Local Elections 2019

L1011

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

How are they still counting in Longford? 4 seats to play for in one area I heard there on radio? Something seriously wrong there if it goes to nearly 5 days counting a few thousand votes

That area started yesterday at 930 and is on a recount. So its bad but not THAT bad.

emo72

Deleted User wrote: »

if they have a vote and are still getting presenta off santy claus theyve been taking you for a ride a lot longer than since last Friday tbh

yes...yes... i know i jest. but still...with FGs housing policy they'll be with me for a very long time. actually i can see the next FG slogan now, "FG, KEEPING FAMILIES TOGETHER FOR LONGER!"

For Forks Sake

From Gavan Reilly, final LE seat totals
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1133486147915669504

Flies in the face of the media narrative hollering about it being a bad election for FG.
Absolute disaster for SF.


FF 279 (+12)
FG 255 (+20)
SF 81 (-78)
Lab 57 (+6)
Greens 49 (+37)
SD 19 (new)
Sol-PBP 11 (-17)
I4C 3 (new)
WP 1 (nc)
Aontu 3 (new)
Renua 1 (new)
Others 3 (-1)
Independents 187 (-6)

Sheeps

Social Democrats best new party, and rightfully so.

retalivity

1 Renua councillor.

Danzy

That is some **** up for SF.

L1011

First time anyone has won anything running as Renua, which I thought might never happen. Easy enough to fund a campaign when you have state funding for the 2% vote from '16 and only one serious candidate!

SF have lost almost as many councillors as Labour did in 2014 which lead to a leadship change. S/PBP have lost as many or more % wise!

For Forks Sake

retalivity wrote: »

1 Renua councillor.

John Leahy in Offaly, he was already a councillor. Apparently more a personal than a party vote.

NIMAN

Danzy wrote: »

That is some **** up for SF.

Major autopsy needed.

Danzy

NIMAN wrote: »

Major autopsy needed.

They need to get outsiders to do it, same will not deliver.

Much of it will be uncomfortable.

retalivity

Danzy wrote: »

They need to get outsiders to do it, same will not deliver.

Much of it will be uncomfortable.

Fan of Netflix

Thats an unbelievable loss for Sinn Fein, considering they weren't in government.

Dirkziggler

Mary Lou is looking at the axe. Matt Carthy interview was candid regarding leadership taking a hit. This is absolutely catastrophic and I'd be worried if I was a potential SF TD

Fan of Netflix

It's a pretty terrible result for Labour, especially outside Dublin.

Fan of Netflix

Dirkziggler wrote: »

Mary Lou is looking at the axe. Matt Carthy interview was candid regarding leadership taking a hit. This is absolutely catastrophic and I'd be worried if I was a potential SF TD

Who would you replace Mary Lou with? Needs to be someone from the South, I think also a man. Pearse would be favourite. Jonathan O'Brien maybe.

Heraldoffreeent

Danzy wrote: »

They need to get outsiders to do it, same will not deliver.

Much of it will be uncomfortable.

Can't they use the Nutting Squad?

Dirkziggler

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Who would you replace Mary Lou with? Needs to be someone from the South, I think also a man. Pearse would be favourite. Jonathan O'Brien maybe.

Never gonna be JOB, Pearse or Declan

Fan of Netflix

Dirkziggler wrote: »

Never gonna be JOB, Pearse or Declan

Michelle O'Neill needs to go too could have Kearney deputy. I like Finucane the new Belfast mayor but hes not experienced enough yet.

NIMAN

As much as I'm not a fan of listening to Mary Lou, Michelle O'Neill takes it to another level.

An absolute dose to listen to. Always sounds angry, harsh, aggressive. What was Martin thinking recommending her for the top job in the North?

AndrewJRenko

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Thats an unbelievable loss for Sinn Fein, considering they weren't in government.

They were the largest party on Dublin City Council. Maybe their voters worked out that objecting to everything only gets you so far. They failed to deliver housing.

Matt Barrett

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Do you think FG bringing FF to prominence after having us 'practically eating out of bins' played a small part? I do.
I'll leave you to your blather. You seemed to understand my comment well enough to respond.

You've said this eating out of bins thing a few times, what the hell are you talking about?

Do you really think FF, the party who have been the largest in the State for its entire history up to the 2011 election, need help with their profile? Bizarre stuff.


Otherwise, It has been wonderful to see SF and PBP decimated in the locals.

markodaly

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Do you think FG bringing FF to prominence after having us 'practically eating out of bins' played a small part? I do.
I'll leave you to your blather. You seemed to understand my comment well enough to respond.

Again, you repeat the same point about bringing FF to prominence.
What do you actually mean by this?

When you answer, bear in mind that FF since the 1930's has dominated Irish politics. They are not blow ins, far from it in fact. So the prominence issue is nonsense.

