200 co-living homes proposed for Dún Laoghaire

bullpost

So a developer wants to build 200 co-living units in Dun Laoghaire:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0501/1046753-co-living-housing-application/

This seems ok until you read the detail and then it looks more like a developers attempt to cash in on the insane rental market in Ireland at the same time appearing to be "progressive".

In other countries this type of accommodation is primarily developed to provide homes which are affordable and are not built by commercial developers:

http://https://www.thejournal.ie/co-housing-3798698-Jan2018/

ted1

bullpost wrote: »

So a developer wants to build 200 co-living units in Dun Laoghaire:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0501/1046753-co-living-housing-application/

This seems ok until you read the detail and then it looks more like a developers attempt to cash in on the insane rental market in Ireland at the same time appearing to be "progressive".

In other countries this type of accommodation is primarily developed to provide homes which are affordable and are not built by commercial developers:

http://https://www.thejournal.ie/co-housing-3798698-Jan2018/

That particularly developer is renowned fir attempting to develop unwanted developments on South Dublin.

Numerous sites in Dalkey including Bullach harbour.

Hope they get refused

Dardania

I’m probably going to be disliked for saying this, but I don’t think these are a bad idea.

Some people value having disposable income, and being close to good facilities, more than many 10s of square metres. It sounds like people do have privacy in these bedsits, and they can use shared facilities if they want to talk to others. If it’s thoroughly built, with proper soundproofing, what’s the issue?
Many people might rather this than getting more space far further out from the city, where they’d effectively be dependant upon owning a car.

L1011

Something has to replace the bedsit stock that was removed - there are people who are incapable of living in traditional house shares for starters. Council policy since the 1960s has been to effectively ignore single applications for social housing so even if that was reversed it could take decades to sort the backlog.

The UK has "houses of multiple occupation" which are nowhere near the scale of this and possibly a better idea - large or multiple kitchens, lockable storage, lockable rooms, usually en suite or with their own dedicated/lockable bathroom. But they've been building those for 40 years.

Now, whether the natural demand is there for all of these that are planned is a different question. These shouldn't be seen as something to force people in to if the lifestyle is not for them.

ted1

Dardania wrote: »

I’m probably going to be disliked for saying this, but I don’t think these are a bad idea.

Some people value having disposable income, and being close to good facilities, more than many 10s of square metres. It sounds like people do have privacy in these bedsits, and they can use shared facilities if they want to talk to others. If it’s thoroughly built, with proper soundproofing, what’s the issue?
Many people might rather this than getting more space far further out from the city, where they’d effectively be dependant upon owning a car.

They’ve got pull down beds, I don’t think anyone over 12 aspires to living in a room with a pull down bed.

Tabnabs

Leases on the units will be from two to 12 months.

Sounds like it'll end up like something from a 70s New York movie about pimps and hustlers.

If it was aimed at third level students, then it would make sense, but it's hard to see it being an asset to the town.

bullpost

Dardania wrote: »

I’m probably going to be disliked for saying this, but I don’t think these are a bad idea.

Some people value having disposable income, and being close to good facilities, more than many 10s of square metres. It sounds like people do have privacy in these bedsits, and they can use shared facilities if they want to talk to others. If it’s thoroughly built, with proper soundproofing, what’s the issue?
Many people might rather this than getting more space far further out from the city, where they’d effectively be dependant upon owning a car.

I dont think they are a bad idea either. Its the motivation of this developer in introducing them thats the problem for me. Did you read my link to the way they get developed in other countries ?

Dardania

bullpost wrote: »

I dont think they are a bad idea either. Its the motivation of this developer in introducing them thats the problem for me. Did you read my link to the way they get developed in other countries ?

There aren’t many private developers in the property market for altruistic reasons!

I read that article when it came out - it’s a great plan but it’s targeted at a completely different cohort of people.
The housing group model is for long term ready to settle people / families at a stage in their life. And judging by the comment in the article about not competing with developers for high land acquisition costs, thes will be in the countryside somewhere.
Whereas the proposed co living hotel style is for predominantly younger people or single people who are transitioning, and rental can suit them. Also in a well serviced area without car dependency.
The only common ground is they’re prepared to and willing to share resources in order to reduce costs.

