Local Elections 2019

AndrewJRenko

josip wrote: »

I know it's easier with hindsight, but isn't this the job of the party vote management people?

What 'party vote management people'? It is a tiny operation with no Malcolm Tuckers and no private opinion polls, I guess . All new, first time candidates - it would have been a huge risk to run extra candidates - could well have lost everything.

Sparko

PCX wrote: »

It is interesting. I found the facebook post where she has said that she intends taking both seats and presumably having two votes on the council. If that is allowed then there is no reason why an individual or party candidate could not stand in all of the areas for a council and take a seat in each i.e. one councillor with 6+ votes.

If she does take one of the seats and not the other then the votes of the people who voted for her in the second ward are lost and not passed down to their next preference candidate. If she gets to nominate a person who did not stand in the election then we are effectively introducing a party list system by the back door - no reason why large parties couldn't do the same thing. If the council as a whole decides who takes the seat then it benefits FF or FG.

I just think that it is an abuse of the principle of the STV system that we have. I'll be interested to see how this all pans out.

She has officially won the two seats now. Apparently considering a legal challenge to ensure she can hold both seats according to this article..

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2019/05/27/4174748-keogan-becomes-first-woman-in-ireland-elected-to-two-electoral-areas/

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

FF will come back because SF wasted their chance. SF will then learn and come back when FF waste their chance. That's generally the way things work in our conservative politics. I used to give Sinn Féin a high preference in the 1990s when the Sunday Independent and all O'Reilly's rags launched their acerbic attacks on John Hume and the Peace Process. I also gave similarly strategic high preferences to FF under Reynolds for precisely the same reason. The fact that at the same time the Blueshirts were led by John Unionist and Avril Doyle was telling us that "the Famine was a shared experience between the British and Irish peoples" ensured SF would always get a high preference under a PR-STV system (i.e. my SF transfer would get the marginal FF candidate elected into the final seat - and he'd know where that transfer came from so would want to keep it).

However, despite Sinn Féin being the largest party on Dublin City Council they refused to change the title from the royalist 'Lord Mayor' addition back to its original, medieval 'Mayor' title. A simple, symbolic thing that many of us who voted for it in hope in the 1990s were watching. Just how many Irish republicans died so that Sinn Féin could celebrate having a "Lord Mayor" of Dublin? In actual power in Dublin, they just took the soup when it came to republicanism. Not a single British royalist streetname in Dublin renamed either after heroes of the Irish tradition. No different to the Blueshirts or Fianna Fáil (both of which kept a wigged judiciary going in this state until the past 10 years). Let's not kid ourselves here.

The reduction in building standards and apartment sizes in Dublin is more of the same. In this context, their criticisms of other parties for the housing crisis is just offensive to our intelligence. It all doesn't help that the uncouth, cultureless ruffians who often speak for it consider anybody paying marginal tax rates of 55% as being "rich". It's possible to be Irish republican, acutely feel our country's history and traditions, be left-of-centre, love Irish and Irish culture and pay high tax so politically SF would have been smarter to get a better definition of "rich".

I think FG have more to do with FF advancing than a poor show from SF.
SF not changing street names never crossed my mind TBH.

You're actually explaining a lot here. People putting lack of change and bad government policy on SF, even though they've no power is why they've done so bad. Criticising policies never enacted as somehow less appetising than the non functioning ones brought in by FG and supported by FF.
Somehow we let FG off the hook to an extent by blaming the opposition, for what I'm not quite sure. The only opposition with any power are FF, and they did better that FG.
I would suggest the average voter needs to cop themselves on as they seem to be discontented with FG, but willing to support FF who in turn support FG. I can see the Green vote as something FF/FG will absorb by stealing some policies from the Greens. That is the nature of FF/FG and that's how they persist despite their incompetence, willful or otherwise.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I think FG have more to do with FF advancing than a poor show from SF.
SF not changing street names never crossed my mind TBH.

You're actually explaining a lot here. People putting lack of change and bad government policy on SF, even though they've no power is why they've done so bad. Criticising policies never enacted as somehow less appetising than the non functioning ones brought in by FG and supported by FF.
Somehow we let FG off the hook to an extent by blaming the opposition, for what I'm not quite sure. The only opposition with any power are FF, and they did better that FG.
I would suggest the average voter needs to cop themselves on as they seem to be discontented with FG, but willing to support FF who in turn support FG. I can see the Green vote as something FF/FG will absorb by stealing some policies from the Greens. That is the nature of FF/FG and that's how they persist despite their incompetence, willful or otherwise.

SF voters went two directions in this poll - FF and Aontu.

What FG have to do with that is beyond me.

Fan of Netflix

blanch152 wrote: »

SF voters went two directions in this poll - FF and Aontu.

