Teachers in Florida to be permitted to carry guns

Deebles McBeebles

dodderangler wrote: »

Oh yeah watch me go out and shoot everyone because some liberals on boards cried at me.
As I said look the stats up yourselves.

That's exactly the kind of ridiculous excuse people who go on killing spree's use. Not that you would but they certainly would and have.

Stats were already provided by another poster.

dodderangler

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

That's exactly the kind of ridiculous excuse people who go on killing spree's use. Not that you would but they certainly would and have.

Stats were already provided by another poster.

You’re a special kind of something ain’t ya ?

Deebles McBeebles

dodderangler wrote: »

You’re a special kind of something ain’t ya ?

Do you want to keep going.... go on, say what you really mean.

Another lad who can't handle people having a different opinion.

dodderangler

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Do you want to keep going.... go on, say what you really mean.

Another lad who can't handle people having a different opinion.

So I approve of guns in a teachers hand and you are the one to cry on it.
Trust me I would love to say what I feel about snowflakes like yourself but it’ll only end with me being banned. You know how protected you all are because you’ll only cry if youre not happy with someone giving you their two cents.

Deebles McBeebles

dodderangler wrote: »

So I approve of guns in a teachers hand and you are the one to cry on it.
Trust me I would love to say what I feel about snowflakes like yourself but it’ll only end with me being banned. You know how protected you all are because you’ll only cry if youre not happy with someone giving you their two cents.

Not sure I understand but grand, leave it there so.

BattleCorp

jmayo wrote: »

The fact you have virtually no control over what weapons anyone can get their hands on is the problem.

I'd agree with you here. Not everyone should have access to a gun.

I actually like military history and weapons and have had the pleasure of firing a few things, but I don't see why ordinary people should be tooled up to such an extent that it looks like they are off to fight in Afghanistan.

I have a little bit of a problem here. You had the pleasure of firing certain types of guns. You did it safely. Why then do you not want anyone else to fire those types of guns. Surely if a person is safe with one type of gun (one you consider safe), then they are safe with another type (one you consider to be military). Does the type of gun a person owns suddenly make them more likely to run amok with it?

I've this problem here in Ireland too. I'm allowed several guns. I'm considered safe. But I'm not allowed a centrefire handgun (even though I own more powerful guns than that). I don't get it. If I'm safe with other guns, why am I considered to be more of a danger to the public with a centrefire gun. Doesn't make sense to me.

Speaking of Florida, a number of years ago I was at the gun counter in a Wallmart in a midsize town in the centre of the state.
I and a couple of British guys stared in amazement at a guy that purchased what looked like 3 or 4 hundred rounds of ammo, various calibres.

One of the British guys was ex Royal Marine who commented that you would only be on long patrol/action with that amount of ammo.

You are very sheltered if you think 300 or 400 rounds is a lot. I'd shoot that in a day at the range (depending on the type of shooting I was doing). Most target shooters would buy at least 1000 rounds of centrefire ammo at a time (if they had the money). I usually buy 2000 at a time. Several smallbore shooters could buy 10,000 rounds at a time here in Ireland (again if they had the money, ammo is expensive).

I don't know if anyone has done research on this, but when did the US start turning towards weapons with big magazines ?
Was it the 70s or 80s ?

I would have thought that large capacity magazines were always a thing over there. The large casualty school shootings seem to be a recent enough phenomenon, maybe in the last 20 years.

Have you ever wondered how come other countries can have high amount of gun ownership, even actual military assault weapons in peoples homes and yet have nowhere near the sheer volume of shootings as in the US ?

Sorry if I'm insulting Americans here but it looks like it isn't the guns. It's the mental illness or the resorting to violence for every perceived slight/insult given.

BrokenArrows

Just waiting for the news headlines about a teacher who snaps and puts the gun to the head of the class clown.

steddyeddy

dodderangler wrote: »

It’s about time. Majority of these shootings happen in gun free zones. Look. The amount of shootings prevented by a citizen with open carry is pretty impressive. Plenty of videos on it aswell.
Highest gun crimes are always in these gun free zones.
As a gun owner myself I approve

To be honest I think it's pretty scary the amount of gun owners on here who are completely clueless regarding gun statistics. Hopefully Ireland doesn't develop the same gun obsession that America does.

JupiterKid

Utter and complete madness. The gun culture and love affair with guns in the States is a collective sickness, a deadly defect in its national character.