The more I think about this apart hotel idea, the more I think it can in fact free up houses and apartments for families. Which is a good thing. Similar to student housing. Or age assisted living for OAPs.

Larbre34

Its a proven concept.

The one thing that will return life to Dun Laoghaire is residents, or to be frank, younger residents. The cluster of different developments and redevelopments from the back of the Hospital down into Georges Place are a good start, but there is a huge potential for the town to embrace contemporary working and living practices and benefit from the squeeze on space and cost in the city centre.

If you look at the co-working and shared office locations springing up in the town and the Harbour Terminal which is now on the market from the Council to operate as a small business facility, thats where the future is, and this type of accommodation suits that style of life. From the point of view of a footloose millenial entrepreneur type, its ideal, right on the Dart, a very healthy and picturesque environment, suits non-drivers, shops, cafés, restaurants, leisure activities.

Theres always chat on here and other forums about the dying retail and nightlife in DL and while thats an undeniable reality, people who think the solution is to try to return it to how it was in its heyday by wishful thinking of some sort need to realise that the world and the City has moved on and solutions like this need to be part of a new way of doing things and creating a renewed vital community in DL

spuddy

All the info you could want about it right here.

http://bartraeblanashd.com/

4068ac1elhodqr

'Student halls for working people'.

Although if done well, may offer some solution. Plans are a foot for the world's largest co-living scheme from July '19.
This overtakes Europe's current largest (550rooms of the Collective Old Oak - from £832 for 91sqft).

The Collective in Canary Wharf will have 705 rooms in a 21-storey block.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/luxury-coliving-block-with-pool-bar-and-spa-planned-for-canary-wharf-a4130051.html

As it's for millennials, mental health workshops are included, and can pay with Bitcoin.
Bar, pool, sauna, gym, bband and (all) bills from 1,430pm (gbp) for the 'cosy' room size (not specified).

If you can easily buy investment shares in these projects, worth a punt.

Edgware

ted1 wrote: »

They’ve got pull down beds, I don’t think anyone over 12 aspires to living in a room with a pull down bed.

There are plenty unused telephone kiosks around. Why cant they show some initiative and convert them into bedrooms for people who like sleeping standing up?

Tabnabs

Some more detail and images of the proposed development.

http://www.ossiansmyth.ie/is-shared-living-good-for-dun-laoghaire/

.......

Larbre34 wrote: »

...the Harbour Terminal which is now on the market from the Council to operate as a small business facility...

Which for some reason they keep turning down applications for, it was planned to be a tech hub and that was eventually rejected, and todays news shows that they have turned down an animation studio plan for it which would have been brilliant for IADT students to get a leg up in the business in.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/d%C3%BAn-laoghaire-council-turns-down-hollywood-studio-plan-for-old-terminal-1.3882584

Dun Laoghaire is dying on its feet but Im not sure co-living units are the way forward here.

Larbre34

^ a comment worthy of the facebook keyboard warriors

Did you even read the thing? It was an incomplete application, if it was just accepted over other correct bids the same eejits would be calling for a corruption tribunal or some such! There'll be no decision taken until the new Council is elected either and thats only right too.

As for the previous venture, its well known now and this article even says it that the two investors "fell out", unfortunately the victim was the project.

.......

Larbre34 wrote: »

^ a comment worthy of the facebook keyboard warriors

A comment worthy of a muppet.

Larbre34 wrote: »

Did you even read the thing? It was an incomplete application, if it was just accepted over other correct bids the same eejits would be calling for a corruption tribunal or some such! There'll be no decision taken until the new Council is elected either and thats only right too.

Did YOU even read the thing. They invited expressions of interest and discounted this proposal as not within scope due to missing financial information - but also because it would require a change of planning permission - so its a no brainer - change the planning permission! Why keep it so narrow that good ideas are thrown out?

seasidedub

The problem with housing in Ireland is architects/developers never think outside the box - which in Ireland's case is literally a box, a square 3/4bed semi d.

In Europe loads of singles are happy to live in a well planned 20-25 m sq studio flat. If they have good storage and are well designed they are great. I've seen some amazing ones. I'm positive a single person over 27 or 30 who doesnt earn enough to buy a semi would far prefer this than a house share. But I mean a real studio - self contained with own kitchen. Many I've seen in apartment blocks in for example Helsinki are better designed and wirh more storage than a 2 bed here.