What FG have to do with that is beyond me.

Exactly, and I think Sinn Feiners trying to claim their voters voted for the Greens is laughable tbh.

Squatter

Final party count for the 4 Dublin councils: FG 36, FF 34, Ind 29, Green 25, Lab 22, SF 18, SD 9, Sol/PBP 8, I4C 2.

(John Kilraine, RTE tweet)

blanch152

Squatter wrote: »

Final party count for the 4 Dublin councils: FG 36, FF 34, Ind 29, Green 25, Lab 22, SF 18, SD 9, Sol/PBP 8, I4C 2.

(John Kilraine, RTE tweet)

Just saw that. Now that is some collapse by Sinn Fein, from biggest party in Dublin to fifth biggest party, and also behind independents. A huge story from this election.

blanch152

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Just missing a photo of Team Lowry.

Gombeen politics making a roaring come back in Ireland. It's truly depressing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/louth-county-council-fianna-f%C3%A1il-big-winners-as-sinn-f%C3%A9in-loses-three-seats-1.3890461

This is even worse. Councillor McGeough, the man who turned a blind eye and refused to help child abuse victims got over 1,000 votes in the election. Some people have no empathy.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

SF voters went two directions in this poll - FF and Aontu.

What FG have to do with that is beyond me.

You misunderstood(?). I'll clarify, the idea was put forward that SF lost support because they were poor opposition and FF benefited from that.
I disagreed and suggest FG have more to do with the rise in FF popularity than SF.

Now I've no idea why you seem to be disagreeing with a comment that isn't there quite frankly.
FG bolstered, made viable FF, not a poor performance by SF IMO.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/louth-county-council-fianna-f%C3%A1il-big-winners-as-sinn-f%C3%A9in-loses-three-seats-1.3890461

This is even worse. Councillor McGeough, the man who turned a blind eye and refused to help child abuse victims got over 1,000 votes in the election. Some people have no empathy.

Did Noonan no harm either.

And this former FG councillor...

Councillor who told undercover reporter he wanted 'loads of money' is re-elected
https://www.thejournal.ie/hugh-mcelvaney-elected-4652168-May2019/

I'm sure he fixed a pothole or two.

gmisk

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Did Noonan no harm either.

And this former FG councillor...



I'm sure he fixed a pothole or two.

That is maybe partially more to do with the lack of competition? 5 seats and only 6 on the ballot

is_that_so

I see Wicklow is going to keep on with the fun tomorrow!

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You misunderstood(?). I'll clarify, the idea was put forward that SF lost support because they were poor opposition and FF benefited from that.
I disagreed and suggest FG have more to do with the rise in FF popularity than SF.

Now I've no idea why you seem to be disagreeing with a comment that isn't there quite frankly.
FG bolstered, made viable FF, not a poor performance by SF IMO.

The rise in Aontu votes and FF votes equals the fall in Sinn Fein votes, so it is clear what happened. SF lost support because they were poor in many ways, and the vote went to FF and Aontu. That is the explanation for what happened.

Trying to blame FG for this is laughable, especially when FG's vote went up in the locals.

Galwayguy35

keane2097 wrote: »

OK?

Personally I find it hard to see how Green Party local councillors and/or MEPs will have any impact on the taxation of poor people but it's great to see the right wingers worried about them all of a sudden however incoherent their rationale is

Maybe you should be more worried about the dismal performance of the left in the election rather than concerning yourself about what the right is doing.

keane2097

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Maybe you should be more worried about the dismal performance of the left in the election rather than concerning yourself about what the right is doing.

Ok

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

The rise in Aontu votes and FF votes equals the fall in Sinn Fein votes, so it is clear what happened. SF lost support because they were poor in many ways, and the vote went to FF and Aontu. That is the explanation for what happened.

Trying to blame FG for this is laughable, especially when FG's vote went up in the locals.

While it's possible some support from SF transferred to FF, (but we don't know as the Indies did pretty well out of this not to mention your alleged party the greens), no party did more to secure FF viability on the political scene than FG, putting them in a power position despite having us 'practically eating out of bins'. FG raised the profile of FF over the past many years, not SF. SF would be guilty of losing votes, the idea they promoted FF is what's laughable.

Squatter

Can any intelligent poster explain to me how in the name of f**k Longford, with a total population of only 40,000, still hasn't managed to complete the count for the local elections?

Does the local Returning Officer recruit half wits to do the counting as a a cost-saving initiative?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/longford-county-council-counting-process-enters-third-day-1.3890459

Sierra Oscar

So it turns out the Labour Party actually ended up with more first preference votes than the Green Party. The exit poll was an absolute shambles.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

While it's possible some support from SF transferred to FF, (but we don't know as the Indies did pretty well out of this not to mention your alleged party the greens), no party did more to secure FF viability on the political scene than FG, putting them in a power position despite having us 'practically eating out of bins'. FG raised the profile of FF over the past many years, not SF. SF would be guilty of losing votes, the idea they promoted FF is what's laughable.

