Teachers in Florida to be permitted to carry guns

ohnonotgmail

dodderangler wrote: »

That still isn’t comparing Ireland to the USA. They outnumber us by how many in general?
I’m still not comparing. I’m talking about criminals in general no matter where it is a criminal breaks the law

jeez, i'm not talking about absolute numbers. In per population numbers the US has massively more gun crime that we do. why do you think that is?

BattleCorp

steddyeddy wrote: »

the power of such weapons, which fire bullets that can penetrate a steel helmet from a distance of five hundred yards. When fired from close range at civilians who aren’t wearing body armor, the bullets from an AR-15 don’t merely penetrate the human body—they tear it apart.

Not trying to detract from the whole 'guns are bad in the hands of teachers M'kay' debate but the above quote is pretty sensationalist.

AR15s mostly come in two calibres, .223 and 5.56. Even though they have different numbers, they are the same sized round and are standard hunting rounds. Both bullets are the same size but the 5.56 shoots at a slightly higher pressure. The .223 is more common here in Ireland and the 5.56 is more common in the US. The .223 is used here in Ireland mostly for shooting foxes. The Irish authorities don't consider it a particularly powerful round. In fact they don't deem it strong enough to humanely kill deer and therefore it is not considered a deer-legal round.

Yes, I certainly wouldn't like to get shot with one of them, but they aren't the Armageddon of bullets like that article seems to be hinting at.

Just thought I'd add that useless bit of info.

Manic Moran

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

In per population numbers the US has massively more gun crime that we do. why do you think that is?

I submit that the real question is addressing "why is there more crime in the US" regardless of subset. It seems reasonable to suggest that the reduction in US crime levels will also reduce US gun crime levels.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that Ireland has the gang culture found in a number of US cities, for example.

BattleCorp

Manic Moran wrote: »

I submit that the real question is addressing "why is there more crime in the US" regardless of subset. It seems reasonable to suggest that the reduction in US crime levels will also reduce US gun crime levels.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that Ireland has the gang culture found in a number of US cities, for example.

Another issue is how quickly the typical American will resort to violence to solve a particular problem or to get even following an insult/perceived insult. Much much faster than a typical Irish person.

That was one of the real differences I saw when I lived over there. It seemed like the prevailing attitude was "Gotta stay hard in the yard" to use prison terminology. And that was in San Francisco, probably the softest part of the US.

TeaBagMania

BattleCorp wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

Just thought I'd add that useless bit of info.

Not useless at all, if they want to see power try a 30-06, it'll go thru multiple targets and is available in semi-auto form with the M1 Garand... a rifle from the 1930's

ohnonotgmail

Manic Moran wrote: »

I submit that the real question is addressing "why is there more crime in the US" regardless of subset. It seems reasonable to suggest that the reduction in US crime levels will also reduce US gun crime levels.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that Ireland has the gang culture found in a number of US cities, for example.

well yes the crime rate in general is higher but the percentage of gun related crimes is much higher. Here gun crime is an exception, in the states it is the norm. The question is is there a correlation between the availability of firearms and the level of gun related crime. the link posted earlier suggests there is. Criminals use the tools available to them. If guns are readily available then it is guns they will use. Despite this there is no interest in reducing the number of firearms available and that baffles me.

steddyeddy

BattleCorp wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

Not trying to detract from the whole 'guns are bad in the hands of teachers M'kay' debate but the above quote is pretty sensationalist.

AR15s mostly come in two calibres, .223 and 5.56. Even though they have different numbers, they are the same sized round and are standard hunting rounds. Both bullets are the same size but the 5.56 shoots at a slightly higher pressure. The .223 is more common here in Ireland and the 5.56 is more common in the US. The .223 is used here in Ireland mostly for shooting foxes. The Irish authorities don't consider it a particularly powerful round. In fact they don't deem it strong enough to humanely kill deer and therefore it is not considered a deer-legal round.

Yes, I certainly wouldn't like to get shot with one of them, but they aren't the Armageddon of bullets like that article seems to be hinting at.

Just thought I'd add that useless bit of info.

It's not useless at all. It's interesting. The debate needs to be precise if it has any value.

steddyeddy

BattleCorp wrote: »

Another issue is how quickly the typical American will resort to violence to solve a particular problem or to get even following an insult/perceived insult. Much much faster than a typical Irish person.

That was one of the real differences I saw when I lived over there. It seemed like the prevailing attitude was "Gotta stay hard in the yard" to use prison terminology. And that was in San Francisco, probably the softest part of the US.

I work in the Rockies in Colorado. Tough tough b£stards apart from the blow-ins from New York that is.

DEFTLEFTHAND

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's a sign of how mental that country is, that a question like that even get's asked!

I honestly think they are beyond help - the horse has not only bolted, it's bolted so far it's gone feral. They're fúcked up beyond any measure of rationality or sanity at this stage.

And yet the rest of the world is obsessed with the place.

From trying to settle there to copying every trend and fad. They're the dominant culture in the west.

dodderangler

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

jeez, i'm not talking about absolute numbers. In per population numbers the US has massively more gun crime that we do. why do you think that is?

Because they have more criminals. So “ jeez” do I have to hold your hand on this one?

Wibbs

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

And yet the rest of the world is obsessed with the place.

From trying to settle there to copying every trend and fad. They're the dominant culture in the west.

I suspect much of that is a holdover from the past, from what America was and was seen to be. As a kid in 1981 I went on holidays to the US and it was like another bigger shinier world with more promise compared to Ireland. One that was very appealing on a few levels, that promise that America always stood for. If I'd gone from Ireland in the 50's to the US it would have been another planet. These days that's not nearly so much in play as the world became more global and informed, whereas a large chunk of the American population became more local and ill informed. Many more in the West at least see more of the cracks and less of the shine and the feeling of a nation of promise.

ohnonotgmail

dodderangler wrote: »

Because they have more criminals. So “ jeez” do I have to hold your hand on this one?

I can only assume you are being dense for effect.