Only a matter of time before a stressed teacher goes postal and guns down their class.

BattleCorp

steddyeddy wrote: »

To be honest I think it's pretty scary the amount of gun owners on here who are completely clueless regarding gun statistics. Hopefully Ireland doesn't develop the same gun obsession that America does.

What statistics exactly?

You needn't worry, we will never have the same gun culture as the US.

Pyr0

JupiterKid wrote: »

Only a matter of time before a stressed teacher goes postal and guns down their class.

Arms the kids and it will be stopped!

BattleCorp

JupiterKid wrote: »

Only a matter of time before a stressed teacher goes postal and guns down their class.

There's a high likelihood that something like that will happen at some stage.

Noveight

Arming teachers to help the problem of school shootings honestly sounds like a joke from Airplane or similar.

steddyeddy

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'd agree with you here. Not everyone should have access to a gun.

You realise that puts you at odds with most NRA members I've met over here.

Sorry if I'm insulting Americans here but it looks like it isn't the guns. It's the mental illness or the resorting to violence for every perceived slight/insult given.

But as a scientist I can't accept your opinion over the actual facts. The studies here show that increased guns = increased gun crime. Here's some of the take away points:

In a 2015 study using data from the FBI and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, for example, researchers at Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard University reported that firearm assaults were 6.8 times more common in the states with the most guns versus those with the least.Also in 2015 a combined analysis of 15 different studies found that people who had access to firearms at home were nearly twice as likely to be murdered as people who did not.

So what does the research say? By far the most famous series of studies on this issue was conducted in the late 1980s and 1990s by Arthur Kellermann, now dean of the F. Edward Hébert School of Medicine at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, and his colleagues. In one, published in 1993 in the New England Journal of Medicine and funded by the CDC, he and his colleagues identified 444 people who had been killed between 1987 and 1992 at home in three U.S. regions—Shelby County, Tennessee, King County, Washington State, and Cuyahoga County, Ohio—and then collected details about them and their deaths from local police, medical examiners and people who had been close to the victims. They found that a gun in the home was associated with a nearly threefold increase in the odds that someone would be killed at home by a family member or intimate acquaintance.

BattleCorp

Noveight wrote: »

Arming teachers to help the problem of school shootings honestly sounds like a joke from Airplane or similar.

I'm not a fan of arming teachers but if you were in America, what solution would you have?

I'd be in favour of fencing off schools so that there are only two entrances and having metal detectors and armed guards at each entrance. Probably prohibitively expensive though. And maybe impracticable due to the size and layout of schools and colleges.

steddyeddy

BattleCorp wrote: »

What statistics exactly?

You needn't worry, we will never have the same gun culture as the US.

These BC, from my previous post detailing the biggest gun studies to date.

a combined analysis of 15 different studies found that people who had access to firearms at home were nearly twice as likely to be murdered as people who did not.

Billy86

Worth putting a pool together for how long it takes until a teacher shoots up their own classroom, or some students in it?

Because we all know it's a matter of when, not if.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

notobtuse wrote: »

Simple... most high school students aren't mature enough for the responsibility.

But that's an afornt to their rights and leaving them defenseless! What kind of heartless soul would send in innocent child into place full of guns - unarmed?!

Billy86

Noveight wrote: »

Arming teachers to help the problem of school shootings honestly sounds like a joke from Airplane or similar.

Its straight out of the Simpsons.

When the teachers start losing it and have a few shooting incidents, they can just arm the students for their own protection. And when students and teachers start shooting at each other too much, they can just drop a bomb on the school with everyone inside, and ensure no more shootings happen there again.

steddyeddy

Billy86 wrote: »

Worth putting a pool together for how long it takes until a teacher shoots up their own classroom, or some students in it?

Because we all know it's a matter of when, not if.

Statistically introducing weapons to an area will likely result in an increase in gun assaults by 680% according to studies. So we shouldn't be waiting long.

steddyeddy

dodderangler wrote: »

So I approve of guns in a teachers hand and you are the one to cry on it.
Trust me I would love to say what I feel about snowflakes like yourself but it’ll only end with me being banned. You know how protected you all are because you’ll only cry if youre not happy with someone giving you their two cents.

Tell me you don't actually own a weapon?

steddyeddy

Billy86 wrote: »

Its straight out of the Simpsons.