If you actually want to point fingers at the rise of FF, look no further than SF and the rabble of the Looney Left, who have been decimated in this election.

It appears from the Local elections and the Euro elections that the public has voted to replace the opposition.

SirGerryAdams

My local council area had a SF councillor, by all means they were prominent and active in the community etc. and usually people vote for local reasons rather than political reasons and they came near the bottom. I was very surprised.

expectationlost

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

They were the largest party on Dublin City Council. Maybe their voters worked out that objecting to everything only gets you so far. They failed to deliver housing.

did the council have the staff and resources to deliver housing?

maccored

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Thats an unbelievable loss for Sinn Fein, considering they weren't in government.

not really. they hoovered up the unhappy FF voters the last time. this time the same voters went back to FF (standard Irish voting technique). Quite healthy for SF in fact.

L1011

maccored wrote: »

not really. they hoovered up the unhappy FF voters the last time. this time the same voters went back to FF (standard Irish voting technique). Quite healthy for SF in fact.

UK Labour have just expelled their best spin doctor if you're looking for a job...


This election is an absolute disaster for SF. FF have not made the gains to tie up with what you suggest. The protest vote has evaporated instead.

SirGerryAdams

Do you think people have "felt the recovery" more than is made out?

markodaly

As predicted by some, we have reached peak SF as a political force, at least this side of a major social or economic event.
In the short term, SF will be fighting it out to try and stay be the biggest party outside of the big two and trying to keep the SD's, Greens and Labour at bay. Quite a turn as some thought they would be bigger than FF by the next GE...!

Im surprised Labour did so poorly but their brand has been destroyed and it will be a while yet before they can get back. They also have an image problem. Full of backroom old men, good at doing 'deals' with Unions and the like but totally removed from the public. That is where the SD's and Greens have stolen a march on them. The SD's are really Labour without the baggage.

Greens are interesting. Its more of a movement than a party and that is very very irresistible for people not to buy into, especially the young. But they will need to focus on actual practical green issues, like bike lanes, public transport, sensible development, EV's, single use plastic... Stuff like that. They could be what Ireland needs like what the PD's gave us in the 80's and 90's. Some common sense policies from the continent rather than the same ol same ol we have had for decades. E.g. they should be for a sensible high rises in Dublin, sensible water charges...etc.. Also, they need to go easy on the social justice stuff if they want to capture more of the centre ground, as they could be a major force in Irish politics in the coming decades. If they go down the PBP-SOL route of megaphone angry politics then they won't get anywhere fast.

Which brings me to PBP-SOL. Is anyone surprised really? People get tired at being heckled at, and that is all they are good for. Clare Daly saw the writing on the wall years ago and jumped, and she is jumping again. The Paul Murphy, RBP brigade need to put down their megaphone and reevaluate their message and world view, but they won't do that, as its all, FIGHT DA MAN stuff from them. Teenager angst stuff from them.

Food for thought for FF and FG, there is good and bad for both. I would not be surprised if we go to 2021 for an election, as neither of them really want it. After that though, do we really need ANOTHER minority government.

SirGerryAdams

I just can't take Labour seriously with Howlin at the helm. Seeing him criticise the government for things that they went with themselves when in power.

Like that VAT increase for supplements...I saw Howlin on an ad on facebook complaining it'll cost jobs etc. If he was in with FG they'd be at the same thing!

Fan of Netflix

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

They were the largest party on Dublin City Council. Maybe their voters worked out that objecting to everything only gets you so far. They failed to deliver housing.

But they lost seats absolutely everywhere. In fact they had an even worse time outside Dublin. In all fairness, FF/FG/Lab were objecting to planning far more than Sinn Fein, and much of it comes down to the department. The councillors really have very limited powers, it's not up to them to deliver housing. That is Fine Gael and the city managers, council chiefs etc.

Fan of Netflix

maccored wrote: »

not really. they hoovered up the unhappy FF voters the last time. this time the same voters went back to FF (standard Irish voting technique). Quite healthy for SF in fact.

Lol losing half your seats is "quite healthy" ?? Totally absurd stuff.

Fan of Netflix

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Do you think people have "felt the recovery" more than is made out?

No but I think many Sinn Fein and PBP voters didn't bother voting. Turnout down and especially in working class and young voters. A lot of voters weren't bothered according to their canvassers. And realistically councillors have extremely limited powers and none in regard to the economy.

Zubeneschamali

markodaly wrote: »

The SD's are really Labour without the baggage.

I fully expect the SDP to merge with Labour in five years or so. Looking at the history:

In 1944, the National Labour Party split from Labour, and in 1950 they merged again.

In 1977, the Socialist Labour Party split off and died.

In the late 80s, Labour expelled various people (like Clare Daly), and Joe Higgins went off to form the Socialist Party.