Sinn Fein' failure to offer a single constructive contribution to Irish society over the last decade is part of the reason why they failed.

I really don't understand how a 1.5% increase in the FF vote is the fault of a 1.2% rise in the FG vote. No logic to that at all.

Squatter

blanch152 wrote: »

Sinn Fein' failure to offer a single constructive contribution to Irish society over the last decade is part of the reason why they failed.

I really don't understand how a 1.5% increase in the FF vote is the fault of a 1.2% rise in the FG vote. No logic to that at all.

Matt doesn't do logic.

blanch152

Squatter wrote: »

Matt doesn't do logic.

I see that up until the current count (14th), Andrews has got more transfers than Boylan. I assume that somehow that is also the fault of FG.

What baffles me is how FG are also responsible for the rise of the Greens.

L1011

Squatter wrote: »

Does the local Returning Officer recruit half wits to do the counting as a a cost-saving initiative?

Longford historically had the highest rate of people who didn't finish secondary school (although it has improved to 4th highest)...

Squatter

blanch152 wrote: »

I see that up until the current count (14th), Andrews has got more transfers than Boylan. I assume that somehow that is also the fault of FG.

What baffles me is how FG are also responsible for the rise of the Greens.

Go easy now, he's still licking his wounds over the failure of the gummy bear!

Snow Garden

Squatter wrote: »

Can any intelligent poster explain to me how in the name of f**k Longford, with a total population of only 40,000, still hasn't managed to complete the count for the local elections?

Does the local Returning Officer recruit half wits to do the counting as a a cost-saving initiative?

They are all on expenses!

SirGerryAdams

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

So it turns out the Labour Party actually ended up with more first preference votes than the Green Party. The exit poll was an absolute shambles.

The Labour Wave ™

AndrewJRenko

Snow Garden wrote: »

They are all on expenses!

So you reckon it's all about the €14 that they get to cover meals for the ten hour shift?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Sinn Fein' failure to offer a single constructive contribution to Irish society over the last decade is part of the reason why they failed.

I really don't understand how a 1.5% increase in the FF vote is the fault of a 1.2% rise in the FG vote. No logic to that at all.

Did I even mention why I think SF lost votes? You're writing your own story here.

To make it as clear as I can for you, I am not talking on why SF lost votes. I am stating that SF are unlikely to be the reason FF have gained more support IMO.
I am also not saying how many FG votes transferred to FF, that's your false misunderstanding of a plain point I've now repeated 3 times but you can't seem to comprehend.

Here we go;
You cannot credit SF losing votes to the rise in support for Fianna Fail.
So far so good?

If you're looking to assign blame for that I'd look to FG for bringing them to the table and raising their profile.
Raising the FF profile, with me?

Now if you have proof every former SF voter decided to vote FF, that still doesn't put FF's rise in popularity on SF. You are looking to blame SF on the rise in support for FF, this is convenient for Fine Gael alright, but complete codology. FG has FF in the news week in week out and in a power position not SF, not PBP, not the Greens.

I would have thought you'd be more interested in the Greens news than deflecting for FG?

blanch152 wrote: »

I see that up until the current count (14th), Andrews has got more transfers than Boylan. I assume that somehow that is also the fault of FG.

What baffles me is how FG are also responsible for the rise of the Greens.

You are disagreeing with yourself there Blanch. Pathetic rhetoric off you.

markodaly

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If you're looking to assign blame for that I'd look to FG for bringing them to the table and raising their profile.

What are you blathering about? Raising the profile of FF?

Need I remind you of the history of FF, they are the most successful political parties not just in Ireland but also in Europe.

FF in the local elections increased their vote by 1.4%. Not exactly a surge, is it?
FG increased their share by 1.3% by the way.

It seems the centrist parties have done well in this election and Greens would be one of those.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

What are you blathering about? Raising the profile of FF?

Need I remind you of the history of FF, they are the most successful political parties not just in Ireland but also in Europe.

FF in the local elections increased their vote by 1.4%. Not exactly a surge, is it?
FG increased their share by 1.3% by the way.

It seems the centrist parties have done well in this election and Greens would be one of those.

Do you think FG bringing FF to prominence after having us 'practically eating out of bins' played a small part? I do.
I'll leave you to your blather. You seemed to understand my comment well enough to respond.

Fan of Netflix

How are they still counting in Longford? 4 seats to play for in one area I heard there on radio? Something seriously wrong there if it goes to nearly 5 days counting a few thousand votes