When the teachers start losing it and have a few shooting incidents, they can just arm the students for their own protection. And when students and teachers start shooting at each other too much, they can just drop a bomb on the school with everyone inside, and ensure no more shootings happen there again.

Let's say a mass shooting does happen. Will the teachers be under more pressure to act if they're armed? Will an armed teacher that runs to safety be labelled a coward?

RobertKK

When you have a gun problem, the solution is more guns...

Of course this is crazy.

RobertKK

steddyeddy wrote: »

Let's say a mass shooting does happen. Will the teachers be under more pressure to act if they're armed? Will an armed teacher that runs to safety be labelled a coward?

Some of the hired security have been known to hide away from the shooting when in progress.
It's just madness, there is no logic to this.

steddyeddy

RobertKK wrote: »

Some of the hired security have been known to hide away from the shooting when in progress.
It's just madness, there is no logic to this.

When I was in Colorado last time there was a mass shooting (surprising I know) where an armed security man ran from the attacker. He was labelled a coward and even mentioned by Trump who stated he would have run in himself. Are teachers now going to be under the same pressure?

steddyeddy

BattleCorp wrote: »

What statistics exactly?

You needn't worry, we will never have the same gun culture as the US.

I don't have a problem with Irish gun owners except the ones who were shooting endangered eagles a few years back.

steddyeddy

Studies also show that controlling the weapon of choice also matters. Assault rifle bans reduce deaths in school shootings by 54% it seems. So a good thing right?

The effects of state and Federal gun control laws on school shootings


School shootings are the highest profile type of murder in the United States. They are also the rarest type of murder. In 2014, there were only 17 firearm murders that were perpetrated in schools and colleges. The purpose of the present study is to determine the relationship between school shootings and state and Federal gun control laws. Using a Poisson, two-way fixed effects model, it was found that assault weapons bans reduced the number of school shooting victims by 54.4%.

BattleCorp

steddyeddy wrote: »

You realise that puts you at odds with most NRA members I've met over here.

I did a NRA Range Officer safety course once here in Ireland but I'm not or never have been a member of the NRA nor am I a 100% supporter of them. They do some good stuff, and they also do some really dumb stuff.

steddyeddy wrote: »

Statistically introducing weapons to an area will likely result in an increase in gun assaults by 680% according to studies. So we shouldn't be waiting long.

Ah, statistics. The discipline that proves that the average person has one testicle.

Seriously though, those stats are true for the areas studied in the US, but would they be representative of things in Europe, or in Ireland because we don't seem to have anywhere near the same problems as the US. And parts of the EU have pretty high firearms ownership.

I looked at one of those studies (Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home) and it stated that the use of illicit drugs and a history of physical fights in the home are important risk factors. This leads me back to a point I continually bring up that not everybody should have access to guns.

Billy86

steddyeddy wrote: »

Billy86 wrote: »

Its straight out of the Simpsons.

When the teachers start losing it and have a few shooting incidents, they can just arm the students for their own protection. And when students and teachers start shooting at each other too much, they can just drop a bomb on the school with everyone inside, and ensure no more shootings happen there again.

Let's say a mass shooting does happen. Will the teachers be under more pressure to act if they're armed? Will an armed teacher that runs to safety be labelled a coward?

I think pressure and reaction falls to the individual, but even if they react brilliantly! I can't see how good can come of it if there are dozens of panicking, sprinting, screaming students between them and the shooter. Especially in age groups where the students have had their growth spurt and may be taller than the teachers.

Even in that situation, it's extremely likely that the teacher would be unable to get a shot off because of this, and if they did they would be very likely to just add to the death toll of innocents.

Which is why just carpet bombing every school in the US first thing next Monday after the bell rings is the best solution for this line of thinking.

BattleCorp

steddyeddy wrote: »

Studies also show that controlling the weapon of choice also matters. Assault rifle bans reduce deaths in school shootings by 54% it seems. So a good thing right?

I'll call shenanigans on that study for one simple reason.

The definition of what is an assault rifle is fcuked up.

For example, California have banned certain models of AR15s (which some class as an assault rifle). Other models of AR15 aren't banned even though they do exactly the same job. They banned them by make rather than function. So a Bushmaster AR15 is banned but a Ruger Mini 14 isn't banned but it can do exactly the same job. Shoot up a school with the Bushmaster and you used an assault rifle. Shoot up a school with the Ruger Mini 14 and you didn't use an assault rifle.

Sh1t like that screws up those studies.