In 1990, the Democratic Socialist party of Jim Kemmy merged with Labour (Kemmy quit Labour back in 1972). In 1992 they merged with the Independent Socialist Party of Declan Bree (who later quit in 2007).

In 1999 they merged with Democratic Left (a split from the Workers party, itself originally official Sinn Féin).

And know we have the SDP - Shortall is ex-Labour, and Murphy was in the Workers Party, Democratic Left and Labour.

They are not really new, it is just the same people on the left changing labels and feuding with each other.

Fan of Netflix

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I fully expect the SDP to merge with Labour in five years or so. Looking at the history:

In 1944, the National Labour Party split from Labour, and in 1950 they merged again.

In 1977, the Socialist Labour Party split off and died.

In the late 80s, Labour expelled various people (like Clare Daly), and Joe Higgins went off to form the Socialist Party.

In 1990, the Democratic Socialist party of Jim Kemmy merged with Labour (Kemmy quit Labour back in 1972). In 1992 they merged with the Independent Socialist Party of Declan Bree (who later quit in 2007).

In 1999 they merged with Democratic Left (a split from the Workers party, itself originally official Sinn Féin).

And know we have the SDP - Shortall is ex-Labour, and Murphy was in the Workers Party, Democratic Left and Labour.

They are not really new, it is just the same people on the left changing labels and feuding with each other.

I doubt Shortall or Catherine Murphy would go back with the Labour Party and I wouldn't blame them. Labour are going nowhere and stand for nothing.

Zubeneschamali

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

My local council area had a SF councillor, by all means they were prominent and active in the community etc. and usually people vote for local reasons rather than political reasons and they came near the bottom.

We had an ex-SF councillor who ran as an Independent after quitting the party over bullying. SF ran a new candidate, and Aontú ran one, too.


1st preferences, the 3 between them had 962 votes, which would have given them a seat. But they split it 3 ways, and let a Green candidate in. SF got no seat.

Zubeneschamali

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

I doubt Shortall or Catherine Murphy would go back with the Labour Party and I wouldn't blame them. Labour are going nowhere and stand for nothing.

Give it 5 years.


In some of those split/merges in history, they had to wait for someone to die before rejoining.

AndrewJRenko

expectationlost wrote: »

did the council have the staff and resources to deliver housing?

Isn't most of it outsourced to the Approved Housing Bodies these days?

And did they do anything to prioritise staff and resources for housing?

L1011

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

I doubt Shortall or Catherine Murphy would go back with the Labour Party and I wouldn't blame them. Labour are going nowhere and stand for nothing.

If they fail to get 2% nationally at a GE - plausible without Donnelly and halo votes he brought in - finances may force it as it did for DL

Fan of Netflix

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

We had an ex-SF councillor who ran as an Independent after quitting the party over bullying. SF ran a new candidate, and Aontú ran one, too.


1st preferences, the 3 between them had 962 votes, which would have given them a seat. But they split it 3 ways, and let a Green candidate in. SF got no seat.

Stuff like that happened all over the country. Independent ex Sinn Fein candidates and Aontu candidates split the vote with SF. I believe actually 8 or more SF candidates elected in 2014 were re elected as Indos this time, took the vote with them. If those councillors and Toibin were treated with respect by SF it wouldn't have happened. Buck stops with them.

Fan of Netflix

L1011 wrote: »

If they fail to get 2% nationally at a GE - plausible without Donnelly and halo votes he brought in - finances may force it as it did for DL

I believe Catherine Murphy hates Labour since she quit years ago in some fall out? No doubt if the finances make sense the councillors and Gannon etc would merge.

L1011

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

I believe Catherine Murphy hates Labour since she quit years ago in some fall out? No doubt if the finances make sense the councillors and Gannon etc would merge.

Basically. Each side will give different reasons for the fallout and I'd be absolutely certain the answer is somewhere in between. Shortall wouldn't be that much in love with the party either.

Murphy and Shortall are both 65 and will eventually retire; that could be 15 years away though.

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Stuff like that happened all over the country. Independent ex Sinn Fein candidates and Aontu candidates split the vote with SF. I believe actually 8 or more SF candidates elected in 2014 were re elected as Indos this time, took the vote with them. If those councillors and Toibin were treated with respect by SF it wouldn't have happened. Buck stops with them.

Some of those candidates may have failed to be elected with the SF banner instead though.

That said, a more general thing that if the bullying scandal and split hadn't happened its likely the damage would have been a lot lower is definitely the case. Cumulative problems

maccored

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Lol losing half your seats is "quite healthy" ?? Totally absurd stuff.

damn right its healthy. the herd was culled and the voters who were only voting SF because they didnt want (at the time) to vote FF, went back to voting FF. If you cant see how thats healthy, well, thats your own issue im afraid.

maccored

L1011 wrote: »

UK Labour have just expelled their best spin doctor if you're looking for a job...


