Local Elections 2019

Blueshoe

shanec1928 wrote: »

joe queenan 11% second after the first tally

Christ almighty. Some people's vote should count less than others.

Sierra Oscar

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Sinn Fein's collapse is hard to read for me, is it the fall out of no grizzled hard men at the top? Has it alienated the aging traditionalists while not getting in new votes who this time have gone to the Greens?

Sinn Féin haven't really been getting much coverage of note under Mary Lou's leadership. They've lost their voice to some extent.

At local level they have been having a horrid time with bullying accusations and general organizational strife. A whole raft of their new first time candidates elected in 2014 have left the party since then. They haven't been able to replace those candidates.

Blueshoe

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Rte on their website are saying the three look like they'll get elected.

https://www.rte.ie/news/elections-2019/2019/0525/1051677-prime-time-councillors/

A sad day for democracy

Sierra Oscar

Also while it's positive to see the Green Party doing well, I would be cautious to read into it too much when it comes to trying to predict a General Election outcome.

First off the local and European elections are second order elections. There was pretty much no actual discussion regarding policies and their impact during these elections. That won't be the case during a General Election. A lot of people who voted Green now might not be as happy to do so when they realise the impact of some of their policies when it comes to their own wallets. If there is any sense of an economic downturn on the horizon it could change peoples attitudes entirely. You're also likely to see the main parties put a big focus on climate and sustainable development issues (including housing) during the General Election campaign.

Itssoeasy

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Sinn Féin haven't really been getting much coverage of note under Mary Lou's leadership. They've lost their voice to some extent.

At local level they have been having a horrid time with bullying accusations and general organizational strife. A whole raft of their new first time candidates elected in 2014 have left the party since then. They haven't been able to replace those candidates.

I think the prospect of Mary Lou becoming leader of SF was more optimistic than what the reality is.

Fan of Netflix

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Are you referring the Government's statutory gender quota, or does SF have a more rigorous version?

I'm referring to the Sinn Fein policy. Sinn Fein brought in a 50-50 split gender quota in a lot of areas where possible. It was another reason they lost several councillors and members. Was viewed as unfair on male candidates.

Fan of Netflix

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

Tally sheet from Ó Cearúil

Shocking result for Cronin. Shes one of the more active Shinners on twitter. Guess social media doesn't = votes.

Itssoeasy

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

I'm referring to the Sinn Fein policy. Sinn Fein brought in a 50-50 split gender quota in a lot of areas where possible. It was another reason they lost several councillors and members. Was viewed as unfair on male candidates.

I know of if happening in another party where during the selection convention where the directive from upon high was for one female and one male candidate and two male candidates got the top two highest votes and only one got put forward. I'm all for equality but it sounded very unfair.

c.p.w.g.w

Can I ask a stupid question.

Are the tallies the same as the count of first preferences? Or are the tallies just a sample count of each box? Reading different things and confused?

L1011

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Can I ask a stupid question.

Are the tallies the same as the count of first preferences? Or are the tallies just a sample count of each box? Reading different things and confused?

They're an unofficial count of first preferences done by watching the stack sorting

c.p.w.g.w

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I know of if happening in another party where during the selection convention where the directive from upon high was for one female and one male candidate and two male candidates got the top two highest votes and only one got put forward. I'm all for equality but it sounded very unfair.

It's not true equality...gender quotas are a backward ideology

devlinio

Howth - Malahide is my ward and it's such a joke. 7 seats with 9 candidates vying for them. So easy to get a seat.

L1011

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Shocking result for Cronin. Shes one of the more active Shinners on twitter. Guess social media doesn't = votes.

If she could have kept her campaign manager *off* social media it might have helped. Abrasive to say the least

bren2001

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Can I ask a stupid question.

Are the tallies the same as the count of first preferences? Or are the tallies just a sample count of each box? Reading different things and confused?

They should equate to the first preference votes. You've a number of people standing over each box marking down each ballot. Take several hours for the boxes to be counted and a few more for them to be inputted in a spread sheet. Typically, all the parties work together except SF. They work by themselves.

Fan of Netflix

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I know of if happening in another party where during the selection convention where the directive from upon high was for one female and one male candidate and two male candidates got the top two highest votes and only one got put forward. I'm all for equality but it sounded very unfair.

It's unfair IMO. The good female candidates get through on their own merits. Sinn Fein ended up with lots of very poor female candidates. Also noticeable SF doesn't have as many younger candidates as other parties especially left wing parties.

Harry Palmr

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Also while it's positive to see the Green Party doing well, I would be cautious to read into it too much when it comes to trying to predict a General Election outcome.

First off the local and European elections are second order elections. There was pretty much no actual discussion regarding policies and their impact during these elections. That won't be the case during a General Election. A lot of people who voted Green now might not be as happy to do so when they realise the impact of some of their policies when it comes to their own wallets. If there is any sense of an economic downturn on the horizon it could change peoples attitudes entirely. You're also likely to see the main parties put a big focus on climate and sustainable development issues (including housing) during the General Election campaign.

The Greens would, pragmatically, be happy enough with that level of success - forcing FF/FG to implement genuine environmentally sustainable policies. The public would have nowhere to run to for mé fein/laissez faire policies. Obviously one of the two would break ranks in all likelihood

Fan of Netflix

L1011 wrote: »

If she could have kept her campaign manager *off* social media it might have helped. Abrasive to say the least

Is her manager her sister by any chance?

L1011

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Is her manager her sister by any chance?