.

Anteayer

It's like we're going from one extreme to the other.
In most cities on the continent you can rent or buy very decent studio apartments, or even well proportioned 1 bedroom apartments with good facilities. In Ireland the focus has always been on suburban houses and there's a shortage of studios and similar accommodation.

So, now we've someone coming along with a proposal for what looks like some kind of semi-institutionalised sheltered housing for working adults with decent incomes and charging way, way over the odds for it.

Sorry, but if this is all I could afford in Dublin, I'd simply move somewhere else. It's an OK city but that kind of housing is an absolute nonsense as a serious proposal for long term living. I know they're only looking at 12 month leases, but you could easily see those ending up as end-to-end multi year stays.

I mean as an adult it's not unreasonable to have an expectation of some privacy, independence and space for a double bed!

It looks almost like the kind of thing you'd see proposed for work camps in China.

Do we even have a housing policy? I'm beginning to wonder.

Tabnabs

Anteayer wrote: »

Sorry, but if this is all I could afford in Dublin, I'd simply move somewhere else.

Thread drift, but that really is the message that people need to take onboard. I'd be gone in a flash if I wasn't already settled here.

bullpost

seasidedub wrote: »

The problem with housing in Ireland is architects/developers never think outside the box - which in Ireland's case is literally a box, a square 3/4bed semi d.

In Europe loads of singles are happy to live in a well planned 20-25 m sq studio flat. If they have good storage and are well designed they are great. I've seen some amazing ones. I'm positive a single person over 27 or 30 who doesnt earn enough to buy a semi would far prefer this than a house share. But I mean a real studio - self contained with own kitchen. Many I've seen in apartment blocks in for example Helsinki are better designed and wirh more storage than a 2 bed here.

.

This is not well planned though - except from the perspective of stuffing as many in as possible and then fleecing them.

€1300 a month to share a kitchen with 42 others :eek:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dickensian-communal-living-apartment-plan-criticised-as-42-tenants-share-one-kitchen-38094372.html

I'll pass.

4068ac1elhodqr

bullpost wrote: »

This is not well planned though - except from the perspective of stuffing as many in as possible and then fleecing them.

€1300 a month to share a kitchen with 42 others :eek:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dickensian-communal-living-apartment-plan-criticised-as-42-tenants-share-one-kitchen-38094372.html

I'll pass.

42:1 sound a very bad ratio.

These projects depend on their implimentation. If corners are cut at the final stages of design & build, or final offerings, it'll cost them significantly in the long run.

e.g. For around the same price, The Collective(Ldn) has 705 rooms (very low rate of kitchen share) with bar, pool, sauna, gym, bband and (all) bills included.

Reckon you could design a building (4* hotel spec), and make the same/better profit, due to occupancy rates far, far, in excess of many hotel chains of the world.

If the developers really wanted creamy profits beyond any hotel, then Jap cubicle hotels would be that offering, and could easily let by the very high hundreds or even thousand at peak times.

When traveling around the world years ago, stayed in various locations for $10pn that had their own tenniscourts/sauna/pool included. Others had high-spec underground cinemas, rooftop jacuzzis etc. Most had discount bars/nightclubs, drinks, pool tables, wifi and free breakfast, and occasional free bbqs.

Richard Hillman

€1300 a month, get out of town :pac:

It's like living in Hong Kong except we have **** loads of space

Dardania

bullpost wrote: »

This is not well planned though - except from the perspective of stuffing as many in as possible and then fleecing them.

€1300 a month to share a kitchen with 42 others :eek:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dickensian-communal-living-apartment-plan-criticised-as-42-tenants-share-one-kitchen-38094372.html

I'll pass.

What’s the source for that 1300 per month figure?

sentosa123

1300 per month for 16.5sqm and a pull-down bed and kitchenette sounds not right.

Edgware

There is a terrible lack of imagination in the provision of accommodation in Ireland.
There is a big demand for accommodation that would be suitable for the many different human relationships. Single persons, Separated parent who requires a property with a main bedroom and a second one when his/her children come on their access arrangement, widows/widowers. I dont think the co sharing is ideal though