This election is an absolute disaster for SF. FF have not made the gains to tie up with what you suggest. The protest vote has evaporated instead.

i have a job thanks. FF have gained seats - as have the greens and others. the votes have to go somewhere - they dont evaporate into thin air bar low turnouts. looks like the only people not whinging about SF losing votes are SF

L1011

Quite a lot of votes were clearly shed to ex-SF and Aontu candidates. Trying to claim its all gone to FF is delusional and trying to spin your worst election in a decade and a half as a good thing is even more so.

Danzy

L1011 wrote: »

Quite a lot of votes were clearly shed to ex-SF and Aontu candidates. Trying to claim its all gone to FF is delusional and trying to spin your worst election in a decade and a half as a good thing is even more so.

The only party that had a great election was the Greens, FG had a good election, FF will be disappointed, no Mep in MNW and the % they got there is a big story for them, a few more cllrs and 26% of the vote will not make up for that, 26% remains a long way down from 15 years ago. It has been a disaster for SF.

FF look like being locked in as 2nd fiddle to FG at a State level, SF look like they are at risk of becoming a glorified Labour party.

ilkhanid

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

"Politics is show business for ugly people" :pac::pac:

I presume Kate O'Connell would be the exception to that.

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Just missing a photo of Team Lowry.

Gombeen politics making a roaring come back in Ireland. It's truly depressing.

Not to mention the re-election of Hugh McElveny as an independent (for the tenth time!)

James Brown

Manuel Sharp Thinker wrote: »

You've said this eating out of bins thing a few times, what the hell are you talking about?

A FG personal driver was posted to the board of Irish Water and in reference to the last FF government stated:

Mr Quinlan added: “You tell me one party out there who doesn’t look after their own. I don’t see anything wrong with it. It’s politics.” He asked why there isn’t more of a focus on the economy. “We were all nearly eating out of bins three years ago.”
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-water-director-hired-as-personal-driver-by-minister-1.1945863

So it's important to cite were appropriate when discussing the buddy buddy relationship both parties currently enjoy.

Manuel Sharp Thinker wrote: »

Do you really think FF, the party who have been the largest in the State for its entire history up to the 2011 election, need help with their profile? Bizarre stuff.

This makes no sense. Do you think party support is static or it rises and falls? And if your party was at the helm when the country went through a fiscal meltdown, you wouldn't benefit from the government of the day bringing you into a power sharing partnership of sorts? This wouldn't give a much needed raise to your profile? To be clear, getting back to the original comment about SF assisting FF, it's more on FG IMO. SF weren't in government and SF didn't bring FF from the cheap seats to the power table.

Manuel Sharp Thinker wrote: »

Otherwise, It has been wonderful to see SF and PBP decimated in the locals.

Ah, rant understood.
Just to add, SF lost a lot of support and that's tough for SF. Trying to put the rise in popularity of FF on them is baloney. FG brought FF back from the dead, certainly put them back in the spotlight. They went from party who ruined the country to 'opposition' party with the governments ear.

James Brown

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I fully expect the SDP to merge with Labour in five years or so. Looking at the history:

In 1944, the National Labour Party split from Labour, and in 1950 they merged again.

In 1977, the Socialist Labour Party split off and died.

In the late 80s, Labour expelled various people (like Clare Daly), and Joe Higgins went off to form the Socialist Party.

In 1990, the Democratic Socialist party of Jim Kemmy merged with Labour (Kemmy quit Labour back in 1972). In 1992 they merged with the Independent Socialist Party of Declan Bree (who later quit in 2007).

In 1999 they merged with Democratic Left (a split from the Workers party, itself originally official Sinn Féin).

And know we have the SDP - Shortall is ex-Labour, and Murphy was in the Workers Party, Democratic Left and Labour.

They are not really new, it is just the same people on the left changing labels and feuding with each other.

Labour needs a rebuild from the top down. The grassroots are used as pawns. It's too top lead for a supposed socialist leaning party. You've career politicians coming out of university and joining HQ to tell people in working class areas what's going to happen next with their party and who they'll be parachuting in to run in their area. That needs to stop.

Danzy

Matt Barrett wrote: »

tell people in working class areas what's going to happen next with their party and who they'll be parachuting in to run in their area.

Along the same line that delivered SF an electoral battering.

Fan of Netflix

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Labour needs a rebuild from the top down. The grassroots are used as pawns. It's too top lead for a supposed socialist leaning party. You've career politicians coming out of university and joining HQ to tell people in working class areas what's going to happen next with their party and who they'll be parachuting in to run in their area. That needs to stop.

Happens in Sinn Fein too