No. Don't want to name him in case it works like summoning Beetlejuice!

Aska

Anyword on young Lowry in tipp? Michaels son I assume, saw all the 'team Lowry' posters around the place down there

is_that_so

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Sinn Fein's collapse is hard to read for me, is it the fall out of no grizzled hard men at the top? Has it alienated the aging traditionalists while not getting in new votes who this time have gone to the Greens?

Tide has gone out on their brand of anti-everything. I'm sure they still retain a solid core vote but not the same anger to tap into 5 years on. Then there's all that internal stuff and people quitting.

is_that_so

Wicklow Tally is interesting.


https://twitter.com/ingridmileyRTE/status/1132355662401417221

Itssoeasy

I hope nobody here is playing the "sinn fein vote has collapsed" drinking game because I heard it three times in one news bulletin on RTÉ news now. Mary Lou McDonald will have some questions to answer as party leader I think.

Danzy

mugsymugsy wrote: »

Yeah reading the Anglo celt online the tallies seem to say SF could be wiped out of all Cavan council. Border county in theory should be their stomping ground

That screams out crisis but few will listen.

Inquitus

is_that_so wrote: »

Wicklow Tally is interesting.


https://twitter.com/ingridmileyRTE/status/1132355662401417221

Is that in reference to the Wicklow exit poll, or the national exit poll? Seems the exit poll is way off if the former.

AndrewJRenko

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

It's not true equality...gender quotas are a backward ideology

Except for the fact that they work to bring about improved gender balance over the course of a few elections

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

I'm referring to the Sinn Fein policy. Sinn Fein brought in a 50-50 split gender quota in a lot of areas where possible. It was another reason they lost several councillors and members. Was viewed as unfair on male candidates.

Here's details of the Government requirements, which impact party funding. Leo has stated that the 30% requirement will increase to 40% in the coming years.
https://content.sciendo.com/view/journals/admin/65/2/article-p15.xml

Blueshoe wrote: »

A sad day for democracy

Because the democratic process worked?


Didn't you say that it wouldn't make any difference anyway?

Blueshoe

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Except for the fact that they work to bring about improved gender balance over the course of a few elections





Here's details of the Government requirements, which impact party funding. Leo has stated that the 30% requirement will increase to 40% in the coming years.
https://content.sciendo.com/view/journals/admin/65/2/article-p15.xml



Because the democratic process worked?


Didn't you say that it wouldn't make any difference anyway?

You must have missed the videos.
Open to bribery.

Not that it matters to you since you are just here to argue with anyone and everyone

Gender quotas:
Quotas are against the principle of equal opportunity for all, since women are given preference over men.

Quotas are undemocratic, because voters should be able to decide who is elected.

Quotas imply that politicians are elected because of their gender, not because of their qualifications and that more qualified candidates are pushed aside.

Many women do not want to get elected just because they are women.

Introducing quotas creates significant conflicts within the party organization.

Quotas violate the principles of liberal democracy.

Fan of Netflix

L1011 wrote: »

No. Don't want to name him in case it works like summoning Beetlejuice!

Cronin is exactly the type of person that cost Sinn Fein, divisive and always stirring it on twitter. If they are to recover they need to change. They seem to be losing seats everywhere.

Itssoeasy

Nothing from cork city yet.

c.p.w.g.w

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Except for the fact that they work to bring about improved gender balance over the course of a few elections





Here's details of the Government requirements, which impact party funding. Leo has stated that the 30% requirement will increase to 40% in the coming years.
https://content.sciendo.com/view/journals/admin/65/2/article-p15.xml



Because the democratic process worked?


Didn't you say that it wouldn't make any difference anyway?

So are we going to do this for nursing too? Or Bin collecters? True gender equality for each role and job in society is an unrealistic pipe dream and is only going to embolden the fringes of both the right & left alike

AndrewJRenko

Blueshoe wrote: »

You must have missed the videos.
Open to bribery.

Not that it matters to you since you are just here to argue with anyone and everyone

Gender quotas:
Quotas are against the principle of equal opportunity for all, since women are given preference over men.

Quotas are undemocratic, because voters should be able to decide who is elected.

Quotas imply that politicians are elected because of their gender, not because of their qualifications and that more qualified candidates are pushed aside.

Many women do not want to get elected just because they are women.

Introducing quotas creates significant conflicts within the party organization.

Quotas violate the principles of liberal democracy.

What videos are you talking about?


But if you're going to quote from another site, you really should reference that site. Here's the 'Pro' list from the site where you found the 'Con' list that you copied above;


https://www.idea.int/data-tools/data/gender-quotas/quotas

Pros

• Quotas for women do not discriminate, but compensate for actual barriers that prevent women from their fair share of the political seats.
• Quotas imply that there are several women together in a committee or assembly, thus minimizing the stress often experienced by the token women.
• Women have the right as citizens to equal representation.
• Women's experiences are needed in political life.
• Election is about representation, not educational qualifications.
• Women are just as qualified as men, but women's qualifications are downgraded and minimized in a male-dominated political system.
• It is in fact the political parties that control the nominations, not primarily the voters who decide who gets elected; therefore quotas are not violations of voters' rights.
• Introducing quotas may cause conflicts, but may be only temporarily.
• Quotas can contribute to a process of democratisation by making the nomination process more transparent and formalised.

I actually didn't like the ideas of quotas myself, until I looked the evidence showing that the actually work, and they're the only thing that actually works to improve gender balance of public representatives.