers surveyor to give an opinion on compliance with building regs.

This wasn't s surveyor, it was a structural engineer employed by us subsequent to the survey

Gumbo

tommythecat wrote: »

A Certificate of Exemption is often required when a property has received a material changes since it was first constructed. This could be in the form of a rear kitchen extension, the addition of a sunroom or conservatories or even the installation of Velux windows.

A Certificate of Exemption will declare that such material changes to the property are in fact exempt from requiring planning permission. Some small development can be declared exempt as per current planning legislation.

Please read the posts correctly. I've issued enough retrospective certificates in my time to understand the relevant legislation

Planning and Development Act V Building Control Act....two totally separate pieces of legislation.

The question I responded to was in regards to Building Regulations exemption, to which there are no exemption certificates available unless it was constructed during Building Bye Law days, then a Bye Law Approval cert can be obtained from the Local Authority for a small cost.

Gumbo

dont bother wrote: »

Phone your local Council's planning department and ask to be put through to "building Control" - they can issue this for you upon an inspection of the extension. if it's in good knick, then there'll be no problem in getting it.

dont bother with the other route of surveyors - it's extra cost and is only a "middle man" in this scenario.

just go to Building Control of your local council and ask them about it. they are your best bet. it'll be sorted within a matter of weeks you will have it.

Sorry, you are 100% incorrect.
Building Control will not issue any form of certificate with regards to this.

Doop wrote: »

I would sure like to hear the result of that phone call...

Me too.

Dolbhad

kceire wrote: »

Please read the posts correctly. I've issued enough retrospective certificates in my time to understand the relevant legislation

Planning and Development Act V Building Control Act....two totally separate pieces of legislation.

The question I responded to was in regards to Building Regulations exemption, to which there are no exemption certificates available unless it was constructed during Building Bye Law days, then a Bye Law Approval cert can be obtained from the Local Authority for a small cost.

This is my understanding. You can be exempt from planning under certain. The building control act 1990 came into force then so you need compliance with building regulations with any build since then. You just need to comply with the building regulations that were in affect at the time the property was built. And previous to 1990 can come down to bye laws depending on where you are (or whether you can comply with the amnesty that was provided for during certain dates).

I think any purchaser and their engineer and solicitor will take a cert of compliance based on visual inspection.

Gumbo

Dolbhad wrote: »

This is my understanding. You can be exempt from planning under certain. The building control act 1990 came into force then so you need compliance with building regulations with any build since then. You just need to comply with the building regulations that were in affect at the time the property was built. And previous to 1990 can come down to bye laws depending on where you are (or whether you can comply with the amnesty that was provided for during certain dates).

I think any purchaser and their engineer and solicitor will take a cert of compliance based on visual inspection.

Exactly. Visual inspection with so many caveats that it’s worth more in paper and ink than anything else, but, it’s enough to get through the conveyance and allow a sale to go through.

fago

To close this one. Just got contracts back and deposit paid this week.

Planning exemption cert was straightforward as expected any engineer will do for a fee.

Cert/opinion on compliance to building regs harder. Only managed to get this through a contact who looked at the extension as a favour. Given it was up for 6 years no cracks etc he was happy to certify. 2 other companies refused due to insurance.
Lesson learned make sure you have an engineer!

Alkers

fago wrote:

Cert/opinion on compliance to building regs harder. Only managed to get this through a contact who looked at the extension as a favour. Given it was up for 6 years no cracks etc he was happy to certify. 2 other companies refused due to insurance. Lesson learned make sure you have an engineer!

Did he do this without opening anything up?

Gumbo

Simona1986 wrote: »

Did he do this without opening anything up?

Most likely. But it’s a visual opinion. It would provide no guarantee to any buyer or owner.

fago

kceire wrote: »

Most likely. But it’s a visual opinion. It would provide no guarantee to any buyer or owner.

Yes no opening up, so a paperwork exercise based on visual survey. But it being local he also knew the builder who had done the work "didn't mess around".

Alkers

kceire wrote:

Most likely. But it’s a visual opinion. It would provide no guarantee to any buyer or owner.

No, but doing so would surely be at some risk to the engineer?
As I mentioned previously, we were in a similar position, engineer advised he would not issue the cert. unless he opened up plasterboard etc to assess the structure beneath. Surely such a certificate is of more benefit than one issued without doing any such checks? In the OPs case he seemed to be able to call in a favour so that's not really the situation I'm thinking of.

riclad

Some extensions were built when the planning laws were different,
much were simpler ,you may be able to get a cert to say the extension did not require planning permission ,
its was compliant with building regulations at the time it was built .
I bought a house with an old extension on it,it was built
years before there were any rules regarding extensions
or the rules were very simple.